[JohnV]

To me the biggest surprise is that Marv French who is one of the owners of Pumpkin Ridge was added to the rating group the same year that both courses dropped off the list.  I always thought he had more pull than that.  But, we'll see if they are back next time.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

What really surprised me was some of the comments Pete Dye made after I gave him a copy of the magazine Yesterday.  He was at The Ocean Course waiting for our owner to show up to discuss some of the work that is going on there.  It would have really turned some heads on this discussion group -- especially some of his comments of his own work on the list and some of his views of the courses at and near the top of the lists!!!

[Jim_Michaels]

pray tell. you gotta give us something

[ChasLawler]

Mike Vegis,

Is Bill Goodwin still involved with Kiawah, and if so, does he have any input regarding the golf courses?

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Mike Vegis,

Is Bill Goodwin still involved with Kiawah, and if so, does he have any input regarding the golf courses?

Yes (he owns the resort) and YES!!! on the second question...

[Scott_Burroughs]

Hurricane,

Just because raters (they prefer panelists) are not welcome as a guest of the club does not mean that they have not played the course as guests of members (either knowingly by the member or not).   A good number of the panelists here play courses as guests of members, never identifying themselves as panelists to the club.  How do you think those courses on the Top 100 lists that refuse panelists get rated?

[Jim Franklin]

Scott -

I know "panelists" play courses even if they are not allowed without a member; I thought your initial response had said because Whitten played there they would allow other panelists to play.

[Scott_Burroughs]

I just meant it would be exposure/incentive to get there by any means to a course few (outside GCA.com and Long Island) had heard of.

[Jim Franklin]

Thanks for the clarification and I do agree panelists will definitely be making an effort to get on FH.

[Jim Franklin]

I just received my Golf Magazine issue and the biggest surprise to me was how few  raters they have. How in the world do they expect to rate all of those courses? A place like Kingsley probably saw 2 raters if that many. While the GM panelists may be "in the golf business", I prefer the GD way and assign courses to their legion of panelists. They may not be professionals, but, for the most part, they appreciate the game of golf.

I was also surprised at how low the architects rated Pac Dunes while the rest of the group rated it very high. I am still surprised that Shadow Creek continues to drop. It is an architectural marvel IMHO.

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