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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: The Six Continent Club
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2014, 05:31:48 PM »
Tom, that is most certainly NOT the case...Bobby's operation is bobby and Bruce and for a while, Jay.  

That's his operation now that there is no work.  He had two or three more associates back when it was busy -- Don Knott for example.  Of course, I have associates, too, so that doesn't prove much.

I did not "insinuate" anything about Bobby.  I've known him for 25 years, but not well; we run in much different circles.  I did ask a couple of questions about his work in South America -- since you used South America in your hypothetical example -- and got two very different answers!  

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Six Continent Club
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2014, 05:35:58 PM »
Tom, that is most certainly NOT the case...Bobby's operation is bobby and Bruce and for a while, Jay.  Jack and tom have huge teams of design associates. And he spends loads of hours on the sites...far more than you insinuate in your reply.  He is as diligent and dedicated as you are.  He's not a wave and fly guy at all.  

Jay - you forgot to mention Mark Voss, Mike Gorman and Mike Kahler....
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Randy Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Six Continent Club
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2014, 05:44:56 PM »
Jay,
Lets be fair, how much hands on can you be with over 250 courses with your name on them. I have no problem with delegate and disappear but in all fairness I think it was a formula that worked in the past and times have changed and that market nich is disappearing.

Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Six Continent Club
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2014, 09:31:08 AM »
Tom, that is most certainly NOT the case...Bobby's operation is bobby and Bruce and for a while, Jay.  Jack and tom have huge teams of design associates. And he spends loads of hours on the sites...far more than you insinuate in your reply.  He is as diligent and dedicated as you are.  He's not a wave and fly guy at all.  

Jay - you forgot to mention Mark Voss, Mike Gorman and Mike Kahler....

Yes, but they haven't worked with Bobby in some time.  Bobby was at most a, what, three-or-four guy operation.  That's still enough for a lot of hands on work by Bobby...and you all know Bobby...he li8kes to be in the dirt, he likes to be creative, he likes to tinker.  There is a great deal of his personal time that goes into working the project.  Look, can any reasonably say that they DON'T think RTJ, Jr. can be credited with designing a course on every continent?

Let's also do this, to broaden the field a bit...let's see who has "Five and one" - meaning five continents down and a project being actually physically built now on the sixth.  Again, this may indicative of anything other than luck and happenstance, but I thought it'd be interesting to see.

I forget who asked, but Steve Smyers is finishing his S.A. course as we speak.  It's called Costa Jama. That will bring him to six when it opens.
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Six Continent Club
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2014, 10:38:06 AM »
Tom, that is most certainly NOT the case...Bobby's operation is bobby and Bruce and for a while, Jay.  Jack and tom have huge teams of design associates. And he spends loads of hours on the sites...far more than you insinuate in your reply.  He is as diligent and dedicated as you are.  He's not a wave and fly guy at all.  

Jay - you forgot to mention Mark Voss, Mike Gorman and Mike Kahler....

Yes, but they haven't worked with Bobby in some time.

Bobby's website says otherwise. http://www.rtj2.com/about-us-mainmenu-83/talent-mainmenu-54

Mike Gorman is currently leading the renovation of Vidauban in France for RTJ2. Mike Kahler runs their Far East operation. Mark led the reconstruction of Palmares in Portugal, which opened last year. I have no idea where you get this stuff from.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: The Six Continent Club
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2014, 12:11:52 PM »
Look, can any reasonably say that they DON'T think RTJ, Jr. can be credited with designing a course on every continent?


I wasn't trying to disqualify him from anything.  I was just objecting to you drawing a distinction between Bobby and Jack Nicklaus or Greg Norman, and saying one does so much more than the others, when you haven't hung around them all.  I'm fine with giving them all credit for designing the courses they've got their names on.

Their approach is not terribly different overseas than to what it is in the U.S.A. -- although the time commitment to each project may be reduced somewhat.

Randy Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Six Continent Club
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2014, 08:24:33 PM »
Robert Von Hagge  qualifies for that club but not sure if they did anything in Australia after splitting with Devlin.

Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Six Continent Club
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2014, 09:06:07 PM »
Adam k did forget Mark Voss - he's here in the States, but in Bobby's office in Cali it's just he and Bruce , and that's what I meant.
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Ricardo Ramirez Calvo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Six Continent Club
« Reply #33 on: February 03, 2014, 01:11:26 PM »
Dollar exchange rate has gone up but inflation is high--not sure the dollar actually buys you more these days.

Randy, any chance you'll be in BA in late March? Will be down visiting my wife's family for spring break.

Dear Carl,

If you plan to come to Argentina, let me know in advance. I can arrange golf if you want.

By the end of March, if things continue as expected, you may be able to buy the entire country with a few dollars. :o

Best,
Ricardo

MClutterbuck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Six Continent Club
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2014, 06:25:10 PM »
Fream has a completed Project of eighteen holes in Argentina, Pilar golf Club. Jay mentioned Gil maybe, does he have six completed projects, if I remember right most of his work has been in renovation and his completed projects were around that many but the shift is now going to eighteen hole projects. Norman has twelve holes completed  in the South of Argentina but not eighteen as of yet.

Randy:

What sort of project is happening in the south of Argentina?  That sounds like an interesting place to work.

Tom, this is the project in San Martin de los Andes that you and I discussed briefly a few years back. You had received our site topo. Hopefully in the future we can do a links course here. 

MClutterbuck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Six Continent Club
« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2014, 06:42:55 PM »
Fream has a completed Project of eighteen holes in Argentina, Pilar golf Club. Jay mentioned Gil maybe, does he have six completed projects, if I remember right most of his work has been in renovation and his completed projects were around that many but the shift is now going to eighteen hole projects. Norman has twelve holes completed  in the South of Argentina but not eighteen as of yet.

Randy:

What sort of project is happening in the south of Argentina?  That sounds like an interesting place to work.
Tom,
It is beautiful country, both the south of Chile and Argentina (refered to as, Patagonia in both countries), words canīt describe it but maybe inland Oregon and Western Canada come close. Anyways, about ten years ago after many years of going round and round Nicklaus did one for a former friend or neighbor to get his foot in the door in Argentina. I never understood how the economics were going to work but like you said thatīs only our concern when asked. Anyways, the course has struggled and about five years ago they got a hotel group in and built the hotel and it opened. Its empty ten months a year, as is the golf course. The owner started a construction company with the shaper and built a couple of other Nicklaus courses in Argentina (two) and from those profits kept the course open and in good condition. But itīs been three or four years since they have done anything else and the construction company has dissolved after trying to get other projects but without results. The project is in a beautiful area called San Martin but like I said, it always seemed to be hanging on by a thread. The Norman project is across the street and that one really blew my mind of...How and Why. They took about five to seven years, going forward, stopping going forward, stopping and started construction about three years ago. I walked it after the rough shaping was done and then more starts and stops. Last I heard they were about to open 9 or the full twelve but have not heard about the other six going forward but that doesnīt mean it isnīt happening, i just donīt know. But, I do know sales are slow and what they have sold has been mostly been to Brazilians and a few Americans.

Randy,

Thank you for your kind words in previous postings about the site and routing of the Norman course we are building. We have 9 holes fully shaped, of which 5 are seeded. The other 4 holes will be seeded soon and hopefully grow in before winter. Depending on the weather and how the fescues grow, we expect some limited play this fall or opening next (Southern Hemisphere) spring.

We did stop construction for just over a year due to a volcano eruption that blanketed the site with ashes and sand, and closed down the airport for over a year. It was really hard to breath or run machinery during times. The good part is that volcanic sand is excellent greens mix. The eruption is a once in 80 year event and the region has fully recovered.

We have the other 9 holes cleared of pine trees and will proceed as soon as we finish the front 9. The back 9 sits on a plateau, will have 80% less earthworks, with just minimum dozer work, so we expect it will be a shorter construction time frame.

Buyers include Argentines, both local and from Buenos Aires, Americans, Europeans, and from several countries in Latin America. There has been less than a handful of Brazilians buying so far, although we do expect that will change with time.

Marcos