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Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why all the hate?
« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2014, 12:31:41 PM »
TD,

Well, I gave up on firing at the flag years ago.  I played the Pete Dye designed Stonebriar many years ago on consecutive days - one playing to the far edge of the FW and greens from the main hazard and the other playing more aggressively.  My conservative score was 82 and my aggressive score was 97.  Just as some wonder how many times you have to go back to the well to decide if you like an archies course, I wonder how many times golfers have to keep firing at pins to learn not to.

The only thing about the greens is that most golfers would like to be able to aim at some portion of the green, not be forced to aim at the rough if they have the distance ability to get there.  I looked at the aerial of the TT 8th, and it looks like you get half the green from the right edge of the FW, a third from the middle, and a quarter from the left fw edge, so it seems about right.  

That said, there is little doubt it would be slightly easier if the green angled less and the opening was a bit wider, so maybe it would be 80-60-40% opening.  My  point was to show how architects need to consider things in that level of detail, taking into consideration lots of different things.  Had it been Commonground rather than Rawls, you probably would have tweaked the concept just a little bit for more playability, as would JN, myself, or others.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 01:08:31 PM by Jeff_Brauer »
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Pat Burke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why all the hate?
« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2014, 12:46:41 PM »
This is a great thread in many ways.
I have not met Tom Doak, and sadly haven't played one of his courses yet,
But I am amazed at the time and knowledge he shares in here.
I do know Mike Clayton, and liked him as a player, and his writing in Aus, and I am hopeful for success in this arena for him.
I played golf at AT&T with Rees Jones, and he couldn't have been nicer.  His courses are a mix to me, but it
seems he gave his clients what they wanted.
I played a good number of Nicklaus courses, and didn't play any of them well.  I won't join those courses, but don't
care if others like them.
Tiger is disliked by many, but my handful of interactions with him, were nothing but positive.
There are a couple of players, very well known, who treated me like crap when I was playing.
Greg Norman however, reached out a hand to help me in a tough period of my career.

I hate some holes, some courses, and a trio of human beings I had the misfortune of dealing with.
I do my best not to attach those feelings to anything I haven't personally experienced.
I'm friends with a lot of people who dislike each other, and have had problems with a few people that
it seems I am the only one that HAS had problems with.

In effect, I still need my sports psychologist for more than sports!

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why all the hate?
« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2014, 01:28:39 PM »


In effect, I still need my sports psychologist for more than sports!



It's probably because of golf--it screws us all up.

Maybe the better you play the more screwed up you get. ;D

Frank Giordano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why all the hate?
« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2014, 01:54:06 PM »
This is one of the most fascinating threads I've seen in my short time as a participant here.  And what a privilege to have many of our top architects and designers weigh in and share their philosophies and their common sense approaches to the real people and the real games they design for. 

If Variety is at the heart of great golf courses and architecture (and all the visual arts), we're learning here, from our best designers, that the variety of achievements by a wide variety of architects, should be celebrated.  Emotions like "hate" are simply way out of bounds in discussing architects and courses we don't like.  Golf course architecture is, for those of us who play the courses, a matter of entertainment, a source, hopefully of fun and beauty.  It is  not a matter calling for moral judgments, personal vilification, and hatred.  Golf courses, and their creators, call for aesthetic consideration, and, in matters of taste,  de gustibus non est disputandum.  No one is obliged to like all courses or to play all courses.  We golfers are free to choose the courses and designers we like, presumably those that, for us, are fun to play and in attractive environments.

That being said, many of us fall prey to the contemporary ratings mania, where golf courses and architects are treated like racehorses and we feel the need to make the most of our $2 bet or two cents worth opinions about our favorite choices.  Going to war over whether natural or artificial courses are to be preferred is folly, as both are desirable and, as has been pointed out often here, there is no such thing as a golf course in Nature. From the first philosophical discussions in our Western culture,  art has been seen as an imitation of nature.  And art, from the earliest days, has functioned to produce beauty and instruction: it was dulce et utile.  Classical artists have always stuck pretty close to this imitative approach to art. Surely, we are right in speaking of Donald Ross, for example, as a Classical designer.  With reverence for Nature, he designed to find his holes and courses there.

But when Nature does not supply the real thing Man desires, such as a playing ground for a new game, Man has always needed  to help Her.  That kind of refinement is what we call art, the artificial imposition upon Nature of some desirable qualities not already created by Her.  Later theorists, who understood that Nature is sometimes "red in tooth and claw," and that she needs to be tamed or improved by man, are known as Romantic artists and architects.  Such artists considered that  Man's creative capacity was nearly Divine, as were his imagination and inventiveness.  Such attitudes led to much more aggressive impositions upon Nature, where the applications of artifice functioned sometimes to tame the wildness of Nature, sometimes to enhance and beautify what God presumably didn't do well enough.

The tension, in both the arts and in criticism,  between Classicism and Romanticism is both universal and highly progressive and productive.  This tension, though, is essentially a competition between different tastes.  And in the course of our Western history, one approach tends to dominate our consciousness for a period of time; then, excesses in the practice of that style bring about some artistic revolt and the other approach tends to dominate for the next phase of an art's development.  The revolution typically comes when the rules of art become so narrowly defined and restrictive of creativity that a kind of staleness and repetitiveness infect the works produced and inhibit the artist's natural impulses to create something novel, extraordinary, outside the box, if you will.

Originally, for example, the application of the principles of Classicism led to the creation of many of our culture's masterpieces in the arts. Eventually, though, artists begin to classify rules for production, categorize types of art, delimit the perimeters of art, and insist, in a kind of fundamentalist fashion, that great art had to be ... according to the classical traditions as encoded in some academic rules.  (Does this sound familiar as we discuss golf course architecture?)  Great imaginative artists then chafed under the rules and traditions, said "No, in Thunder," and set off to do their creative work in revolutionary ways.  At first, such Romantic art works confused, then infuriated older artists and critics and patrons of the arts, those in fact who paid for the production.  Inevitably, some of the most open-minded in a culture began to appreciate the products of the artistic imagination freed from the constraints of traditional, codified rules of practice.  Soon after, a massive change in the culture's taste led to a triumph of the new, liberated, unconventional, highly artificial  Romantic art. 

And that phase of critical approval too passed, where the excesses of unconventional, not to say revolutionary practices, led to many outrageous and incomprehensible art works and evoked in the culture a sense that things have gotten so out of control, art had gotten so far from Nature and from its obligation to give pleasure, that the next Classical era needed to emerge.

Our artificial designers and our minimalist designers reflect to a large degree this cultural tension between the artistic theories of Classicism and Romanticism.  We are fortunate, we the whole community of golfers, to have both types of artists working productively in our time.  The variety of courses available to us is literally a national treasure.  Go find the courses you like, and play them all you want.  Look too at courses you think you might not like; perhaps exposure to works you've kept away from, because of your biases against names and reputations, will surprise you most pleasantly.   If not, you'll at least know what you like and why you like it.  However, a broad catholicity of taste is desirable in golf courses as in any of the arts. 

In matters of taste, there can be plenty of civilized discussions, but there should be no hating.

Jim Sherma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why all the hate?
« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2014, 02:17:02 PM »
Had to look up "catholicity" - good word, thanks.

Agree with you statement, but the replacement of critique and dialogue with horse race style analysis reporting in this country is rampant. Somewhere along the way political and even scientific reporting went from trying to report on the policies or studies being discussed to whether or not a given side is "winning" the news cycle that day. Very different and not good for anyone involved. 

This is one of the most fascinating threads I've seen in my short time as a participant here.  And what a privilege to have many of our top architects and designers weigh in and share their philosophies and their common sense approaches to the real people and the real games they design for. 

If Variety is at the heart of great golf courses and architecture (and all the visual arts), we're learning here, from our best designers, that the variety of achievements by a wide variety of architects, should be celebrated.  Emotions like "hate" are simply way out of bounds in discussing architects and courses we don't like.  Golf course architecture is, for those of us who play the courses, a matter of entertainment, a source, hopefully of fun and beauty.  It is  not a matter calling for moral judgments, personal vilification, and hatred.  Golf courses, and their creators, call for aesthetic consideration, and, in matters of taste,  de gustibus non est disputandum.  No one is obliged to like all courses or to play all courses.  We golfers are free to choose the courses and designers we like, presumably those that, for us, are fun to play and in attractive environments.

That being said, many of us fall prey to the contemporary ratings mania, where golf courses and architects are treated like racehorses and we feel the need to make the most of our $2 bet or two cents worth opinions about our favorite choices.  Going to war over whether natural or artificial courses are to be preferred is folly, as both are desirable and, as has been pointed out often here, there is no such thing as a golf course in Nature. From the first philosophical discussions in our Western culture,  art has been seen as an imitation of nature.  And art, from the earliest days, has functioned to produce beauty and instruction: it was dulce et utile.  Classical artists have always stuck pretty close to this imitative approach to art. Surely, we are right in speaking of Donald Ross, for example, as a Classical designer.  With reverence for Nature, he designed to find his holes and courses there.

But when Nature does not supply the real thing Man desires, such as a playing ground for a new game, Man has always needed  to help Her.  That kind of refinement is what we call art, the artificial imposition upon Nature of some desirable qualities not already created by Her.  Later theorists, who understood that Nature is sometimes "red in tooth and claw," and that she needs to be tamed or improved by man, are known as Romantic artists and architects.  Such artists considered that  Man's creative capacity was nearly Divine, as were his imagination and inventiveness.  Such attitudes led to much more aggressive impositions upon Nature, where the applications of artifice functioned sometimes to tame the wildness of Nature, sometimes to enhance and beautify what God presumably didn't do well enough.

The tension, in both the arts and in criticism,  between Classicism and Romanticism is both universal and highly progressive and productive.  This tension, though, is essentially a competition between different tastes.  And in the course of our Western history, one approach tends to dominate our consciousness for a period of time; then, excesses in the practice of that style bring about some artistic revolt and the other approach tends to dominate for the next phase of an art's development.  The revolution typically comes when the rules of art become so narrowly defined and restrictive of creativity that a kind of staleness and repetitiveness infect the works produced and inhibit the artist's natural impulses to create something novel, extraordinary, outside the box, if you will.

Originally, for example, the application of the principles of Classicism led to the creation of many of our culture's masterpieces in the arts. Eventually, though, artists begin to classify rules for production, categorize types of art, delimit the perimeters of art, and insist, in a kind of fundamentalist fashion, that great art had to be ... according to the classical traditions as encoded in some academic rules.  (Does this sound familiar as we discuss golf course architecture?)  Great imaginative artists then chafed under the rules and traditions, said "No, in Thunder," and set off to do their creative work in revolutionary ways.  At first, such Romantic art works confused, then infuriated older artists and critics and patrons of the arts, those in fact who paid for the production.  Inevitably, some of the most open-minded in a culture began to appreciate the products of the artistic imagination freed from the constraints of traditional, codified rules of practice.  Soon after, a massive change in the culture's taste led to a triumph of the new, liberated, unconventional, highly artificial  Romantic art. 

And that phase of critical approval too passed, where the excesses of unconventional, not to say revolutionary practices, led to many outrageous and incomprehensible art works and evoked in the culture a sense that things have gotten so out of control, art had gotten so far from Nature and from its obligation to give pleasure, that the next Classical era needed to emerge.

Our artificial designers and our minimalist designers reflect to a large degree this cultural tension between the artistic theories of Classicism and Romanticism.  We are fortunate, we the whole community of golfers, to have both types of artists working productively in our time.  The variety of courses available to us is literally a national treasure.  Go find the courses you like, and play them all you want.  Look too at courses you think you might not like; perhaps exposure to works you've kept away from, because of your biases against names and reputations, will surprise you most pleasantly.   If not, you'll at least know what you like and why you like it.  However, a broad catholicity of taste is desirable in golf courses as in any of the arts. 

In matters of taste, there can be plenty of civilized discussions, but there should be no hating.

Joe Sponcia

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why all the hate?
« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2014, 02:27:01 PM »
Frank,

I wish I was smart enough to understand what surely took you an hour to write:)
Joe


"If the hole is well designed, a fairway can't be too wide".

- Mike Nuzzo

Martin Toal

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why all the hate?
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2014, 02:54:52 PM »
Pat Burke makes an important point - the architects may have succeeded in giving the owner what they want more than they create something to universal acclaim. I guess we might be at risk of the equivalent of criticising an oil painting as being ugly without seeing the subject and realising what a masterly accomplishment it really was.

FWIW, I have mostly enjoyed the JN courses I have played, perhaps with Grand Cypress New the least inspiring.

The picture tours posted here of Doak, C&C, Bandon etc courses look fantastic and I would love to play those, but have not yet managed to do so, but I enjoy them vicariously, as well as Sean (i still can't believe he is a Yank) Arble's photo tours and erudite descriptions.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Why all the hate?
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2014, 03:52:20 PM »

In matters of taste, there can be plenty of civilized discussions, but there should be no hating.

Frank:

I appreciate much of what you wrote, but I disagree with your last sentence.  In matters of taste, there is usually plenty of hating, and I agree with what John Kavanaugh said much earlier, to ignore that is just denial.

By the same token, I have come to learn in recent years that generally speaking, hating reflects more on oneself than it does on the subject.  So I can agree with you from the sense that we would all be better off if there was less of it, or at least, if we examined it for what it says about US, as much as what it says about Jack Nicklaus or Tom Fazio designs.

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why all the hate?
« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2014, 04:02:50 PM »
All I know is that because of my love of the GAME I have never hated a golf course, just my performances on them sometimes, but evn then the self loathing was short lived.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why all the hate?
« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2014, 04:11:16 PM »
So, all you have to ask is whether the worst day on a golf course is better than the best day at the office?  Most golf courses would fit that bill.  Certainly most and probably all Fazio and JN courses would fit that bill. 

The discussion here focuses so much on the fine differences between top 100 and 250 that it misses the big picture.  There is nothing on most professionally designed courses to really hate.  Lament maybe.....
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Frank Giordano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why all the hate?
« Reply #60 on: February 12, 2014, 04:19:16 PM »
Tom,

The existence of this thread indicates the truth of your point about my last sentence.  But my final clause is "there should be no hate."  If anyone finds anything hateful about our game or its courses, I'm with you in believing the emotion reveals more about the hater than the hated.  Let them find something else to do or some other, legitimate targets for their hatred.  And, pray God, let them get some help for having hate for what is, after all, a game, a pastime, a harmless art form.  I truly believe we do not judge golf and its courses; golf measures and judges us.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why all the hate?
« Reply #61 on: February 12, 2014, 04:19:19 PM »
... hating reflects more on oneself than it does on the subject.  ...

That's right! I hate ponds, because I hit more balls into them than the average participant of this site. :) And, by the transitive property, I hate architect that create artificial ponds for the same reason. ;)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Keith Grande

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why all the hate?
« Reply #62 on: February 12, 2014, 04:27:08 PM »
I know MANY golfers who judge a course by how well they played/scored....we all know someone!

Guy shoots a great round, strikes ball well, LOVES the course.

Next week,a different course, plays horribly, terrible ball striking which has nothing to do with the course, perhaps challenged a certain part of his game which was weak to begin with, HATES the course.

« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 04:33:24 PM by Keith Grande »

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why all the hate?
« Reply #63 on: February 12, 2014, 06:20:48 PM »
I'm a passionate individual and, to that end, any hating I may temporarily feel does indeed say more about me and my passions than about any given architect. For me, in the calm light of day, there is absolutely no hatred for anyone that wants to spend their time designing a golf course.

However, for anyone that really cares deeply about this art form, is it really wrong to hate the fact that so many people are denied the joy of experiencing the game as we do because they are fed an endless diet of a certain type of golf course? Some people would just never appreciate it, sure, but so many others would. To simply argue that there is a huge amount of choice out there and people will simply find what they like ignores the endless advertising merry-go-round that is at the heart of the modern golf industry. Is it really wrong to hate that?

In September the golf world will descend on Gleneagles and the masses will be sold the idea that Jack Nicklaus just built a great new golf course in some previously unheard of Scottish location. Apparently there were some other courses there before but they were much older and shorter and therefore obviously nowhere near as good. Are we really all OK with that?
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Why all the hate?
« Reply #64 on: February 12, 2014, 06:52:52 PM »
I'm a passionate individual and, to that end, any hating I may temporarily feel does indeed say more about me and my passions than about any given architect. For me, in the calm light of day, there is absolutely no hatred for anyone that wants to spend their time designing a golf course.

However, for anyone that really cares deeply about this art form, is it really wrong to hate the fact that so many people are denied the joy of experiencing the game as we do because they are fed an endless diet of a certain type of golf course? Some people would just never appreciate it, sure, but so many others would. To simply argue that there is a huge amount of choice out there and people will simply find what they like ignores the endless advertising merry-go-round that is at the heart of the modern golf industry. Is it really wrong to hate that?

In September the golf world will descend on Gleneagles and the masses will be sold the idea that Jack Nicklaus just built a great new golf course in some previously unheard of Scottish location. Apparently there were some other courses there before but they were much older and shorter and therefore obviously nowhere near as good. Are we really all OK with that?

Paul:

God knows I still find plenty of things in golf that I hate.  It does not speak well of me, but it's what drives me to try to do better.

I used to have a friend also in the business, who seemed to like everyone and everything and every course, and everyone liked him back.  He could not understand how I could be so opinionated, and I could not understand how he was going to do great work if he really didn't care about the difference between good and better; but I figured he would probably outlive me at least.  It was a shock when he died of a heart attack last year.

There is still an endless amount of bullshit being peddled in the golf business, and someone really ought to call it for what it is. 

BCowan

Re: Why all the hate?
« Reply #65 on: February 12, 2014, 07:23:29 PM »
''There is still an endless amount of bullshit being peddled in the golf business, and someone really ought to call it for what it is.''

    Yes there is.  Don't you think that past generations were better leaders than now?  It seems as though 60-80 years ago a group of guys with modest earnings seemed to pool their money together and design their own course or higher an architect to produce a solid product.  Now it seems as though more wait for a Trump/Keiser(no disrespect to either of them) to develop a great course with a great archie.  I still think word of mouth is the best form of advertising and can out do Golf Publications!  So i think it is our fault as traditionalists for sitting and not doing anything about it except complain!  Also I love to quote Perry Maxwell and ask the rest ''Have we not learned anything from the Scots?"

just my 2 cents! 

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why all the hate?
« Reply #66 on: February 12, 2014, 07:44:43 PM »
...

There is still an endless amount of bullshit being peddled in the golf business, and someone really ought to call it for what it is.  

The problem is that the biggest BS'ers have the biggest megaphone, and they and their minions will shout you down.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why all the hate?
« Reply #67 on: February 12, 2014, 08:05:03 PM »
I'm a passionate individual and, to that end, any hating I may temporarily feel does indeed say more about me and my passions than about any given architect. For me, in the calm light of day, there is absolutely no hatred for anyone that wants to spend their time designing a golf course.

However, for anyone that really cares deeply about this art form, is it really wrong to hate the fact that so many people are denied the joy of experiencing the game as we do because they are fed an endless diet of a certain type of golf course? Some people would just never appreciate it, sure, but so many others would. To simply argue that there is a huge amount of choice out there and people will simply find what they like ignores the endless advertising merry-go-round that is at the heart of the modern golf industry. Is it really wrong to hate that?

In September the golf world will descend on Gleneagles and the masses will be sold the idea that Jack Nicklaus just built a great new golf course in some previously unheard of Scottish location. Apparently there were some other courses there before but they were much older and shorter and therefore obviously nowhere near as good. Are we really all OK with that?

Paul:

God knows I still find plenty of things in golf that I hate.  It does not speak well of me, but it's what drives me to try to do better.

I used to have a friend also in the business, who seemed to like everyone and everything and every course, and everyone liked him back.  He could not understand how I could be so opinionated, and I could not understand how he was going to do great work if he really didn't care about the difference between good and better; but I figured he would probably outlive me at least.  It was a shock when he died of a heart attack last year.

There is still an endless amount of bullshit being peddled in the golf business, and someone really ought to call it for what it is. 

I'll try to call it like it is...
The large "signature" architects are a product of the development world and are rarely hired by a client for the type of golf course they would design/deliver.  They are hired to increase lot value...or room rate. These guys are a small commodity used by RE firms to promote a product.  The initial contact is usually through their marketing arm and then it is handed off to an associate with a few visits by the principal.  So often as the associates change so does the design of the firm.  And often the same goes as they change their main contractor every few years.  This environment created a stable full of incompetency that relied on consultant after consultant to produce a product.  When things were booming they would not come near a public golf project and they would condemn anything built without USGA greens or for under 4 million dollars.  They would never discuss renovations or remodels of less than an entire 18 holes.  It was a lame culture.  Many of the associates were never taught the aspects of the business for the majority of the normal architects and had no idea that people really had to go after work.  So often I have seen a superior attitude from some young kid working for one of the sigs and yet he had no clue.  BUT it all was a business fed by a development industry that could easily absorb a 25 or 30 million dollar product in many cases.  Now that has changed. 
Now we are at a time when guys are finding that blood is thicker than water.  Good associates that had made some of the sigs have to take backseats to sons or other family members who would rather be hunting ducks.  Dozens of young associates that never got to the senior level have been thrown out into the real world of golf design and are like a deer in headlights.  They find quickly that people could care less who they worked for.  They awake to see that good contractors exist who can put the same product on the ground for much much less than the dinosaurs they had been dealing with.  And they find out just how cutthroat the normal golf course design sale can become. 
All of the above create a "hate" within the industry that may be much greater than any hate the architects see from golfers.  The industry has changed and the big budget guys naturally don't want to see it go.  Remember just a few short years ago architects considered it a no no to practice design/build.  And the industry went hard after those that did.  Think about this scenario :  Signature team has Design team, pseudo-bid/negotiate National General Contractor, Irrigation Consultant, Irrigation Vendor, Equipment Vendor, Golf Superintendent  AND then you have a smaller architect building a product with s few small dozers and a crew of guys that can play golf and shape/build also.  THEY HATE THAT.....WHY??...because some prominent owners have taken chances and products have been put on the ground for much much less money and they were good.  THEY RAN ROUGHSHOD OVER AN INDUSTRY FOR 25 YEARS AND ALMOST DESTROYED IT AND HAVE BEEN FOUND OUT.  An entire segment of the industry depended on these signatures keeping them fed and they do not like anyone that had much to do with changing that.  Of course there will always be some clients who will continue to spend such only because it can be absorbed by the specific project. 

As a footnote to the above:  I have always thought JN was an extremely intelligent guy and he would be my exception to the above...I think he had really good associates that taught him as much as he taught them in guys like Moorish, Lipe and Cupp but he had so many hanger-ons in consultant types and some of his general contractors.  (Lipe built the best JN courses IMHO)  Outside of JN most of the others were and are just marketing machines.
And as much dislike and "hate" as there is in the industry I think most have learned to live by the old adage that you can't worry about what those that don't know you think of you.... :) :)

Is that enough??
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Frank Giordano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why all the hate?
« Reply #68 on: February 12, 2014, 10:29:50 PM »
"There is still an endless amount of bullshit being peddled in the golf business, and someone really ought to call it for what it is." 

Tom and Mike,

Thanks for the passionate truth-telling about the game that's being bastardized by the business of golf.

I have real empathy for your positions and your legitimate hatred of fundamentally unjust issues within your business.  For you men, and others employed in the business of producing golf course designs and bringing the courses to life in the ground, golf and its architects are, literally, a matter of life and death.  Golf is your living as well as, to a great extent, your life.  To hate the hateful parts of the business is the only way to preserve your integrity and sanity: identify the hateful aspects,  expose them, and, hopefully, remediate them.

My comments about the folly and unhealthiness and immorality of hate on the part of players and critics assumes that very crucial distinction between us (for whom the game is but a game and  its architects are but men and women trying to do their best at their job), who are privileged to play the game, or not, and you, whose livings and lives are inextricably wound up in the business of golf.  Among the most hateful parts of the business, if I'm reading you both and Jeff Brauer correctly, is the denigration of the architect's work and name by those whose involvement in golf -- recreational players like most of us here -- is "for the fun of it."  Your defense of the pair of your competitors most abused in this thread is both generous and admirable.

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