Trump buys Doonbeg

[Adam Lawrence]

That report has been elsewhere too. But they have also said they'll take the windfarm case to appeal.

[Mike Sweeney]

But they have also said they'll take the windfarm case to appeal.

It is an interesting case study. i would argue that Trump did take it to appeal already, just did it in Ireland instead. Buy a finished resort for $15m in Ireland or spend $15M to fight the system in Scotland and maybe then build out the resort in Scotland. No lawyers, no hassles.

It's a global economy, and Trump moved his capital elsewhere - for now.

[Adam Lawrence]

Except that he claims he has invested $100 million in the Scottish resort already, and without the hotel and (especially) the houses, there's no prospect of him getting any of it back.

[Adam Lawrence]

Brian - I don't see the logic of that. There's no way the golf course alone can possibly be financially successful. What I don't get about this whole project is that Aberdeen is crying out for hotel accommodation and houses sell quickly there. By not building either, Trump is cutting off his nose to spite his face. The idea that he's using the wind farm as an excuse not to build either doesn't make economic sense.

[Adam Lawrence]

Also, what do you mean by 'the main clubhouse'?

[Mike Sweeney]

Except that he claims he has invested $100 million in the Scottish resort already, and without the hotel and (especially) the houses, there's no prospect of him getting any of it back.

I think he also said that Trump LA is the #1 course in California. As George Costanza said, "Jerry, it's not a lie if YOU believe it."

Donnie probably bills out his own time at $1.0 million per day, so $100 million seems reasonable

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Sweeney,

It would be interesting to know the financial structure of his course empire.

Losses at a given club tend to be softened when they can offset profits at other clubs.

I would imagine that each club is an independent entity, owned by a single holding company.

For all the naysayers, in terms of the finanical woes he'll encounter, I'm not worried about the "Donald's" ability to make a living, and judging by his lifestyle, neither is he.

[Adam Lawrence]

Except that he claims he has invested $100 million in the Scottish resort already, and without the hotel and (especially) the houses, there's no prospect of him getting any of it back.

I think he also said that Trump LA is the #1 course in California. As George Costanza said, "Jerry, it's not a lie if YOU believe it."

Donnie probably bills out his own time at $1.0 million per day, so $100 million seems reasonable

Mike, I also take the $100 million figure with a pinch of salt, but whichever way you look at it a large amount of money has been spent there, and no way it is coming back without the hotel and the housing. So the exact number is of secondary importance.

Brian - if you look at the site master plan, which is on the fourth page of this document - http://www.trumpgolfscotland.com/files/TIGLS%20Master%20Plan%20Brochure.pdf - you see the clubhouse and hotel/housing were planned to be separate. So I don't think there's an issue here.

[Niall C]

Adam

I find it inconceivable that he has spent that kind of money ($100m) at Balmedie. It wouldn't be difficult to find out what he paid for the property, that is a matter of public record but from what I recall it was less than £10m. The course cost c.£7m to build, the new access road which I roughly calculate from googlemaps to be c.800m's is likely to have cost no more than £1m or £2m including the car park. I'm assuming that any services were minimal and that the services infrastructure for the housing/hotel development has still to go in. Throw in a hefty wad for professional fees and I suspect that you are looking at c.£20m. He may also have spent some on the existing buildings such as Menie house but again I find it hard to believe he spent millions rather than hundreds of thousands on that.

The only other thing that I can think of the he spent his money on were perhaps s.75 payments and perhaps a ransom for access however the s.75 would have been geared to the housing/hotel coming out the ground and would have been relatively minimal anyway, while any ransom would have surely been offset from what he paid for the property. Interesting to speculate from a professional point of view but what really interests me is why he hasn't yet commenced development of the housing/hotel. The offshore wind turbines is just a smokescreen, there's surely some other reason.

About 18 months to 2 years ago I heard that the valuation of his proposed housing units was coming in at 40% below what was in his development appraisal so I suspect that has lead to a rethink of the scheme. Perhaps he similarly over estimated the worth of his hotel rooms. The US and the UK are two different markets and perhaps he thought the Trump brand would bring in a bigger premium than it is, who knows. Hard to imagine though that given the Aberdeen market that he won't find a scheme that works.

Niall




 

[David_Tepper]

According to this article in The Herald, the Donald has withdrawn the planning application to build a 2nd course in Aberdeen.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/trump-withdraws-planning-application-to-build-another-golf-course-in-scotland.1392292721 

[Patrick_Mucci]

So that I can get my bearings straight, is everyone now applauding that a second course won't be built ?

[Ruediger Meyer]

“Wind farms are a disaster for Scotland, like Pan Am 103 [the 1988 bombing of a US bound flight]. They make people sick with the continuous noise. They’re an abomination and are only sustained with government subsidy,” he said. “Scotland is in the middle of a revolution against wind farms. People don’t want them near their homes ruining property values,”

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/retail-and-services/trump-lays-out-big-plans-for-doonbeg-golf-resort-1.1688203

And people still wonder why Trump is so hated...

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ruediger,

You have to be kidding.

One look at the photos tells you exactly how the writer of the article feels about Trump.

Do you really think the author of the article will portray him in a positive light ?

Don't believe everything you read.

How has he fared with his acquisition of Doral ?

“Wind farms are a disaster for Scotland, like Pan Am 103 [the 1988 bombing of a US bound flight]. They make people sick with the continuous noise. They’re an abomination and are only sustained with government subsidy,” he said. “Scotland is in the middle of a revolution against wind farms. People don’t want them near their homes ruining property values,”

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/retail-and-services/trump-lays-out-big-plans-for-doonbeg-golf-resort-1.1688203

And people still wonder why Trump is so hated...

[Mark_F]

One look at the photos tells you exactly how the writer of the article feels about Trump.

Do you really think the author of the article will portray him in a positive light ? 

Patrick,

You are drawing a very long bow to suggest the author of that article feels negatively about Trump.  It was little more than quotes from a press release.

I did love this quote from the Herald Scotland piece: "“The Irish employees are ecstatic. We’re getting emails all day from Ireland and we’re going to create a lot of jobs.”

Maybe the Irish should read this piece in the Independent: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/donald-trump-fails-to-deliver-on-golf-resort-jobs-pledge-8693854.html

[Sean_A]

It would seem only Salmond ever really believed Trump was going to deliver on his incredibly OTT promises.  What a shame Scotland let a guy like Trump take them to the cleaners.  This guy, whats his name?  The one most villified for sticking to his guns - you know, remember, the guy who used his casting vote against Trump's plan?  Don't you remember, then Salmond had to step on necks to help out Trump?  Well, maybe folks on this site and in Scotland should start sending their apology letters to Mr. Ford.  Honestly, this entire mess has been disgraceful.  About the only guy who had any power in this sordid affair and acted with any sense of integrity got the sack for his troubles.  No good deed goes unpunished. 

Ciao 

[Patrick_Mucci]

One look at the photos tells you exactly how the writer of the article feels about Trump.

Do you really think the author of the article will portray him in a positive light ? 

Patrick,

You are drawing a very long bow to suggest the author of that article feels negatively about Trump.  It was little more than quotes from a press release.

Mark,

You'd have to be a colossal moron to look at the pictures posted with the article and not understand where the author is coming from.
They're the most unflattering pictures one could muster up.

Have you had your vision tested recently ?

I did love this quote from the Herald Scotland piece: "“The Irish employees are ecstatic. We’re getting emails all day from Ireland and we’re going to create a lot of jobs.”

Maybe the Irish should read this piece in the Independent: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/donald-trump-fails-to-deliver-on-golf-resort-jobs-pledge-8693854.html

[Jack_Marr]

I don't mean to be pedantic, but the news editor would choose the picture. Generally, the author of the article wouldn't have anything to do with the choice of picture to go with it... or the headline... or the captions.

[Mark_F]

You'd have to be a colossal moron to look at the pictures posted with the article and not understand where the author is coming from.
They're the most unflattering pictures one could muster up.

Patrick,

I agree that the picture signifies a particularly noxious view of Trump - but if he stopped looking like an angry blowhard so often, then photographers wouldn't be able to take images like that, would they?

And I'm sure you realise that journalists don't select which images to use - that would be the picture editor's job.  

I disagree with the way he appears to go about his business - but is it better to have Doonbeg existing, under his ownership, than disappear?  Of course.

As to whether a second course should be built at Balmedie - unless the two courses are going to attract more visitors to Scotland rather than simply taking them away from existing courses, then no.

[Bill Gayne]

I don't understand the author's or editor's reference to a casino in the subheading.

[jeffwarne]

Don't suppose there are any alternative energy investments planned off the west coast of Ireland?

[Patrick_Mucci]

You'd have to be a colossal moron to look at the pictures posted with the article and not understand where the author is coming from.
They're the most unflattering pictures one could muster up.

Patrick,

I agree that the picture signifies a particularly noxious view of Trump - but if he stopped looking like an angry blowhard so often, then photographers wouldn't be able to take images like that, would they?

Mark,

I've been in his company a good number of times, although not nearly as much as others, and, I've never seen him act or look like that

And I'm sure you realise that journalists don't select which images to use - that would be the picture editor's job.  

Irrespective of the selector, the image and message presented are undeniable.
They're about as negative as you can get

I disagree with the way he appears to go about his business - but is it better to have Doonbeg existing, under his ownership, than disappear?  Of course.

As to whether a second course should be built at Balmedie - unless the two courses are going to attract more visitors to Scotland rather than simply taking them away from existing courses, then no.

[Jim Nugent]

If Trump does not build the hotel, homes and second golf course in Scotland, will he also change his investment/interest in the first course there? 

My speculation on why he's bowing out there: the area as I understand it mostly depends on oil revenues to prosper, and with huge new oil supplies coming to market due to fracking, Trump sees the writing on the wall for Aberdeen's economic future. 

[Jim Nugent]

The article in the Independent suggests another reason Trump may not have (and never had) any interest in moving ahead with his plans:

"Mr Trump’s failure so far to deliver his vision does not appear to have harmed his own interests. It is believed the planning permissions for the land have helped boost the value of his Scottish estate, bought for £7m, by at least £100m."

If so, this puts the whole project/scheme in a clearer light, at least for me. 

btw the same article puts Trump's total investment at £25m.  I'm guessing that's not his own money. 

[Ruediger Meyer]

Sorry Patrick, but unless you're implying the writer faked Trumps Quote, it wouldn't even matter what intention the writer has/had. If you really liken the building of wind turbines to a terrorist attack that cost over 100 lives, you are an absolut moron and idiot. And that exactly is what Trump did. He just looked for an out of the project all along...

[Jon Wiggett]

Ruedi,

you beat me to it. Comparing a wind farm to Pan Am 103 is really beyond the pail. Of course he will build his 2nd course and Hotel/houses but it will probably be on a smaller scale though it was always going to be that way. TBF, I do not think most of the locals give a damn and some would be glad to see the back of his organisation.

Jon