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Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #125 on: February 15, 2014, 03:36:06 PM »
Brent I think it would be better to limit distance, as I watch normal golfers on my course everyday distance does not really help golfers to score.It does allow them to hit it deeper in the woods though.If we keep this up courses are going to need to be longer and wider.I have seen 30 Hcp that can produce similar speeds as Dustin.

None of this is true.

Can anyone discuss, even in layman's terms, the specs that they'd like to see on a "rollback" ball?
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Lyndell Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #126 on: February 15, 2014, 07:18:52 PM »
Jason let me reclarify  maybe not Dustin speed but I see a lot of young players (under 30) that can hit it over 250 and have no idea where the ball is going.With the easier to hit Drivers that have huge sweet spot these players can get high long drives.I"m not saying take away easier to hit clubs that are great for new players.I do remember when I started playing a mishit drive went nowhere.I had a pro that did some statiscal work on player improvement,and he found that the new tech clubs actually  impede players learning proper ball striking.Due to reduced feedback from mishit shots. How many times do you see high hcp players banging drivers on the range when they need to be practicing shorter clubs. I think much of the potential cures are off limits because manufacturers are trying to sell new product every year.

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #127 on: February 15, 2014, 07:46:26 PM »
Can anyone discuss, even in layman's terms, the specs that they'd like to see on a "rollback" ball?

I am not sure "rollback" is the correct term, because I don't think the ball needs to be "rolled back" for most golfers.  Limiting regulations ought to focus not only on distance at a static swing speed (109 mph old, 120 mph new)  but also on the distance change per incremental change in swing speed.  I am not physicist, but one possible way this could be accomplished would be to not only limit the maximum distance at an high swing speeds but also to set minimum distance requirements for lower swing speeds. 
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #128 on: February 15, 2014, 09:21:29 PM »
David,

Spin rates, would also have a significant influence on ball flight/distance.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #129 on: February 15, 2014, 09:32:10 PM »
Yes David, a ball that makes the short guy longer and the long guy shorter all at once...it should also make the wild guy less accurate and the straight guy more accurate.

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #130 on: February 15, 2014, 09:35:53 PM »
Jim,  No ball would do that.  But getting rid of the balls that make the long guy much longer without benefitting the short guy would be a step in the right direction.

Does the ProV1x benefit golfers with moderate swing speeds?   Would getting rid of it hurt anyone other than the longest hitters with the fastest swing speeds?    And if these guys had to hit the ProV1 (oh the horror) wouldn't they still be substantially longer than everyone else?  
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #131 on: February 15, 2014, 09:36:35 PM »
double post
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Brent Hutto

Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #132 on: February 15, 2014, 10:18:56 PM »
What benefits the long guy is his clubhead speed and ability to hit the ball squarely. You're wanting a ball that prevents his clubhead speed and good contact from benefiting him. That's as bloody-minded as it is laughable.

Because that's what this complaint comes down to. You don't want someone who swings better than hits it solidly to gain the advantage of that ability.

Used to be the biggest hitters on the PGA Tour were content with playing a ball that didn't work worth shit for players of their ability. One day they woke up and started using a ball that did not cost them most of the advantage of their power and technique. Overnight the slightly-longer hitters were much longer because they quit tying one hand behind their back with silly balata and rubber-band balls.

You guys have been sputtering in outrage ever since. Why how DARE some guy who hits the ball 20% harder actually see his ball fly 20% farther. That's just not right!

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #133 on: February 15, 2014, 10:44:51 PM »
Once again, what you write has no relationship to what I believe.   But don't let that stop you. 
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Grant Saunders

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #134 on: February 15, 2014, 10:47:08 PM »
What benefits the long guy is his clubhead speed and ability to hit the ball squarely. You're wanting a ball that prevents his clubhead speed and good contact from benefiting him. That's as bloody-minded as it is laughable.

Because that's what this complaint comes down to. You don't want someone who swings better than hits it solidly to gain the advantage of that ability.

Used to be the biggest hitters on the PGA Tour were content with playing a ball that didn't work worth shit for players of their ability. One day they woke up and started using a ball that did not cost them most of the advantage of their power and technique. Overnight the slightly-longer hitters were much longer because they quit tying one hand behind their back with silly balata and rubber-band balls.

You guys have been sputtering in outrage ever since. Why how DARE some guy who hits the ball 20% harder actually see his ball fly 20% farther. That's just not right!

Agreed

Next they will be calling for Usain Bolt to have to run 110 metres against everyone else only running 100.

Why should golf be the only sport seeking to nullify the advantage gained by proper technique, dedicated training and genuine athleticism? The same technology is essentially available to all golfers so surely the playing field is benefitting evenly in terms of all golfers stand to gain the same percentage distance increase/decrease?

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #135 on: February 15, 2014, 11:10:39 PM »

What benefits the long guy is his clubhead speed and ability to hit the ball squarely. You're wanting a ball that prevents his clubhead speed and good contact from benefiting him. That's as bloody-minded as it is laughable.

Not really


Because that's what this complaint comes down to. You don't want someone who swings better than hits it solidly to gain the advantage of that ability.

What you're not seeing is that the manufacturers designed a ball that disadvantages the low swing speed hitter while benefiting the high speed swing hitter.  Is that what you want ?  To allow the best players to play better while the average to poor player sees little improvement ?


Used to be the biggest hitters on the PGA Tour were content with playing a ball that didn't work worth shit for players of their ability.

Now you've exposed yourself as one who doesn't know what he's talking about.
The manufacturers always catered to the best players in the world


One day they woke up and started using a ball that did not cost them most of the advantage of their power and technique.


That's not what happened.
The manufacturers deliberatgely developed balls that would go farther for those with higher swing speeds.
In addition, spin rates were lowered, making the ball fly straighter.
The manufacturers catered to a select sub-group and with hi tech equipment and balls provided them with an advantage not offered to the mediocre or poor golfer


Overnight the slightly-longer hitters were much longer because they quit tying one hand behind their back with silly balata and rubber-band balls.

Brent, please, you're detracting from the total sum of human knowledge about the game with your statements


You guys have been sputtering in outrage ever since. Why how DARE some guy who hits the ball 20% harder actually see his ball fly 20% farther. That's just not right!

NO, it's not, because the guy who swung at 70 mph, who now swings at 90 mph, a 28.6 % increase is not getting the same distance benefit as a guy who swung at 100 mph who now swings at 120 mph, a 20 % increase, because the ball was speciifcally designed to only or disproportionaly benefit the 120 mph hitter.

Tell me that you understand that


Patrick_Mucci

Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #136 on: February 15, 2014, 11:15:24 PM »

Agreed

Next they will be calling for Usain Bolt to have to run 110 metres against everyone else only running 100.

Why should golf be the only sport seeking to nullify the advantage gained by proper technique, dedicated training and genuine athleticism? The same technology is essentially available to all golfers so surely the playing field is benefitting evenly in terms of all golfers stand to gain the same percentage distance increase/decrease?

Because the ball has also been designed to spin less, ergo, higher swing speed won't result in disproportionally greater dispursion patterns.
In fact, I believe that an experiment with a particular ball showed that the harder (mph) it was hit, the less it spun..

I think a better athlete should have an advantage, but, not a stacked deck.


Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #137 on: February 15, 2014, 11:31:42 PM »

Agreed

Next they will be calling for Usain Bolt to have to run 110 metres against everyone else only running 100.

Why should golf be the only sport seeking to nullify the advantage gained by proper technique, dedicated training and genuine athleticism? The same technology is essentially available to all golfers so surely the playing field is benefitting evenly in terms of all golfers stand to gain the same percentage distance increase/decrease?

Because the ball has also been designed to spin less, ergo, higher swing speed won't result in disproportionally greater dispursion patterns.
In fact, I believe that an experiment with a particular ball showed that the harder (mph) it was hit, the less it spun..

I think a better athlete should have an advantage, but, not a stacked deck.


Can you cite this experiment? That would be really interesting to me. On the surface, it violates every law of physics with which I'm familiar.

Your last two posts allude to higher swing speed players gaining a bigger advantage over lower swing speed players. Are you talking about Dustin Johnson receiving a bigger advantage than Justin Leonard? Or are you talking about Tour pros in general receiving a bigger advantage than 20 handicappers? Or both?
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #138 on: February 15, 2014, 11:51:16 PM »
Why should golf be the only sport seeking to nullify the advantage gained by proper technique, dedicated training and genuine athleticism?
I had to read your post a few times to determine if you were joking when you wrote this. Still not sure, but I'll assume you are being serious. Do you think perhaps technological advances might have played a role in "the advantage gained?"  

Quote
The same technology is essentially available to all golfers so surely the playing field is benefitting evenly in terms of all golfers stand to gain the same percentage distance increase/decrease?

No, all golfers didn't stand to gain the same percentage distance increase/decrease.
_________________________________________

Contrary to what Brent loves to claim. I really don't care how long professionals hit the ball.  What I do care about is golf architecture, and quality golf course architecture is being threatened by two things:  1) How far big hitters hit it.   2) How much farther big hitters hit it than average golfers.  We no longer fit on the same golf courses. 
« Last Edit: February 15, 2014, 11:58:40 PM by DMoriarty »
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #139 on: February 16, 2014, 12:10:27 AM »

Agreed

Next they will be calling for Usain Bolt to have to run 110 metres against everyone else only running 100.

Why should golf be the only sport seeking to nullify the advantage gained by proper technique, dedicated training and genuine athleticism? The same technology is essentially available to all golfers so surely the playing field is benefitting evenly in terms of all golfers stand to gain the same percentage distance increase/decrease?

Because the ball has also been designed to spin less, ergo, higher swing speed won't result in disproportionally greater dispursion patterns.
In fact, I believe that an experiment with a particular ball showed that the harder (mph) it was hit, the less it spun..

I think a better athlete should have an advantage, but, not a stacked deck.


Can you cite this experiment? That would be really interesting to me. On the surface, it violates every law of physics with which I'm familiar.

Are you talking about the  time it takes to cook homemade grits or instant grits ? ;D


Your last two posts allude to higher swing speed players gaining a bigger advantage over lower swing speed players. Are you talking about Dustin Johnson receiving a bigger advantage than Justin Leonard? Or are you talking about Tour pros in general receiving a bigger advantage than 20 handicappers? Or both?

Neither, I'm talking about swing speeds in MPH


David Panzarasa

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #140 on: February 16, 2014, 12:35:27 AM »
I know this doesn't mean really belong, but....

Great little video here, Johnny Miller talking the "grip", from when he played and today's players. One reason for distance gain. Pretty interesting!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avt9kDIut24
especially around the 2:50 mark. Makes sense though

Grant Saunders

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #141 on: February 16, 2014, 02:56:06 AM »
Why should golf be the only sport seeking to nullify the advantage gained by proper technique, dedicated training and genuine athleticism?
I had to read your post a few times to determine if you were joking when you wrote this. Still not sure, but I'll assume you are being serious. Do you think perhaps technological advances might have played a role in "the advantage gained?" 

Quote
The same technology is essentially available to all golfers so surely the playing field is benefitting evenly in terms of all golfers stand to gain the same percentage distance increase/decrease?

No, all golfers didn't stand to gain the same percentage distance increase/decrease.
_________________________________________

Contrary to what Brent loves to claim. I really don't care how long professionals hit the ball.  What I do care about is golf architecture, and quality golf course architecture is being threatened by two things:  1) How far big hitters hit it.   2) How much farther big hitters hit it than average golfers.  We no longer fit on the same golf courses. 

David

I was being serious. I just don't believe that all the increase in distance can be pinned on technology alone. Golf is no longer a game for fat accountants and bank managers. People that in the past would not have played the game now view it as a sport requiring skill and ability comparable with other sports.

Take a good look at the average tour or top level amateur player. These guys devote as much time to fitness, flexibility and strength training as they do to hitting golf balls. These guys are athletes in every sense of the word. That translates into more powerful and explosive movements in the golf swing than has ever been seen in the past. Maybe the best form of measurement to illustrate the point would be to focus on the club head speed of todays pros/top level golfers and compare them to those in decades gone by. While a fraction of the increase may be attribute to lighter shafts etc, it cant be denied that guys these days simply swing harder and faster.

To me, a different calibre of golfer is now able to interact with architecture that have never been able to in the past. Do we not see more players having to determine strategy based on hazards that traditionally have been out of their reach? Do we in fact have the "average player" now experiencing courses in a way that in the past has been restricted only to the longest or best players? In fact, is architecture and strategy now more in the public focus than it has ever been?

While I dont agree with courses being lengthened due to the play of only a small percentage of players, greenspace amongst cities and urban environments is only becoming more important. Those extra parcels of land that were acquired to ensure long expansive courses could prove very beneficial from an environmental and sociological standpoint in the long run. To me, its a better alternative than courses selling up land "not needed" because they may only require 80% of their current land if the ball suddenly stopped going so far. All that sold off land would simply be developed into housing or similar. No way it is going to be put back into farmland or bush for the good of the region.

Just trying to bring a slightly different view on the matter.

Brent Hutto

Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #142 on: February 16, 2014, 06:59:17 AM »
Take a look at Trackman or similar results. To a good approximation, a player who produces 10% more clubhead speed hits the ball just about 10% farther. There is darned near an exactly proportional relationship between clubhead speed and distance if the ball is struck squarely and the launch conditions are optimized.

There is not and never has been any ball that flies 20% farther when hit 10% harder or any such nonsense. At least not when we're talking about solid contact, optimal launch and realistic clubhead speeds (90mph and up). I don't know where you guys keep getting this turbo boost for good players argument but it is unrelated to observable results.

Presumably you are thinking of the difference between some player 30 years ago swinging at 110mph with launch conditions far from optimal with a player today swinging at 120mph with optimized launch. In which case damened right, the 120mph swinger hits it way more than 10% farther. But comparing like for like optimized equipment, distance tracks clubhead speed quite proportionally. You may detest how far that distance is, but it's not a problem with proportionality. You just don't like the ball going as far as it does.

David M,

Strong players hit the ball farther than average players to exactly the extent that they produce more clubhead speed and make better contact than average players. I think I do understand your point. You want strong-player distances to be only slightly longer than you or I hit it so that you and I can play the same courses that the strong players play.

That's your ideal world, isn't it? The 85mph slicer and Dustin Johnson can both enjoy the same course just by choosing 6,000 and 6,500 yard tees You just need to acknowledge that you are asking for SOMETHING to negate the fact that in any normal equipment scenario Dustin Johnson will hit the ball much, much more than 10% longer than you or I can. It's not that equipment gives him an unfair or disproportionate advantage, it's that you want his ball performance penalized (or handicapped if you like) in service of your dream to see him playing a course you could play and from similar distances.

Pat M,

Quote
The manufacturers deliberatgely developed balls that would go farther for those with higher swing speeds.
In addition, spin rates were lowered, making the ball fly straighter.
The manufacturers catered to a select sub-group and with hi tech equipment and balls provided them with an advantage not offered to the mediocre or poor golfer

I think you have the facts correct except for the illogical spin you put on it. Yes, the manufacturers noticed that balata balls preferred by elite players were spinning way, way too much. Costing distance and going too far offline. So yes, they responded with balls that spin less thereby increasing distance and going straighter.

And the best players very quickly switched to them. Because they still played OK around the greens while having none of the severe disadvantages (when hit hard with a driver) of the old balata balls.

The manufacturers always catered to the top players. For decades they catered to them by making interchangable, lumpy, expensive balata balls that didn't worth worth a damn when hit hard with a driver. Because that's what the elite players demanded. It's suprising to me that such a situation persisted as long as it did but never underestimate the conservatives of the golf establishment. Once the better balls were made available, the manufacturers "catered" to elite players with the new product that those elite demanded. It just took a long time for them to realize they could have their short-game performance and still get full advantage of their strength and technique with a driver.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2014, 08:01:22 AM by Brent Hutto »

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #143 on: February 16, 2014, 09:46:26 AM »
Jim,  No ball would do that.  But getting rid of the balls that make the long guy much longer without benefitting the short guy would be a step in the right direction.

Does the ProV1x benefit golfers with moderate swing speeds?   Would getting rid of it hurt anyone other than the longest hitters with the fastest swing speeds?    And if these guys had to hit the ProV1 (oh the horror) wouldn't they still be substantially longer than everyone else?  


David,

My understanding of the difference between the ProV1 and the ProV1x is that it provides high spin players a ball with lower spin. For those high spin players this will add distance. For very low spin players this will create less carry distance. I'm really not sure where the breakpoint in spin rates is here but it's probably higher than someone hitting the ball 200 yards is able to generate on solid strikes.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #144 on: February 16, 2014, 10:04:00 AM »
Jim,

I think your latest choice is based on what I consider to be a false assumption.  You wrote,  "Roll back the ball/equipment to make sure those one or two do are not able to shoot those scores while making the game less enjoyable for the other 150 . . . "

I do not accept the premise that the game would be made less enjoyable for the other 150.  This seems to be almost everyone's assumption, but it just isn't the case.  The ball could easily be regulated in such a matter that the masses were not adversely impacted in the least.  (Hell, if they wanted to, the USGA could even incentivize the manufacturers to make the game easier for the masses, without making it easier for the pros.)

Let me give you one simple real world example to hopefully help explain.  The ProV1x.   If the USGA banned balls with the distance characteristics of the ProV1x how would that impact the average golfer?   The answer is that it wouldn't.   The average golfer gets no relative benefit from balls like the ProV1x.  Most just don't swing fast enough.  Many pros don't even get a benefit from balls like the ProV1x, because not even they have enough swing speed!  Eliminating such balls would have no negative impact on the vast majority of golfers, but it would chip away at the growing gap between the longest hitters and the shortest hitters. 

This is just an example, but hopefully you get the picture.



David,

Optimization at the higher levels of golf have made your statement above completely inaccurate. Take the ProV1x away from Dustin Johnson and he spends an hour in the lab fitting the regular ProV1 to a shaft-head combination and he hasn't lost a yard...I guarantee it.

In addition, I could do the same thing as a local amateur golfer...

In my opinion, the equipment argument requires a single fell swoop going back a significant percentage. All this would do is delay the point you guys fear we've reached, that too many courses are deemed obsolete and it's ruining the challenge presented by the architecture.

I disagree with your assessment of the root cause for changes to architectural. I blame the course owners and club leaders for chasing a false hope.

Provide an interesting golf course in good condition with a culture focused on accessibility, pace of play and camaraderie and you'll have a successful golf operation.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #145 on: February 16, 2014, 10:53:10 AM »
If there was less variance of distance between players I think skill is more rewarded. JMO

Right now Dustin Johnson can apply several times the effective power into his golf swing as I can. The result is he hits the ball with about 1.5 times the clubhead speed that I produce. And the result is the ball traveling about 1.5 times farther than mine does.

You're proposing that the game would be better if a much stronger player producing 1.5 times my clubhead speed somehow could be rendered unable to hit the ball more than, what, 1.2 times my distance? 1.3 times?

How is that a better game? If you really want to equalize things, make him play a lumpy golf ball that renders him no more like to make a 20-foot putt than I am. Wouldn't that really be a better game?

I can't believe you are asking these questions on this website.

The game would be better, because golf course design would be relevant to more players.

Besides, do you really want golf to be like basketball, where only the physical freaks excel?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #146 on: February 16, 2014, 11:03:55 AM »
Brent I think it would be better to limit distance, as I watch normal golfers on my course everyday distance does not really help golfers to score.It does allow them to hit it deeper in the woods though.If we keep this up courses are going to need to be longer and wider.I have seen 30 Hcp that can produce similar speeds as Dustin.

None of this is true.

Step away from the keyboard son. You don't know what you are saying. Of course what Lyndell is writing is true. It apparently just does not coincide with your close minded miniature imagination.

Can anyone discuss, even in layman's terms, the specs that they'd like to see on a "rollback" ball?

Plot the graph of spin vs. loft for a solid ball. Make a reasonable variation from that slope be the regulation on spin. I.e., if you want high spin off the wedge, you will have to accept high spin off the driver. If you want low spin off the driver, you have to accept low spin off the wedge (this is the ball the 30 handicappers Lyndell mentioned need to keep their ball on the golf course). The manufacturers could produces balls with different characteristics, and the players could choose the ball they felt fit their game the best.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Brent Hutto

Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #147 on: February 16, 2014, 11:11:39 AM »
Jesus, we're all just posting the same old boilerplate from the last 15 times this topic has been discussed.

I'm taking the pledge. Not a word from me on this topic again. Never, ever.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #148 on: February 16, 2014, 11:19:53 AM »
...
Used to be the biggest hitters on the PGA Tour were content with playing a ball that didn't work worth shit for players of their ability. One day they woke up and started using a ball that did not cost them most of the advantage of their power and technique. Overnight the slightly-longer hitters were much longer because they quit tying one hand behind their back with silly balata and rubber-band balls.
...

It used to be that players like Lee Trevino and Chi Chi Rodreguez (sp? played a ball that worked very well for their power and technique. I'll take guys like that any day over a dozen J.B. Holmes or Keegan Bradleys and the ilk. Where is the Lee Trevino of this crop of golfers? Where is modern guy that doesn't hit it excessively long, but will eventually stand amongst the all time greats of the golfing world?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2014, 11:41:58 AM by GJ Bailey »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is it not a big deal Dustin Johnson hit 3w/6i on the 18th green at PB?
« Reply #149 on: February 16, 2014, 11:25:20 AM »
...
Why should golf be the only sport seeking to nullify the advantage gained by proper technique, dedicated training and genuine athleticism? The same technology is essentially available to all golfers so surely the playing field is benefitting evenly in terms of all golfers stand to gain the same percentage distance increase/decrease?

Because Golf Data Solutions can't measure the subconscious control that a player like Bubba Watson used to hit a huge hook to win the Masters.

I swear all you guys want is a bunch of robots hitting balls monsterous distances. They should start and Iron Byron tour for you guys to go watch.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

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