Opens at Pinehurst to be set up the same

[Garland Bayley]

They want the players to be hitting same clubs both weeks.

http://golfdigest.stats.com/golf/story.asp?tour=PGA&i=20140208104341717066208&ref=hea&tm=&src=

[Ronald Montesano]

Are the trajectory, spin rate and end result of a female pro's 6-iron the same as those of a male professional? If not, why is this important to the USGA?

[Richard Hetzel]

What sort of condition will the course be in for the women after the men play on it for straight week?

[BHoover]

Are the trajectory, spin rate and end result of a female pro's 6-iron the same as those of a male professional? If not, why is this important to the USGA?

The whole thing seems more like a big publicity stunt put on by the USGA. Same course in back-to-back weeks has a great chance to be a disaster.

[Joe_Tucholski]

Are the trajectory, spin rate and end result of a female pro's 6-iron the same as those of a male professional? If not, why is this important to the USGA?

The whole thing seems more like a big publicity stunt put on by the USGA. Same course in back-to-back weeks has a great chance to be a disaster.

Professional golf is entertainment.  The back to back idea is clearly for publicity and it is working.  I've never watched an LPGA event (unless flipping channels and nothing else was on) but I will watch the womens US Open this year.  I like to think I'm not alone in this.

[Jim Nugent]

Davis said the USGA wants the men and women to hit the same range of clubs.  If the men hit 6-to-8 iron into a green, they want the women to hit the same. 

I think this is a cool idea.  I'm very much looking forward to seeing how the course plays for the men and the women -- and how they play the course.  Any predictions from those who know Pinehurst for winners, winning scores, etc? 

[Tom_Doak]

The whole thing seems more like a big publicity stunt put on by the USGA. Same course in back-to-back weeks has a great chance to be a disaster.

They are trying to figure out how it's going to work for the Olympics.

As to set-up, I like the general idea, but I wish they had the balls to do what I suggested for the Olympics ... have the men play it from the women's yardage one day, and have the women play it from the men's yardage one day.  That would be a real education!  My guess is that the women would really struggle from 7300-whatever but that the men wouldn't go nearly as low from 6400 as most people expect.  But if they did, so what?  They're all playing the same course.

[David Whitmer]

As to set-up, I like the general idea, but I wish they had the balls to do what I suggested for the Olympics ... have the men play it from the women's yardage one day, and have the women play it from the men's yardage one day.  That would be a real education!  My guess is that the women would really struggle from 7300-whatever but that the men wouldn't go nearly as low from 6400 as most people expect.  But if they did, so what?  They're all playing the same course.

That would be fun and very interesting, but we know they'd never do it. They (the USGA) always talk about the U.S. Opens being a stern test, and I assume they would conclude that the men playing from 6,400 yards would not be a stern enough test.

They would never admit it, but I suspect the USGA has a number in mind relative to par that they want the winner to shoot. And they are very good at hitting that number, with a few exceptions (see: Congressional 2011). At my club when I was a pro, we hosted the men's Ohio Amateur Championship one year. I went out with the tournament committee every time they came to the course prior to the event. One day I asked them if they have a 72-hole number they'd like the winner to shoot. They responded, "Yes, 6 under par." The winning score that year? Six under par.

[jeffwarne]

Well if they want the men to hit the same clubs into greens, they sure don't have to worry about hitting out of each other's divots.
though that can get completely skewed as many male players hit few drivers in Tour events, let alone US Opens.

Seems like width and fairway hazards are going to determine where the men drive it and what clubs they use off the tee.
and it seems like most women will drive it as far as they can.

will be interesting to see how that translates into similar #irons in.
What hybrid for the women exactly does a 6 iron equate to?

[Tim Martin]

Are the trajectory, spin rate and end result of a female pro's 6-iron the same as those of a male professional? If not, why is this important to the USGA?

The whole thing seems more like a big publicity stunt put on by the USGA. Same course in back-to-back weeks has a great chance to be a disaster.

How so?

[BHoover]

The whole thing seems more like a big publicity stunt put on by the USGA. Same course in back-to-back weeks has a great chance to be a disaster.

How so?
[/quote]

When I say that it could be a disaster, I say that with respect to course conditions.  I think the men are going to beat the course up in the week before the women get a chance to play.  What happens if the course is soft from rain?  The fairways are going to get pretty chewed up.  What are the greens on a tournament course like following a tournament? Seems like the greens could be pretty beat up and stressed out.

[Josh Tarble]

I think it's being overblown. 

The greens may have a bit more stress from being mown tighter, but it's not like #2 doesn't pump out the groups anyway.  I would guess there will almost be less play over that week than a standard week of resort play.

[Tim Martin]

The whole thing seems more like a big publicity stunt put on by the USGA. Same course in back-to-back weeks has a great chance to be a disaster.

How so?

When I say that it could be a disaster, I say that with respect to course conditions.  I think the men are going to beat the course up in the week before the women get a chance to play.  What happens if the course is soft from rain?  The fairways are going to get pretty chewed up.  What are the greens on a tournament course like following a tournament? Seems like the greens could be pretty beat up and stressed out.
[/quote]

There is always a chance that any course can soften up due to rain. I don't see what that has to do with the men playing it a week before. We don't have to go back any farther than last year at Merion to know that.

[David Whitmer]

I was in Pinehurst the first week of October. I had lunch one day with the superintendent of #2 (my friend's wife is good friends with the super's wife) and I asked him about the conditions for the two Opens. He said he's not at all worried about it. He said other than the long hours for he and his staff, he won't be dealing with anything he doesn't normally deal with, which is a lot of play.

[Tim Martin]

I was in Pinehurst the first week of October. I had lunch one day with the superintendent of #2 (my friend's wife is good friends with the super's wife) and I asked him about the conditions for the two Opens. He said he's not at all worried about it. He said other than the long hours for he and his staff, he won't be dealing with anything he doesn't normally deal with, which is a lot of play.

David- I think you and Josh Tarble hit the nail on the head as far the amount of play the course usually sees vs what they will get at the US Open. I would add that after the cut is made on Friday that there will be considerably less traffic on the weekend than the course would normally see.

[BCowan]

''The greens may have a bit more stress from being mown tighter, but it's not like #2 doesn't pump out the groups anyway.  I would guess there will almost be less play over that week than a standard week of resort play.''

   Have you ever seen greens after a major?  After an Open they come close to losing the greens.  Bent greens in June in pinehurst where the temp can be 110 deg if a heat wave comes.  I played #2 in June when it was 110.  If the USGA would just keep them really firm and slow them down a touch (more pin placements) it would be really cool!  If they go to Mini Verde or Champion after the tourney, they won't have to worry.  For everyday resort play the greens run around 9-10.5, not 12-13.5 Open speeds, that is a huge difference, plus the pro's hit much more greens in reg than resort/member play!  They also limit watering the greens unlike resort play.

   And the skeptics about the woman, there are woman that put it out there and could out drive 65% of the guys on this site.  To suggest that woman used 6 iron hybrids is a good laugh.  I think them doing back to back opens is really cool and cost effective.  The 2012 Woman's Open at Balckwolf run played 6,954 yards

[BHoover]

I may be in the minority on this site, but I don't want to see the USGA slow down the green speeds.  I wouldn't want to see 13+ everyday, but I LOVE seeing super fast greens during the US Open.

If the USGA is going to slow down the greens for the sake of hosting back-to-back events at #2, then I think it's a mistake.

[Tim Martin]

I may be in the minority on this site, but I don't want to see the USGA slow down the green speeds.  I wouldn't want to see 13+ everyday, but I LOVE seeing super fast greens during the US Open.

If the USGA is going to slow down the greens for the sake of hosting back-to-back events at #2, then I think it's a mistake.

Are you now saying that Pinehurst will have the greens at a speed that is slower than USGA wants? Come on.

[BHoover]

I may be in the minority on this site, but I don't want to see the USGA slow down the green speeds.  I wouldn't want to see 13+ everyday, but I LOVE seeing super fast greens during the US Open.

If the USGA is going to slow down the greens for the sake of hosting back-to-back events at #2, then I think it's a mistake.

Are you now saying that Pinehurst will have the greens at a speed that is slower than USGA wants? Come on.

I didn't say that.  I'm responding to different posts.  I have no idea what speeds the USGA is going to use.  I'm merely speculating here.  Is that wrong?

To be perfectly honest, and upon further reflection, I really don't care how the USGA sets up the course for the Women's Open nor do I care what shape the course will be in for the Women's Open.  I'm not going to watch the Women's Open. So why the hell should I care how it plays for the women?

[Tim Martin]

I may be in the minority on this site, but I don't want to see the USGA slow down the green speeds.  I wouldn't want to see 13+ everyday, but I LOVE seeing super fast greens during the US Open.

If the USGA is going to slow down the greens for the sake of hosting back-to-back events at #2, then I think it's a mistake.

Are you now saying that Pinehurst will have the greens at a speed that is slower than USGA wants? Come on.

I didn't say that.  I'm responding to different posts.  I have no idea what speeds the USGA is going to use.  I'm merely speculating here.  Is that wrong?

To be perfectly honest, and upon further reflection, I really don't care how the USGA sets up the course for the Women's Open nor do I care what shape the course will be in for the Women's Open.  I'm not going to watch the Women's Open. So why the hell should I care how it plays for the women?

Either own your statement or let it go. Now you are "speculating" that the greens speeds will be slowed down. Where do you come up with this stuff? Somehow you make the leap that the speeds will be compromised because they are hosting back to back events. 

[Howard Riefs]

I didn't say that.  I'm responding to different posts.  I have no idea what speeds the USGA is going to use.  I'm merely speculating here.  Is that wrong?

11.5

http://golfweek.com/news/2014/feb/08/setups-pinehurst-be-same-men-women/

[BHoover]

Either own your statement or let it go. Now you are "speculating" that the greens speeds will be slowed down. Where do you come up with this stuff? Somehow you make the leap that the speeds will be compromised because they are hosting back to back events.  

I'm a lawyer, I don't have to own my statements.  I get to play with language for a living.  

So I was speculating.  Big deal.  I hope the back-to-back Opens works out for the USGA.  If it does, then great.  If it doesn't, I don't care.  

I don't think we'll even notice how the course is set up because we won't get to watch any actual golf in between all the commercials during the boradcast.

[Tom_Doak]

I didn't say that.  I'm responding to different posts.  I have no idea what speeds the USGA is going to use.  I'm merely speculating here.  Is that wrong?

11.5

http://golfweek.com/news/2014/feb/08/setups-pinehurst-be-same-men-women/

With respect, the number that they print six months before a championship is not always the number they wind up at during the championship.  Remember when they said Sebonack would be at 13?

I doubt that they will change their intended green speed for the U.S. Open just because there is another event the next week, but it's not such a bad thing that they will have to keep the grass alive, is it?  Then again, they are converting the greens to bermuda immediately after the Women's Open, so maybe they don't care if the greens are dead by the end of the second week.

[Tim Martin]

Either own your statement or let it go. Now you are "speculating" that the greens speeds will be slowed down. Where do you come up with this stuff? Somehow you make the leap that the speeds will be compromised because they are hosting back to back events.  

I'm a lawyer, I don't have to own my statements.  I get to play with language for a living. 

So I was speculating.  Big deal.  I hope the back-to-back Opens works out for the USGA.  If it does, then great.  If it doesn't, I don't care.  

It's a shame that you don't care about the success of the USGA's two biggest tournaments. You sound like quite a booster for our great game.

[Steve Salmen]

It's going to be a fantastic event for the men.  However, it could be a disaster for the women.  The course and fan areas could get torn up pretty good.  It could rain hard leaving a muddy course and little time to get it in shape.  Also, attendance could fall very low if people leave after the mens event. 

If they spaced it out, it could be fine but that would not be possible at Pinehurst.  Good luck to the USGA.