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Ryan Coles

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #75 on: February 11, 2014, 04:42:29 PM »
Never mind all that, will they still accept the county card north of the border?

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #76 on: February 11, 2014, 04:49:51 PM »
Folks in Cornwall, whoops, I mean Kernow, also have desires for independence, so all herein intending to head for Buda at St Enodoc/Perranporth etc in Sept will have to ensure that they bring along their passports and visas and must at all times salute when seeing this flag -



Kernow also has it's own language and those planning to attend are recommended to learn the following phrase before arriving - "Kernow, Kernow y keryn Kernow" (Cornwall, Cornwall, we love Cornwall). Failure to learn this phrase will result in the individual concerned 3-putting every green played at any course in Kernow.

:) :) :)

atb

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #77 on: February 11, 2014, 05:14:40 PM »
Jon

You don't get it.  You are not a citiizen of the US so your anaolgy is once again way off base.No, it is exactly the same  Scots are citizens of the UK and Scotland is part of the UK.  Its not a hard issue to understand.Apparently it is for you. It is about voters on the electoral role. If it is just about nationality then all UK nationals should be able to vote  Besides, a ton of your "ex pats" are Scots paying tax which supports Scotland yet haven't lived there in yonks.Really? Please name some  Additionally, some Scots may consider moving back if the country is economically healthy.Its not to bad at the moment  This vote has huge consequences for both these sections of Scot ex pats.How?

We fundamentally disagree on what nationality and citizenship confers upon people of a country so there is no point in carrying on. I suspect it is. However it is the situation in the UK and Scotland that is relevant



Alfie Ward

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #78 on: February 11, 2014, 05:36:00 PM »
"I am not English.  That has nothing to do with the question at hand.  In fact, with the continued advance of devolution, it can be argued that the foks most affected are Brits without a home country nationality; effectively the elimination of "British" concept.  I know my father in law never believed in the idea of a British citizen.  He always thought that one should become either Welsh, English, Scottish or the northern variety of Irish (his term  Cheesy)  to be a subject of the queen.  I am not sure how he proposed to do such.  All I can say is I could never feel as if I am a member of any home country.  In fact, it often feels odd to even be the vague "British" because there is so much I don't understand as any Englishman or whatever would.  I missed out on 35 years of British cultural indoctrination  Cheesy so I will never completely understand the culture and society the way a native Brit would. Football is one issue for starters...and don't get me started on cricket.... Wink.  In nearly all ways I am still fundamentally American and I think as such.  I mean, what other Brit supports the Wings and Tigers?  Lets just say I have to translate an awful lot of what I experience into an American experience to get a decent grip...and sometimes that simply can't be done.  Some things in this country, good and bad, are taken for granted, as in its not up for discussion; whereas in the States these same things are hotly debated...and vice versa." 

Ciao

Sean, I hear what you're saying but like Behr's work I'll have to try harder to understand it. :) Anyone can achieve a decent grip providing the thumbs aren't missing - then it gets more difficult.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #79 on: February 12, 2014, 05:52:38 AM »
Peter - I think you have hit the nail on the head here. There is definitely a desire for greater localisation within the context of the overall European framework. Scotland is a good example of this: I do not think the campaign for Scottish independence would have got this far if there weren't the 'safety net' of the EU sitting behind it.

The interesting thing is that there are different mindsets and motivations in regions across the EU. Umberto Bossi and the Northern League wanted northern Italy to have more freedom from the south because they felt it was holding them back economically. Catalonian nationalists resent the dominance of Castillian Spain, something that dates in its current form from Franco's days, but actually has hundreds of years of history (as far as they are concerned) - though Catalonia is also in many ways Spain's economic engine.

The guarantee of free trade that the EU provides - as well as its other powers - enables regionalism/localism to take hold. At the moment, the overwhelming majority of power within the EU lies with national governments. I would not necessarily assume this will be the case in the future.

Adam

I think you are right to point out the wider debate on Scottish independence in the EU. The Spanish have already stated that Scotland will need to apply to join the EU and won't get automatic membership as a new nation state, and for obvious reasons they will oppose Scotland joining.

The whole localism thing is also quite topiucal. Traditionally the nationalists criticised Westminster for centralising power, however now that they have power in Scotland the first thing they have done is centralise the police and fire services, shutting down regional offices, and effectively politicising the top jobs in the cops and fire service. Doesn't bode well for local decision making if they achieve independence.

Niall

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #80 on: February 12, 2014, 01:21:58 PM »
Niall,

dead right on the centralisation of power under the SNP. Bit of a masterstroke this afternoon too when they found out that Westminster is not interested in a monetary union. Having accepted they do have a liability for part of the UK debt they now say they will renege on paying that debt. So no currency and now no finance as who will invest in a country that refuses to honour its debts.

Had they have been able to show that Scotland was able to finance its own currency and be economically viable I might very well have voted yes. I fear today saw the SNP put a big hole in the independence boat. A sad day for those who dreamed of it :'(

Jon

Colin Macqueen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #81 on: February 12, 2014, 06:48:52 PM »
Goodness gracious Jon!!

If that is the level of political nouse within the SNP then 'tis well that they fail!

Cheers Colin
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Alfie Ward

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #82 on: February 12, 2014, 07:01:17 PM »
Absolutely fantastic news  :o

I suppose that'll be it all over now.

Let's hope that it only gets better tomorrow ? Aren't politics the damdest thing  ;D


David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #83 on: February 12, 2014, 10:00:16 PM »

BCowan

Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #84 on: February 12, 2014, 10:06:14 PM »
Great news!  Scots can form their own currency and also have market driven ones through the transition!  This is shaping up to be very important issue for the world

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #85 on: February 17, 2014, 08:17:58 AM »
Rich what is Mrs G's plan for money in the event of independence? Scotland couldn't tell the rest of the UK what to do and if they use the £ like Panama uses the US$ they have zero control over fiscal policy. Europe have said no way to the Euro and Spain will object to EU membership, Salmond's last resort is to accuse everyone of bullying him!
Cave Nil Vino

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #86 on: February 17, 2014, 10:25:50 AM »
Any "Vote Salmond get Trump" posters appearing yet in the NE?!
:) :) :)
atb

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #87 on: February 17, 2014, 10:52:07 AM »
Rich what is Mrs G's plan for money in the event of independence? Scotland couldn't tell the rest of the UK what to do and if they use the £ like Panama uses the US$ they have zero control over fiscal policy. Europe have said no way to the Euro and Spain will object to EU membership, Salmond's last resort is to accuse everyone of bullying him!

Mark,

did you hear the First Minister's reply this morning? Basically he thinks nobody has the right to appose what is decided in Scotland. A speech that where facts were entirely absent and he did what he always does to any sign of opposition and rubbished the idea that the rest of the UK would be allowed to not enter into a monetary union and that the EU would be forced to accept Scottish membership on Scotland's terms.

What is more frightening is that it is obvious there is no plan B for the yes campaign.


Jon

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #88 on: February 17, 2014, 11:21:16 AM »
Rich what is Mrs G's plan for money in the event of independence? Scotland couldn't tell the rest of the UK what to do and if they use the £ like Panama uses the US$ they have zero control over fiscal policy. Europe have said no way to the Euro and Spain will object to EU membership, Salmond's last resort is to accuse everyone of bullying him!

No more vino for you tonight, Marco!
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #89 on: February 17, 2014, 06:04:25 PM »
Someone equated his stance to giving up your membership to the gym and expecting to be able to carry on using it as you please. The man is deluded.
Cave Nil Vino

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #90 on: February 18, 2014, 07:31:32 AM »
Do you know, the indepenence debate in Scotland has engaged the public like no other political issue in my lifetime. There is a lot of discussion and not all of it is party political. People are genuinely engaged and looking for answers and willing to look at both sides to see what's best for them.

Unfortunately it appears the politicians are falling behind in actually joining in the debate that's going on all around them. Without wishing to be partisan one way or another, I'd suggest that the biggest culprit is the SNP. There response to the other main parties declining to share the Pound in threatening not to pay their share of national debt was juvenile and reckless and something that no responsible politician should have uttered.

Unless they stop trying to reduce the debate to name calling they are simply going to polarise views based on prejudice and ultimately fail to engage with the portion of the population willing to consider the case. Just my opinion.

Niall 

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #91 on: February 18, 2014, 12:51:51 PM »
Rich what is Mrs G's plan for money in the event of independence? Scotland couldn't tell the rest of the UK what to do and if they use the £ like Panama uses the US$ they have zero control over fiscal policy. Europe have said no way to the Euro and Spain will object to EU membership, Salmond's last resort is to accuse everyone of bullying him!

I love it, my motherland blackballing Scotland.  I suppose it makes sense if Spain sees Scotland not as a contributor but a fellow recipient queuing for a slice of a declining pie.  The Scots may wish to familiarize themselves with the Garth Brooks song "Thank God For Unanswered Prayers".

As to a foreign country's use of the U.S. dollar having "zero control" over fiscal policy, that is just not true.  They do lose control of monetary policy- I sometimes wish that it would be taken out of the hands of the "non-political" but highly political Keynesian Federal Reserve- but it does have the benefit of providing some discipline to fiscal policy by removing the temptation to monetize what governments do best: over-promise, over-spend, over-borrow, inflate, and ultimately, having to greatly devaluate the currency to the detriment to their people.  It is no accident that Argentina has been a basket case for the past 50 years while Panama, El Salvador, and Ecuador which use the U.S. dollar have relatively good economies (though these countries might be well advised that past performance is no guarantee of future results).

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #92 on: February 18, 2014, 05:32:57 PM »
Rich what is Mrs G's plan for money in the event of independence? Scotland couldn't tell the rest of the UK what to do and if they use the £ like Panama uses the US$ they have zero control over fiscal policy. Europe have said no way to the Euro and Spain will object to EU membership, Salmond's last resort is to accuse everyone of bullying him!

I love it, my motherland blackballing Scotland.  I suppose it makes sense if Spain sees Scotland not as a contributor but a fellow recipient queuing for a slice of a declining pie.  The Scots may wish to familiarize themselves with the Garth Brooks song "Thank God For Unanswered Prayers".

As to a foreign country's use of the U.S. dollar having "zero control" over fiscal policy, that is just not true.  They do lose control of monetary policy- I sometimes wish that it would be taken out of the hands of the "non-political" but highly political Keynesian Federal Reserve- but it does have the benefit of providing some discipline to fiscal policy by removing the temptation to monetize what governments do best: over-promise, over-spend, over-borrow, inflate, and ultimately, having to greatly devaluate the currency to the detriment to their people.  It is no accident that Argentina has been a basket case for the past 50 years while Panama, El Salvador, and Ecuador which use the U.S. dollar have relatively good economies (though these countries might be well advised that past performance is no guarantee of future results).

Lou,

did Panama, El Salvador, and Ecuador have to get permission from the USA to use the dollar or could they use it even if the USA was not in favour?

Jon

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #93 on: February 18, 2014, 05:35:15 PM »
Lou the Basque region want to split from Spain, any agreement by Spain to a Scottish move would weaken their position with the Basque, hence their strong objection to Scotland joining the EU and/or the Euro.
Cave Nil Vino

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #94 on: February 18, 2014, 06:16:45 PM »
Lou the Basque region want to split from Spain, any agreement by Spain to a Scottish move would weaken their position with the Basque, hence their strong objection to Scotland joining the EU and/or the Euro.

Spain also fears the idea of an independent Gibraltar and Catalonia.
Let's make GCA grate again!

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #95 on: February 18, 2014, 09:36:05 PM »

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #96 on: February 19, 2014, 03:56:17 AM »
How about self-rule for the Orkneys and Shetlands? ;)

http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21596525-scotlands-independence-referendum-more-booty-canny-folk-shetland-and-orkney

Harris & Lewis have just become Europe's most desirable island destinations according to Tripavisor

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-26247865

with two others The Orkney Islands and Isle of Mull also in the top 10.

We would first have a independent Highland campaign to rid ourselves of the scourge of the south east based capital Edinburgh (or new London as it will be known) followed a few decades later by a campaign to free the Islands from the Highlands and its south east based capital of Inverness (new Edinburgh)

The question is will the Islands force the The Highlander's Republic, Lower Scotland and the reduced Rest of the UK into a currency union due to their holding all the offshore gas and oil rights ;D

Jon

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #97 on: February 19, 2014, 04:22:03 AM »
Like I've said before we'll divert the oil pipeline to Newcastle, who says the oil is Scotland's?
Cave Nil Vino

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #98 on: February 19, 2014, 09:36:11 AM »
Like I've said before we'll divert the oil pipeline to Newcastle, who says the oil is Scotland's?

The United Nations, under Maritime, or so I have been told. Vis a vis Newcastle, once Scotland is Independent, the Geordies will beg for inclusion in the new entity.  At the very least they'd have a damn good chance of playing in Europe once they join the SPL....
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Scottish Independence
« Reply #99 on: February 19, 2014, 11:48:53 AM »
Like I've said before we'll divert the oil pipeline to Newcastle, who says the oil is Scotland's?

The United Nations, under Maritime, or so I have been told. Vis a vis Newcastle, once Scotland is Independent, the Geordies will beg for inclusion in the new entity.  At the very least they'd have a damn good chance of playing in Europe once they join the SPL....
As an adoptive Geordie I disagree.  We're no great fans of Cameron's London mafia running the country for us and don't see the alternative as any better for the North East but, frankly, why would we want to be run by a lunatic like Salmond?

As for European footie, I went to see the Toon last week as a Spurs fan and can confidently report that finishing second in Scotland would be a challenge for the worst Toon side I have seen in years.  I'd back Inverness Caley Thistle to beat that shambles.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.