Scottish Independence

[Gary Slatter]

The Open is property of the R&A, would they stay in Scotland or move closer to London?

[Rich Goodale]

Gary

The last time a cabal of Sassenach members tried to move the R&A from Scotland to England was ~ 100 years ago, and they were sent homeward, tae think again, but it is an interesting thought experiment....

Where exactly would the R&A be moved to?  Royal Blackheath?  The Belfry?

Which courses would replace The Old Course, Turnberry, Troon and Carnoustie in the rota? Rye?  Chart Hills?  Swinley Forest?  Painswick?

What would they do with the old clubhouse?  Turn it into a B&B?

Would Scotland as the "home of golf" be eventually assigned to the dustbin of history that includes the game of kolven and whatever game the Chinese claim to have played many moons ago?

What effect would it have on the referendum if it became known that such a move was being discussed..........


Rich

[Chris Kane]

Rich, all that uncertainty you refer to makes it clear that a vote for independence is just too big a risk! 

[Sean_A]

I am in favour of Scottish Independence.  Its time to cut Scotland loose - whether they want it or not. That said, however Salmon rigs this election with kids voting and Scots living across the border not getting to vote  ; the remaining few Scots in Scotland won't be silly enough to vote for independence because most know the oil won't last forever.

Ciao  

[Ben Malach]

As a Canadian I find the topic of Scottish Independence endlessly interesting. But I do believe that countries can house multiple nations under one flag but the proper federalization of the state must occur first. I believe that due to this referendum if Scotland fails to succeed we will see a larger devolution of power from Westminster to the National Assembly in Edinburgh. Now what this has to do with golf I have no idea. But for the sake of my friends and the health of the Scottish Economy I hope that they vote No.         

[Tony_Muldoon]

But where would it stop?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21934564   

[Jon Wiggett]

I am in favour of Scottish Independence.  Its time to cut Scotland loose - whether they want it or not. That said, however Salmon rigs this election with kids voting and Scots living across the border not getting to vote  ; the remaining few Scots in Scotland won't be silly enough to vote for independence because most know the oil won't last forever.

Ciao  

That's because your living in England. Alex Salmon made a major error in judgement in not insisting on a national vote involving the whole of the UK. Polling has shown that the younger generation is even more against independence than older ones.

Ben,

Westminster has already promised more powers for Holyrood including tax raising ones.

Tony,

yes, interesting one eh! What is really needed is an English Parliament based in say Birmingham. I am surprised that the Tories are not for this one because they would dominate it for decades to come. As a footnote the northeast rejected devolution a few years back though maybe that was more to do with the trust people placed in its chief proponent John Prescott

Jon

[Mark Chaplin]

Scotland's oil?? Interesting, currently it's the UK's oil so maybe 25% of it belongs to Scotland, as only about 8% of the population of the UK are Scots perhaps that should be their take of the oil?

[Brian_Ewen]

I am in favour of Scottish Independence.  Its time to cut Scotland loose - whether they want it or not. That said, however Salmon rigs this election with kids voting and Scots living across the border not getting to vote  ; the remaining few Scots in Scotland won't be silly enough to vote for independence because most know the oil won't last forever.
Ciao  

Sean
AGAIN, its not Scots that are voting, but Citizens of Scotland.

[David_Tepper]

"its not Scots that are voting, but Citizens of Scotland."

Brian -

Isn't it citizens of the United Kingdom who reside in Scotland who will be voting?

DT 

[Sean_A]

I am in favour of Scottish Independence.  Its time to cut Scotland loose - whether they want it or not. That said, however Salmon rigs this election with kids voting and Scots living across the border not getting to vote  ; the remaining few Scots in Scotland won't be silly enough to vote for independence because most know the oil won't last forever.
Ciao  

Sean
AGAIN, its not Scots that are voting, but Citizens of Scotland.

I hadn't realized there were citizens of Scotland.  I know Rihc thinks the Scots are special, but I was under the impression they were subjects of the queen, just like the remainder of us plebs.  In any case, how can it be that Scots aren't voting?   

I still can't get my head around not allowing Scots who were born in Scotland with Scottish parents a vote on this issue, but it sure is generous of Salmond to allow these Scots to apply for citizenship if and when independence is gained.  If there ever was an issue Scots should be voting on, this is it.  Mind you, I bet ex pats were straw polled and Salmond didn't like the numbers.  Still, even with a rigged vote, I would be shocked if Salmond carries the day.

Ciao   

[Adam Lawrence]

I am in favour of Scottish Independence.  Its time to cut Scotland loose - whether they want it or not. That said, however Salmon rigs this election with kids voting and Scots living across the border not getting to vote  ; the remaining few Scots in Scotland won't be silly enough to vote for independence because most know the oil won't last forever.
Ciao  

Sean
AGAIN, its not Scots that are voting, but Citizens of Scotland.

I hadn't realized there were citizens of Scotland.  I know Rihc thinks the Scots are special, but I was under the impression they were subjects of the queen, just like the remainder of us plebs.  In any case, how can it be that Scots aren't voting?   

I still can't get my head around not allowing Scots who were born in Scotland with Scottish parents a vote on this issue, but it sure is generous of Salmond to allow these Scots to apply for citizenship if and when independence is gained.  If there ever was an issue Scots should be voting on, this is it.  Mind you, I bet ex pats were straw polled and Salmond didn't like the numbers.  Still, even with a rigged vote, I would be shocked if Salmond carries the day.

Ciao   

You may well be right about the straw poll, Sean, but I think also you can't ignore how massively difficult assembling an electoral roll of qualified expat Scots would be.

FWIW I agree with you about the likely result.

[Colin Macqueen]

David,
As an "ex-pat" with Australian and British citizenship I know I do not have eligibility to vote. I presume this is on the basis of not having lived in Scotland for 45 years and thus not paid U.K. taxes.

My question is do eligible voters have the ability to have an absentee vote? I have half (6) of my brothers and sisters visiting Oz over September 2014 so that could be hall a dozen votes AGAINST independence that go in Salmond's favour! None of my siblings think it is a good idea and they pretty much cover the spectrum from professional to trades to welfare recipients.

I felt that those I met who were in favour seemed to have a more than romantic view of the nature of the beast!  I also got the feeling that the Sassenachs were all in favour of the Scots seceding. Guid riddance an a' that…..!

Cheers Colin

[Sean_A]

Adam

Wouldn't it be easier to place the onus on the voter?  Meaning, those interested apply to vote. If its easy to say one is a Scot it can't be hard to figure out if one is child/grandchild of a Scot.  You may get the odd unqualified vote, but surely it is better to offer the vote to all Scots and accept some scammers are out there rather than exclude a significant percentage of Scots from voting. 

Col

I would love to see the same proposition voted on in England as in Scotland. Though it doesn't make any sense to do so given Cameron and the boys are pro union.  It would be awfully embarassing to have a higher voter turnout than for a general election and even if as few as 20% voted in favour of disollution (I think far more are for independence) it would be a blow.  Nearly everybody I speak with concerning Scotland are in favour of disollution or don't care.  Either way, most believe there should be no Scots in Parliament, which of course begs the question of why not disollution then?   

I did jest previously, but in truth I don't mind the idea of independence if some way can be worked out that the two economies, defence and police systems are strongly linked somehow.  I don't have a clue as to how this can be done, but I think its vital for the overall strength of the economy and defence of the island if the two interests act as one. 

Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

Sean,

You have to be on the electoral role in Scotland to be able to vote.  I would imagine this is the case in the USA and that people voting for the governor of say California have to be on the Californian electoral role. Or can people who have been living in New Jersey for the last 30 years also vote because they were born in California or maybe one of their parents comes from there or maybe just a grand parent?

It is for the reasons you state that the UK is not voting on this and of course to avoid the problem of the voter in Scotland saying no when the rest of the country say yes. As said in past posts, it is about time England got its own parliament based probably in Birmingham which would go a long way to solving many of the problems caused by/at Westminster.

You meet very few people who are not for independence of Scotland living as you do in England and I have yet to meet any one in favour living up here in Scotland.

Jon

[Mark Pearce]

Jon,

Sean's post merely confirms that he knows some odd people.  I don't know many in England who are seriously in favour of independence, rather than jokingly saying that they think we'd be better off without Westminster being run by Scots.

[Jon Wiggett]

Mark,

I do not know if it is just the Scots we'd be better of without running Westminster

Jon

[Sean_A]

Sean,

You have to be on the electoral role in Scotland to be able to vote.  I would imagine this is the case in the USA and that people voting for the governor of say California have to be on the Californian electoral role. Or can people who have been living in New Jersey for the last 30 years also vote because they were born in California or maybe one of their parents comes from there or maybe just a grand parent?

Jon

Its not quite the same thing voting on some poxy environmental proposal as it is your country seceding from a union  ; bad analogy both in terms of importance and level of goverment. Citizenship of a state is determed by residence.  This is not the case on a country level in the US and UK for that matter.  One may never live nor indeed set foot in the US and still be a citizen; not so for a state.  

Mark - not strange in the least. Just normal folks who can't understand why Scots are in parliament and if they are kicked out of parliament, can it be truly said there is a Union?

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

Sean,

These people you know are stupid enough to question why the same Scots who are, currently, governed from Westminster should have representatives there?  The concept of democracy is a problem in the West Midlands, it seems.

[Mark Chaplin]

Of  course the R&A will stay in St Andrews, visiting is a twice a year is a nice jolly from the Home Counties. Visiting foreign lands and spending the hammered "Jock" or whatever currency Salmond makes up will make it cheaper as well!

[Sean_A]

Sean,

These people you know are stupid enough to question why the same Scots who are, currently, governed from Westminster should have representatives there?  The concept of democracy is a problem in the West Midlands, it seems.

I think you need to burn that page you have taken from Mucci's book - it isn't clever or attractive  .

Then I guess you are against the Scottish Parliament - or have you heard one exists  ?  It is quite odd that a country continuing the long process of devolution is afforded an extra layer of representation that folks south of the border don't enjoy.  That isn't to say I am for an added layer of government - heaven forbid - but at some point any reasonable person would question how the representative system currently works.  You may think these people stupid, but they likely think just as highly of you.

Ciao   

[Mark Pearce]

SEan,

Added layer of government or not, as it stands, decisions are taken in Westminster which govern life in Scotland.  It is absurd to suggest that the Scots should not be represented in Westminster.  IF they do go for independence then that would, of course, change.  Frankly I'm rather more concerned that we have a Westminster government driven almost entirley by the needs and desires of that portion of the electorate that live and work in or around London than I am by Scottish representation.  The other issue, of course, is that half the Scots in Westminster don't represent Scottish seats. 

[Mike Sweeney]

Interesting article for comparison of Puerto Rico in the NY Times yesterday:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/us/economy-and-crime-spur-new-puerto-rican-exodus.html?_r=0

[Sean_A]

SEan,

Added layer of government or not, as it stands, decisions are taken in Westminster which govern life in Scotland.  It is absurd to suggest that the Scots should not be represented in Westminster.  IF they do go for independence then that would, of course, change.  Frankly I'm rather more concerned that we have a Westminster government driven almost entirley by the needs and desires of that portion of the electorate that live and work in or around London than I am by Scottish representation.  The other issue, of course, is that half the Scots in Westminster don't represent Scottish seats.  

Is it just as absurd that Scots have a vote in strictly English/Welsh matters when they have their own parliament?  You make it out to be very black and white - this is far from the case.  It can easily be argued that Scots MPs have a conflict of interest in certain matters simply due to devolution.  

Its especially wild to have Westminster MPs in the SNP when they have their own parliament.

Ciao

[BCowan]

Great read!  

http://nomocracyinpolitics.com/2014/02/07/secession-and-messianic-statism-evaluating-the-current-union-of-the-states-part-1-by-allen-mendenhall/

Mike Sweeney

    Sounds like Puerto Rico ''Central Planning'' isn't working out.  People fail to mention Estonia, Hong Kong, and Singapore as Secession success stories!