Scottish Independence

[Sean Walsh]

Jon,

If you're going to attempt to put a hole in the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund you might want to find a better source.  That article conflates all debt by Norwegians (Public & Private) into the debt Norway owes.  This is the same conflation many right wing politicians make when they are attempting to scare people about debt.  Another, Gross debt, is often used in Australia by the LNP to produce a very high figure and allow the News Ltd papers to scream about the sky falling in.  Nothing of the sort, unfortunately for the alarmists.  Both Norway and Australia appear to have low government debt.  It appears Norway's is around 28% of GDP (30 on the wiki figures below).  A trivial figure when the wealth fund is over 800bn (15% return in the last 12 mths).  

For comparison Debt to GDP ratio (%) (note these figures are from wikipedia not the greatest source I know but for the sake of the argument I think they are likely to give a reasonable approximation)
Austalia - 29
France - 89
Germany - 81
Spain - 85
UK - 90
US - 72
Russia - 12
Norway- 30
Sweden - 38
Chnia - 31

[Wayne_Kozun]

Regarding the currency, I don't know that anyone can stop Scotland from using the Pound, the Euro, or the Vietnamese Dong for that matter.  This issue is often discussed here in Canada when the issue of the separation of Quebec arises.

One of the issues becomes that without its own currency Scotland has no say in the monetary policy of its currency and that such policy may be totally inappropriate for Scotland at times (just like European monetary policy is often wrong for many member states of the Euro).  One could argue that this has been the case since the Union, but at least Scotland has had some say in monetary policy set by the (inappropriately named) Bank of England and the Chancellor of the Exchequer has often been Scottish including two of the last three who held the office from 1997-2010.

[Malcolm Mckinnon]

My daughter's tuition at University of Edinburgh is fixed in Pounds Sterling for all four years of her Veterinary School education so I am a keen observer of the Independence movement.

Last year, at a reception for accepted students in New York City, I asked one of the representative professors, an Irishman,  what he thought of the chances for independence and he replied that he felt it was highly unlikely.

This January we spent eight nights in Edinburgh and with the local family we know (husband Scottish/wife Sussex, England) were informed that they are very much against independence. She works for the University of Edinburgh and had some sharp words for the way UK Universities vary tuitions by location. Her son went to Oxford but was charged a higher rate than an Englishman. Same is true vise versa for Edinburgh but the complaint is that admissions freezes out Scots for more profitable Englishmen, et al.

My ancestors left Scotland (some involuntarily after the Battle of Worcerster where they were deported to the "new" world) centuries ago yet I find this upcoming vote interesting to observe.

Edinburgh is a unique and wonderful City. Here is their Christmas Fair ....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKg73uOXi48

Malcolm Mckinnon

[Malcolm Mckinnon]

Way way OT,

Really cool video of Edinburgh in winter.....

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a6d_1376798663

[Mark Chaplin]

Sean the Wikipedia figures are so far out its daft for instance the USA figure is for 2008 pre-crash. The OCED figures for 2013 are;

Australia   32.4%
France.     113%
Germany.   86%
Spain.        99.6%
UK.            107%
USA.          104.1%
Norway.      34.2%

[Sean Walsh]

Mark,

Although they're out - as expected - they still illustrate that Norway's debt is by no means out of control.  Especially when they have a well managed nest egg they are sitting on. 

[Jon Wiggett]

Sean W,

whilst it might conflate the private and public debt it should be pointed out that the public debt is the vast majority at 644billion compared to the 13 billion of private debt. It should also be noted that the yes campaign use the reference of how much the fund would be worth to each person in Scotland. Could they be trying to give people the feeling that that money would have been in their bank account I wonder .

It might be that Norway's debts are not out of control but it is not correct to say that they have access to these funds either. They have not been invested in Norway and so the Norwegians have not had any benefit from them.

Jon

[Mark Chaplin]

Sean no denying that, also no denying a standard income tax rate of 45-50%. At the moment that's politically and socially unacceptable in London or Sydney. Personally I'm in favour of low taxation and more personal responsibility as the State is rarely prudent with my money!

[David_Tepper]

"Sean Connery denied Scottish vote".....Very interesting article on bloomberg.com

I did not realize that 17% of Scotland's population was not born there.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-10/johnny-english-trumps-james-bond-in-scottish-referendum.html

[Jon Wiggett]

"Sean Connery denied Scottish vote".....Very interesting article on bloomberg.com

I did not realize that 17% of Scotland's population was not born there.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-10/johnny-english-trumps-james-bond-in-scottish-referendum.html

David,

I am surprised it is only 17%. If Mr. Connery chose to live and pay his taxes in Scotland then I am sure he would get the vote too.

Jon

[Mark Bourgeois]

So what are the vexillological implications of Scottish independence for the UK? The red, white and black one looks the best but the competition is pitiable.

[Sean_A]

Mark

My guess is no change mainly because I think the independence strangely includes keeping the monarchy - no?  I think the Union Jack is flag born of royal union rather than political union, so with the monarchy still in place there really isn't any need to change the flag. 

Ciao

[Mark Bourgeois]

All this rigamarole about independence yet they'll keep licking the queen's boots? Aussie-level faux independence.

[Jon Wiggett]

Mark

My guess is no change mainly because I think the independence strangely includes keeping the monarchy - no?  I think the Union Jack is flag born of royal union rather than political union, so with the monarchy still in place there really isn't any need to change the flag. 

Ciao

So you listen to 5live too or was R4

Jon

[Sean_A]

Mark

My guess is no change mainly because I think the independence strangely includes keeping the monarchy - no?  I think the Union Jack is flag born of royal union rather than political union, so with the monarchy still in place there really isn't any need to change the flag. 

Ciao

So you listen to 5live too or was R4

Jon

Jon

You lost me.  I haven't followed the media "debate" at all.  I spose you can call me anti-news 

Ciao

[Niall C]

Well, who needs a vote on Independence when all the supposed Unionist parties are falling over themeselves to give the Scottish Parliament tax raising powers irrespective of the outcome of the Referendum. Say what you like about Alex Salmond and the SNP, and judging by most opinion polls the Scottish people aint buying what there selling, but they have won the policitical contest if not the actual vote.

Niall

[Jon Wiggett]

Niall,

to be fair there was talk about doing this before a date for the referendum was set and I do think that had the question been about devolution-max it would have had a large majority but then this has little to do with Scotland ruling its own fate hence the 'yes' campaigns fetish with remaining shackled to Westminster in a sudo-independence as they currently propose.

Jon

[David_Tepper]

Not directly related to the independence vote, but interesting & well worth watching:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2kTGLUh_c4

[Niall C]

David

I got about 10 seconds in to it and then read the subtitle advising that the source of the material was Andy Wightman which is when I switched off. Wightman is a political campaigner on land reform much loved by the current administration. Some of his research is dubious, IMO, with some nonsense conclusions one of which, and I paraphrase from memory, was that the greatest factor in determining the value of land in this country was taxation.

Niall

[David_Tepper]

Niall -

I am sorry you did not watch the show all the way thru. At the very least, you could have told me which information presented was debatable, if not mistaken. I thought the views presented on the show were reasonably balanced.

Regarding the subject of taxation, the show did imply that the owners of the large land estates in Scotland get very favorable tax treatment on their land holdings. In fact, it was mentioned that a Danish fellow who owns a large estate in Scotland is taxed much more heavily by the Danish government on his Scottish property than he is taxed by the Scottish government. 

As an owner of property in Scotland (with my Council Tax Bill right next to me on my desk here in San Francisco ), I am certainly interested in topics like this. To date, has the SNP addressed the subject of land reform & taxation in the campaign for independence?

DT 

[Niall C]

David

Fair point, I haven't seen the programme, however given Wightmans input I'd have my doubts about balance no matter how it appears to be. As it is I'm not inclined to spend half an hour hunched over a computer watching it just to get angry about some subjective nonsense inspired by a pseudo researcher, not when there's the bunker shaping at Balmedie to be discussed.

Niall

[Rich Goodale]

Interestingly, recently the polls are showing a slow but persistent move from "NO" (i.e. stay in the UK) to "YES" (i.e. see if Scotland can survive on its own).  The more I think of this issue the more I think that the "NO" camp (e.g. Gordon Brown, Alistair Darling, et. al.) are suffering from the Stockholm Syndrome.  They have been prisoners of"Team GB" for so long that they have forgotten what it means to be Scottish and what it is like to be free.

If you have a vote, vote "YES."

Rich

[Mark Pearce]

Rich,

Why are you, an American, so fiercely pro-independence?  I know a few Scots and have to say that you appear, from your postings here, to be the most pro-independence person I know.

Mark

[Rich Goodale]

Rich,

Why are you, an American, so fiercely pro-independence?  I know a few Scots and have to say that you appear, from your postings here, to be the most pro-independence person I know.

Mark

Possibly, Mark, because one of my great-great-great-etc.-grandfathers (Capt. John Parker) commanded the Minutemen at Lexington green in 1775 whose efforts eventually removed the yoke of British tyranny that led to the USA.  In general, I think that Scotland would be a better place if it were independent rather than grovellingly dependent.

Rich

[Niall C]

As a proud Scot and one who is happy to be part of the UK until something better presents itself, which it hasn't so far, I take exception to being depicted as being grovellingly dependent on other parts of the UK. Scotland is not under the British yoke, it is part of Britain and is not a colony. Any other interpretation is just bonkers.

Niall