1917 Article on Langford

[Sven Nilsen]

I put this article (March 25, 1925 edition of the Palm Beach Daily News) up in the "Florida in 1928" thread with a bit more commentary, but wanted to post it here as well.  

[Nigel Islam]

Sven your recent work on Billy Langford has been terrific!

[Sven Nilsen]

Stumbled across a December 1914 "The American Golfer" article that discusses Langford turning pro as an architect.

http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/AmericanGolfer/1914/ag132k.pdf

The article notes he had laid out a new 9 hole course at Valparaiso, Ind. and was planning new bunkers at the Losantiville CC in Cincinnati.

Sven

[Sven Nilsen]

Another possible Langford, this time in St. Joseph, MO (from The American Golfer, March 1917).

[Sven Nilsen]

The Topeka notation from Langford in the 1921 Golfer's Magazine article is a bit of a puzzle.

I did some digging into Topeka CC.  The common story is that Maxwell extended the course to 18 holes in 1938.  This runs counter to reports in the Annual Guides, which have the course transitioning from 9 to 18 holes as early as 1923.

I recall some discussion of Brad Klein proving that TCC could not have been a Ross as he would have to have been taken off of a train to do the work, but I don't remember the specifics of the conversation, including the dates in question.  Anyone have any more information on this?

Sven

Here's a follow up on the Topeka citation from earlier in the thread.  As noted above, TCC was expanded from 9 to 18 holes at some point in the early 1920's.  The following article from The Topeka Daily State Journal (May 7, 1921) supports Langford's statement in the May 1921 Golfer's Magazine article that he was working in Topeka.



To compare to the modern version, here's an aerial of the course aligned to match the plan in the article.  Many of the holes noted in the plan are visible today.

[Sven Nilsen]

A followup article from The Topeka State Journal (Sept. 12, 1922) discussing the progress of the construction of Langford's design.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

As A member at Texarkana CC in Texarkana Arkansas,
I can certainly chime in with what a super course it is.
Original Langford/Moreau routing still in play, unforunately many of the original green complexes were deemed too severe and butchered in the 60's.
That being said there are certainly enough Langord features in view to let the trained eye know whose design it was.
Many of the original fairway bunkers are now grass bunkers, but clearly visible,and the tree lined nature of  majority ofthe course gives it a very intimate feel.
Proximity of tees to greens very evident that the course is the original routing.
Always welcome to host a gca get together should anybody ever want to make the trip.

[RJ_Daley]

MWP, what are the chances the membership there would ever support a competent resto-reno expert to come in and recapture the design ideals and flavor of the L&M genre.  Perhaps a restoration to exact dimensions and yardages might not be workable, but adjustment for modern equipment and turf conditions could be explored. 

On the other hand in this sparse economy for GCAs, a few of the archies doing this work have probably already approached the TCC.

Good luck...

[Chris Clouser]

Sven,

A couple of other comments.  Maxwell only renovated the existing 18 holes at Topeka.  Not sure where the report ever came from that he added nine holes, but that is incorrect.  The Gary CC in Gary, Indiana is now Innisbrook CC I believe.  I believe Maxwelton Golf Course in Syracuse, IN is also a L&M course. 

Surprising information on Tulsa CC.  I always thought that was a Tillinghast original.  Guess you learn something every day. 

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

MWP, what are the chances the membership there would ever support a competent resto-reno expert to come in and recapture the design ideals and flavor of the L&M genre.  Perhaps a restoration to exact dimensions and yardages might not be workable, but adjustment for modern equipment and turf conditions could be explored. 

On the other hand in this sparse economy for GCAs, a few of the archies doing this work have probably already approached the TCC.

Good luck...

Ron Pritchard did some work some time ago, anf by his admission in his earlier days and not what was best for the "restoration" of the course.
But 100% to his wonderful credit did offer to come back at a reduced rate to do a more true to the original architect restoration.
Just not feasible money wise in my opinion.
As at most clubs, the course is in great shape, who craes if it is not in its orginal form.
Especiall if it is going to cost "me" the member any money.
You know the drill!!!!

No other approaches, but a rather prominent architect active on this site is planning a visit over the winter and I will see what he thinks when he has seen the course for the first time

[Sven Nilsen]

Sven,

A couple of other comments.  Maxwell only renovated the existing 18 holes at Topeka.  Not sure where the report ever came from that he added nine holes, but that is incorrect.  The Gary CC in Gary, Indiana is now Innisbrook CC I believe.  I believe Maxwelton Golf Course in Syracuse, IN is also a L&M course. 

Surprising information on Tulsa CC.  I always thought that was a Tillinghast original.  Guess you learn something every day. 

Chris:

The R9/A9 for Topeka comes from Cornish & Whitten (just another chink in their armor). 

Maxwellton is on my list, but the dates I've seen (later in the 20's) don't coincide with the dates of the articles mentioned earlier in the thread.

As for Tulsa, I don't think Langford's course was ever built.  There was a good deal of information lost from this thread when we lost two weeks of posts back in the beginning of the year, and I believe this was discussed in a bit more detail back then.  The article that Jim posted supports the idea that Langford's plan was never used and that the new course was all Tillie.

Sven

[Nigel Islam]

Sven,

A couple of other comments.  Maxwell only renovated the existing 18 holes at Topeka.  Not sure where the report ever came from that he added nine holes, but that is incorrect.  The Gary CC in Gary, Indiana is now Innisbrook CC I believe.  I believe Maxwelton Golf Course in Syracuse, IN is also a L&M course. 

Surprising information on Tulsa CC.  I always thought that was a Tillinghast original.  Guess you learn something every day. 

Chris:

The R9/A9 for Topeka comes from Cornish & Whitten (just another chink in their armor). 

Maxwellton is on my list, but the dates I've seen (later in the 20's) don't coincide with the dates of the articles mentioned earlier in the thread.

As for Tulsa, I don't think Langford's course was ever built.  There was a good deal of information lost from this thread when we lost two weeks of posts back in the beginning of the year, and I believe this was discussed in a bit more detail back then.  The article that Jim posted supports the idea that Langford's plan was never used and that the new course was all Tillie.

Sven

That issue with the lost information has made this particular thread a touch hard to follow since I was very involved in posting on the thread at the time. I was trying to remember how much of the Dawson Springs info I had provided you this morning. I got some crazy looks the day I showed up at the DS library asking about the golf course at the mental institution

[Tim_Cronin]

Sven,

A couple of other comments.  Maxwell only renovated the existing 18 holes at Topeka.  Not sure where the report ever came from that he added nine holes, but that is incorrect.  The Gary CC in Gary, Indiana is now Innisbrook CC I believe.  I believe Maxwelton Golf Course in Syracuse, IN is also a L&M course. 

Surprising information on Tulsa CC.  I always thought that was a Tillinghast original.  Guess you learn something every day. 

Gary CC was renamed Innsbrook CC in 1986. The membership sold it to new owners in 2003.

[Sven Nilsen]

Sven,

A couple of other comments.  Maxwell only renovated the existing 18 holes at Topeka.  Not sure where the report ever came from that he added nine holes, but that is incorrect. 

Chris (or anyone else that knows):

Looking at the L&M plan for Topeka CC and the modern day aerial, there are a number of holes from the plan that do not exist today (the holes on the East and South borders of the course), and a series of holes that were added at some point (those that are West of the clubhouse). 

I see a couple of possibilities:

1.  The 18 hole course built in the early 20's was different from the L&M plan (for whatever reason), and Maxwell's work was basically a remodel of the routing that exists today.

2.  The course was built to L&M's specifications, and altered at a later date with new land being acquired for the new holes, possibly by Maxwell, or possibly at a later date.

If you have any information on exactly what Maxwell did, or if someone else came through post L&M and added the new "Western" holes, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

Sven

[Jeff_Brauer]

Looks like they bought some more land to the south in order to put house lots along the east and north perimeter, and also buying enough to add lots around the three new holes to the south.  Not sure who did it, not sure when.  But not an uncommon practice, to both get lots for members, and/or make a profit if the club was struggling.  

Might have been as early as 1925-9, at the height of the roaring 20's and before the depression, or even after WWII. Probably not in the depression, but then, with courses like PD and Southern Hills being built in that era, maybe Topeka was doing okay and taking advantage of depressed land prices.  Speculation, so if anyone knows, it would be interesting information......

Also, looks like they got rid of many short holes on the back nine, which they probably didn't like, and got a bigger maintenance area out of the new plan as well.

Given the lack of irrigation on the NW corner, which was the original 2nd, my guess is they use that as an informal practice area now.

[Sven Nilsen]

Another one for the Langford file.

The following article (Logansport Pharos-Tribune, June 25, 1931) on his work in Logansport notes he planned a course for the Orchard Ridge CC in Fort Wayne, IN.  The first nine holes at Orchard Ridge date back to 1925, with sources noting the second nine were added later by Frank MacDonald.  The course was reworked by Art Hills later on.

[Nigel Islam]

What was the "championship course in Pensacola?" I know they did Eglin AFB but was unaware they did anything west of that.

[Bill_McBride]

What was the "championship course in Pensacola?" I know they did Eglin AFB but was unaware they did anything west of that.

Nigel, sent you an IM.  I am unaware of any Langford course in Pensacola.  "Wild Bill" Melhorn, a pro, designed the Osceola Golf Club which is the city muni these days.  I do not know who designed the A.C. Read course aboard NAS Pensacola.  That would be the only possibility I think.  The Pensacola CC's original nine was laid out in 1902, the second in the mid '20's.  Attribution has always been to members, Mr. Blount and one other. 

[Sven Nilsen]

Nigel and Bill:


Pretty sure the reference to Pensacola is to the Eglin course.  The geographical references back then could be pretty imprecise, and its the only course I know of that they worked on in that part of the state.


Sven

[Bill_McBride]

Nigel and Bill:


Pretty sure the reference to Pensacola is to the Eglin course.  The geographical references back then could be pretty imprecise, and its the only course I know of that they worked on in that part of the state.


Sven

It's a 90 minute drive today from the Eglin course to Pensacola.  Must have been half a day 90 years ago at best. 

[Nigel Islam]

Nigel and Bill:


Pretty sure the reference to Pensacola is to the Eglin course.  The geographical references back then could be pretty imprecise, and its the only course I know of that they worked on in that part of the state.


Sven

To call Eglin, Pensacola is a really big exaggeration even for 1917. I agree that nothing currently there fits the bill though. It's interesting though.

[Bill_McBride]

When did Langford finish designing courses?   The Navy course on NAS Pensacola, A. C. Read, was built in 1942 according to www.floridahistoricgolftrail.com, but there is no original architect indicated on the website. 

[Sven Nilsen]

When did Langford finish designing courses?   The Navy course on NAS Pensacola, A. C. Read, was built in 1942 according to www.floridahistoricgolftrail.com, but there is no original architect indicated on the website.

Bill:


He was still working in the late 1950's.


Sven

[Bill_McBride]

When did Langford finish designing courses?   The Navy course on NAS Pensacola, A. C. Read, was built in 1942 according to www.floridahistoricgolftrail.com, but there is no original architect indicated on the website.

Bill:


He was still working in the late 1950's.


Sven

So maybe that's the mysterious "Pensacola championship course."   Who has the appropriate reference book?

[Sven Nilsen]

Bill:


The article noting the Pensacola course is from 1931.  I doubt it is referencing a course built in 1942.


Sven