Can anyone say...?

[V. Kmetz]

...what the historical architect's fees may have been in the mid 1960s?

Just looking to get an idea...even if you know figures from the era before or after that it would be helpful.

cheers

vk

[RJ_Daley]

That sounds like a question for "Old Man Brauer" 

[Tom_Doak]

It wasn't much.  I remember Mr. Dye saying that his fee for a project in the late 1970's was $80,000.  Sure, the cost of living was bit lower then, too, but not ten times lower.

[Jud_T]

It wasn't much.  I remember Mr. Dye saying that his fee for a project in the late 1970's was $80,000.  Sure, the cost of living was bit lower then, too, but not ten times lower.

For reference $80,000 in 1977 equals $307,000 today.  Of course inflation rates were very high then, so 80k in '79 is 257k today...

[V. Kmetz]

Thanks to all - I found the hard info I was looking for

(Frank Duane was paid $14,000+) in 1964.

cheers

vk 

[Jud_T]

VK,

fyi- 14k in '64 is 105k today.

[Nigel Islam]

Is that the fee paid just to the firm for the architect to pay employees and overhead? Or does it include construction costs? Hom many projects do you have to have going at once to just meet overhead? I realize it is much different depending on the size of the company, but if someone can though out some hypotheticals my curiosity is peaked.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Hard to believe Pete Dye only got 80K in the late 70's, although I recall a few similar stories from an old contractor that he only got that to get started.

For reference, I started with Killian and Nugent in May '77 and I recall they were hoping to get 100K, but recall usually getting   $65-$75K in that era.  We always hoped for $1-1.25M for construction in the 1977-1984 era.

In the pure Wisconsin sand just north of the new sand valley, with a 23-25 year old me running construction with one shaper and a bunch of high school and college kids, we built 18 holes for under $800K.

Seems like we did get $100K for George Dunne on the south side of Chicago, and construction was more expensive, maybe $1.5M.

City of Arlington TX Ditto Golf course had budgeted $1.2, but spent only $900K to put money to other projects.

Exactly what services and project type was the $14K for?  New 18 holes?  Renovation?

Here is the sad part on fees - I recall $15K being about "standard" for a  master plan in those days.  In the recent recession, I have seen others quote that fee today!  Ditto for a full project.  Seems like those days, fees were in the up about 10% of construction (albeit with the architect doing irrigation plans, and more field work) and now, many gca's are charging closer to 5% just to get the projects.

[V. Kmetz]

Hi guys,

I just discovered that the total sum was $18k...the last portion of which was for Frank Duane to plan an additional 9 holes...which were never built.

For 14K, FD...

1. Routed the 18 holes out of virgin woods and farmland over 7-10 days in April 1963. Lowell Schulman needed it fast, because he had taken a huge leap of financial faith and needed to get planning approvals going immediately.

2. Met with original founding club underwriters twice in fall and early winter of 1963 - at the first of these two he had polished the plan, though with no substantive routing changes; the second was to liaison with the first phase (clearing)construction company.

3. in early 1964 (Feb), he reviewed first phase clearing operations and helped parties choose Moore Golf for second phase shaping and grading, as well as on-site alterations

4. was there a lot (I'm told anecdotally) in July and august of 1964 as those 2nd phase operations were fully underway

From this point on (fall 1964) he wasn't able to be there much as he started suffering from the infection/virus Guillaine-Barr syndrome he picked up (some years?) earlier from an insect bite (from the Carribean, I think), which would eventually put him in a wheelchair and claim his life a decade or so later.  Anecdotal reports tell me he was in fact on site in the spring of 1965, but already using a wheelchair indoors and supervising field activities from an all-terrain jeep the club had purchased the 1964-65 winter.

cheers

vk