OT: Presidents Cup-chat thread

[Kalen Braley]

Here's more cowbell on the PC for anyone interested.  Has a few interesting tidbits and side notes..


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/presidents-cup-2019-18-parting-thoughts-from-royal-melbourne/ar-AAK9n7l?li=BBnba9I

[V. Kmetz]

Who knows what would have happened, but it would have shown more about who each of them are as players and competitors. Why did everyone love Tiger playing Ames after his trash talking, or when Vijay's caddie popped off?  Can a golfer stay mentally tough enough to concentrate on execution when there are numerous distractions, not the least of which is despising your competitor. It shouldn't matter, you should concentrate on your own game, but in that environment with one of them rarely criticizing a fellow competitor (IMO rightly so) what would happen on one of the biggest stages?  I'd tune in and don't think it would be any sideshow at all, 2 gladiators in their arena.

Thank you for giving answer and I can't fault you for making that surmise, but I myself don't understand what or how it would show about the playing or competitive character that I won;t have known in advance.  It would be/is a shame (again to me) to have a war or words or a heightened crowd atmosphere or animus cause one golfer to be off his game...it wouldn't be weakness to me (and valor to the better), just a misfortune that the exhibition was altered by animus context.  So if it worked, should the next opponent of the vanquished go the press or do somethign similar because it puts the man off his game.


I've followed golf fairly closely in this Tiger era, and I really don't remember either incident you recounted. And Stephen Ames in particular is about the most forgettable golfer this side of Brandel Chamblee (the golfer).  Even so, saying that "everyone love[d]" the matchups, because of this is not saying why..... AND how do you measure how much it supposedly helped?

Does anyone question any multi-winner (no less major champions Woods and Singh) how tough they are as competitors to begin with?  Anyone (and I mean anyone) who has made the PGA tour and sustained is a f'n tough competitor.

Last for now...I do not look at golfers as gladiators... I played competitive HS and college golf twenty and thirty and forty years ago and have been a participant in Open championship qualifying ....never once felt or was told of feeling like a gladiator...just a nervous golfer trying not to loose my shit, with confidence and doubt coursing through my fingertips.


I marvel at what these guys do...it's ruined to me if the enterprise is compromised (my word) by something because a guy shit talks in front of a microphone.

[Jeff Schley]

Who knows what would have happened, but it would have shown more about who each of them are as players and competitors. Why did everyone love Tiger playing Ames after his trash talking, or when Vijay's caddie popped off?  Can a golfer stay mentally tough enough to concentrate on execution when there are numerous distractions, not the least of which is despising your competitor. It shouldn't matter, you should concentrate on your own game, but in that environment with one of them rarely criticizing a fellow competitor (IMO rightly so) what would happen on one of the biggest stages?  I'd tune in and don't think it would be any sideshow at all, 2 gladiators in their arena.

Thank you for giving answer and I can't fault you for making that surmise, but I myself don't understand what or how it would show about the playing or competitive character that I won;t have known in advance.  It would be/is a shame (again to me) to have a war or words or a heightened crowd atmosphere or animus cause one golfer to be off his game...it wouldn't be weakness to me (and valor to the better), just a misfortune that the exhibition was altered by animus context.  So if it worked, should the next opponent of the vanquished go the press or do somethign similar because it puts the man off his game.


I've followed golf fairly closely in this Tiger era, and I really don't remember either incident you recounted. And Stephen Ames in particular is about the most forgettable golfer this side of Brandel Chamblee (the golfer).  Even so, saying that "everyone love[d]" the matchups, because of this is not saying why..... AND how do you measure how much it supposedly helped?

Does anyone question any multi-winner (no less major champions Woods and Singh) how tough they are as competitors to begin with?  Anyone (and I mean anyone) who has made the PGA tour and sustained is a f'n tough competitor.

Last for now...I do not look at golfers as gladiators... I played competitive HS and college golf twenty and thirty and forty years ago and have been a participant in Open championship qualifying ....never once felt or was told of feeling like a gladiator...just a nervous golfer trying not to loose my shit, with confidence and doubt coursing through my fingertips.


I marvel at what these guys do...it's ruined to me if the enterprise is compromised (my word) by something because a guy shit talks in front of a microphone.

We can disagree on if you want to see if or not.  I do because match play to me is competition at a personal 1 on 1 level, not unlike 2 gladiators.  If you are mentioning your old playing days and didn't for one second feel this way I would propose it wasn't match play representing your country I would guess. 1 on 1 match ups in sports is compared to the original sport from centuries ago gladiator games and I think of that so I reference it.
The 2 instances I referenced aren't hidden niche instances they are fairly well known as I don't think I have followed golf more than you. In both instances it brought out the best in Tiger and both were motivation provided by his competitor comments (Ames) and the caddie of one (Singh).


For Ames: https://golfweek.com/2017/11/04/why-tiger-woods-was-actually-upset-he-beat-stephen-ames-9-and-8/
While the beatdown came 11 years ago, Woods still remembers it vividly. There was no doubt about that as Auriemma told Woods that he’d beaten Ames, and was fumbling for the margin when his guest quickly intervened by simply saying: “9 and 8.”
Oh yeah, Tiger doesn’t forget.
It’s also similar to how he answered at the time of the match.
That victory lives on in golfing lore of course not just for the margin but why Woods was so fiery about it. Prior to the tournament, Ames made comments about Woods, telling reporters before their Round-of-64 match, “anything can happen, especially where he’s hitting the ball.”
Immediately after his huge win that day, Woods said he had been aware of Ames’ comments and when queried about his reaction to them, he had simply replied, “9 and 8.”
As for whether the comments fueled him, Woods added, “You might say that. As I said, 9 and 8.”
Eleven years later, Woods was slightly more effusive in how he took Ames’ words.
“I just think he didn’t all quite respect the way that I can play the game of golf,” Woods told Auriemma. “So I had to show him that I can still play.”

For Singh: It actually came up again just this week as the Presidents Cup with his old caddie Paul Tesori.  https://www.golfdigest.com/story/tiger-woods-waited-20-years-to-get-revenge-on-a-caddie-for-trash-talking-him-at-the-presidents-cup


Again I don't even know what we are disagreeing about, but I wanted to see a 1 on 1 matchup of one guy playing against another who trashed talked him.  This is what competitors want, who said something to disparage me?  I want him. Thus, I want to watch that, as there isn't jabs or hooks in boxing or swords/spears in the gladiator arena; it is the birdies/pars etc. that will do the talking and show which one can be mentally tough enough to execute against a rival under pressure.

[Kalen Braley]

Jeff,

I think a 1-1 golf match is even better than an old style gladiator fight, if for no other reason it lasts so much longer.  Two nasty boys get in the ring, its not gonna last long...but trying maintaining focus and concentration for 3-4 hours with the various highs and lows.  Certainly requires a lot more mental stamina and durability.

P.S.  I had forgot how bad he beat down Stephen Ames, you would think these guys would think twice before opening their pie holes to call out Tiger.

[Thomas Dai]

Wasn’t there some ‘niggle’ between TW and Michael Campbell a year or so before the Ames niggle?
‘Niggle’ is perhaps relative though. Someone’s deliberate niggle could be another persons perceived niggle rather than be genuine niggle and then there’s tongue-in-cheek niggle and even niggle that isn’t disrespectful niggle at all but one party decides to use it as a self-motivational tool.

Best not mention Nick O’Hern I guess! Was it only once or was it twice that NO’H beat TW in matchplay? Oh yes, it was twice.
Atb

[Jeff Schley]

Jeff,

I think a 1-1 golf match is even better than an old style gladiator fight, if for no other reason it lasts so much longer.  Two nasty boys get in the ring, its not gonna last long...but trying maintaining focus and concentration for 3-4 hours with the various highs and lows.  Certainly requires a lot more mental stamina and durability.

P.S.  I had forgot how bad he beat down Stephen Ames, you would think these guys would think twice before opening their pie holes to call out Tiger.

Kalen,IMO golf is mental and being mentally tough is blocking out the past and not worrying about the future to execute the present. It isn't easy under stress and pressure. How these guys can do it under major tournaments is amazing. To play match play can be freeing for you know what you must do each shot compared to your opponnet, not just try and guard against the blow up numbers and birdie freewheeling of medal play. Can you discpline yourself to not think...... "this guy is a jerk and I want to eagle this hole and put him out of his misery!"?  That is a challenge to maintain your discipline and block out non-execution thoughts.
I wouldn't be trash talking TW even when he is in his 60's as I can see him still coming back ala Watson and giving us a thrill for his focus is laser.

[archie_struthers]

 


Haven't always been Tiger's biggest fan for some non-golf reasons (not wife related) but man can he play. Making it harder and harder to not consider him the GOAT. Most said he was best player there all week. The little knock down wedges he hit just ooozed great talent and more importantly he seems to have found his putter.






p.s.     might slide over to AC and put a few quid on Cantley in some future bets, he's ready to win a major or two

[John Kirk]

I better sneak this comment in before it gets too late:
I really enjoyed seeing the golf course for several days.  I've never been there, and may never go to Australia.  My primary sentiment was that the soil, and therefore the course conditioning, cannot be separated from the architecture.  It was really interesting learning from Tom and other commentators about the unique sand and loam soil.  Without that unusual soil that course is not as great, nor may it be possible to build and maintain in that fashion.   

[David_Tepper]

Current McKellar Golf podcast reviewing the Presidents Cup, Royal Melbourne & Tiger with Lawrence Donegan, John Huggan & Mike Clayton:

https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy9lOTE2ZTYwL3BvZGNhc3QvcnNz&episode=YjZjNDRjYTktYTBkYi03ZjcyLTI1YjQtNmFmMDFlZDJiZDY0&hl=en&ved=2ahUKEwjLtqS3gL7mAhWTr54KHbeuC5gQjrkEegQIARAE&ep=6&at=1576631097821

Per Mike Clayton, "Watching Tiger was a masterclass"

 

[mike_beene]

It's too bad they use Quail. Charlotte Country Club is such a cool course with a lot of flexibility.