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Keith OHalloran

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #225 on: May 29, 2016, 10:09:15 PM »

Didn't Tom Doak give Sand Hills a 10 before it was open?


Actually, I gave Sand Hills a 9 in the limited-edition Confidential Guide from 1994, based on walking it in the dirt.  I don't think that was an example of over-hyping a course, it was just an early recognition.


Note that architects are perhaps a bit more qualified than others to rate a course from what they see in the dirt, since it is our milieu when we are working on our own projects.  However, I would have to watch a bunch of people play a course before I gave it a 10.


Fair enough, my mistake. I was trying to make the point that it is possible to recognize a great course very early on.

William_G

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #226 on: May 30, 2016, 12:46:26 AM »

Didn't Tom Doak give Sand Hills a 10 before it was open?


Actually, I gave Sand Hills a 9 in the limited-edition Confidential Guide from 1994, based on walking it in the dirt.  I don't think that was an example of over-hyping a course, it was just an early recognition.


Note that architects are perhaps a bit more qualified than others to rate a course from what they see in the dirt, since it is our milieu when we are working on our own projects.  However, I would have to watch a bunch of people play a course before I gave it a 10.

LOL....missed this earlier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdLIerfXuZ4

who are you?

even to the average goofer, the Sand Hills have 9's everywhere the eye can see :)

It's all about the golf!

William_G

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #227 on: May 30, 2016, 01:15:17 AM »
http://www.sandvalleygolfresort.com/

nuf said...let the golf begin!
It's all about the golf!

Jon Heise

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #228 on: May 30, 2016, 02:46:13 PM »
Yeah, I think we're going to like this place.  The first 9 are fully playable, with the need for a few rough spots to fill in, and some bunker work.  There's some long holes and short holes, but even now you're getting good run out on drives.  Here's a few snaps:


From the drive in... unlike most of the scenery along the way here



The first tee.  Interestingly enough, they have a full tennis court laid out just to the left of it.  Sorry, no pics!



First fairway, what will turn into a fine bunker.



And off to the left... a future hole



The behind the green bunker of the long par 5 Fourth hole.



The flexible par 3 Fifth... thank the clouds for the lighting, eh?



Up the hill to the short par 3 8th.  Like if #9 at Greywalls mated with #17 at Arcadia... so much wind up there.



And the 9th.




Off of the 9th is a small lake that the cottages will overlook.  Make your reservations now...
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 02:47:50 PM by Jon Heise »
I still like Greywalls better.

David Schofield

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #229 on: May 30, 2016, 10:12:11 PM »
I believe the area "inside" of the front nine loop is going to be a driving range/short course combo.  Similar to the south range at Bandon.

Jason Way

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #230 on: June 03, 2016, 06:31:43 PM »
I was up there yesterday.  I'll post some photos later.  The area left of the first hole is an additional/alternate hole that will come back to the start to create a 6-hole loop.  If I understood the explanation, players will hit their tee shots on the par-3 5th, and then their tee shots on that alternate hole, from the same high point teeing area (a la Olympia Fields North).  They will go play out the fifth, and then continue down the hill to their drives on the alternate "home" hole.


We also heard that the grass tennis court between the 1st tee and 9th green that they created for fun is going to stay (at least for a while).
"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

Jason Way

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #231 on: June 03, 2016, 10:50:16 PM »
On our visit yesterday, we played the front nine twice, and 10, 16-18 once.  We also got a peek at the work on the DMK course, which is starting to look really neat.


The way I would describe Sand Valley (that is what both the C&C course and the resort will be called) is:
The expansive feel of Colorado GC or Old Sandwich, with the color and texture contrast of Friar's Head or Streamsong. 


There are some familiar strategic C&C themes and features, but there are also holes (7 and 17 for example) that are unlike anything that I have ever seen.


When we finished playing, we ran into the Superintendent Rob (formerly the Assistant at Kingsley), and he mentioned that the 11th through 15th holes are his favorites on the course.  Those holes were in the rough shaping phase when I visited last fall, and we didn't walk out that way this time, so I don't know how they could be better than the others.  The holes that are open are that good. 


I echo the recommendations of others - go to Sand Valley as soon as you can.


Photos to come in next post...
"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

Jason Way

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #232 on: June 03, 2016, 11:02:21 PM »

The light wasn't the best for photos for much of the afternoon, but you'll get the idea.

#1 - Par 4













#2 - Par 4

















#3 - Par 3





"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

Jason Way

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #233 on: June 03, 2016, 11:10:48 PM »
#4 - Par 5














#5 - Par 3








#6 - Par 4











"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

Jason Way

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #234 on: June 03, 2016, 11:20:37 PM »
#7 - Par 5

















#8 - Par 3











#9 - Par 4











"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

Jason Way

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #235 on: June 03, 2016, 11:28:28 PM »
#16 - Par 4





#17 - Par 3














#18 - Par 5





"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

Phil McDade

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #236 on: June 04, 2016, 10:31:04 AM »
Jason:


Thanks for posting these -- obviously, pretty fascinating stuff. The 9th looks like a candidate as the course's "signature hole" (not necessarily the best one, but the most photographic). One question -- what % of holes would you say have an uphill approach? This is one of the few truly sand-based environments for a golf course in the Midwest, and I'm hoping the designers have utilized the ground game as an element in the overall scheme of building/routing holes.

Eric Smith

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #237 on: June 04, 2016, 11:54:25 AM »

Jason Way

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #238 on: June 04, 2016, 12:08:14 PM »
One question -- what % of holes would you say have an uphill approach? This is one of the few truly sand-based environments for a golf course in the Midwest, and I'm hoping the designers have utilized the ground game as an element in the overall scheme of building/routing holes.


Of the holes we played, 1,2,4,8,9,16,18 have uphill approaches.  Of those holes, the only green where it would be really difficult to run the ball in is 8, but that hole is 135ish from the back tees and 120 from the the regular tees, if I recall correctly.  The 5th is more of a drop shot par 3, but it is also not that long.


The ground game works well on every other hole we played and there are cool slopes, contours and mounds around the greens that allow for creative shot making.  We gave ourselves a rule that shots inside 100 yards could not be played with wedges, and it was a blast.


Once the fescue matures and the turf firms up, a player will be able to play whatever kind of approach floats their boat.
"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

Terry Lavin

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #239 on: June 04, 2016, 03:11:57 PM »
Looks very promising. 8 and 9 comprise a thrilling tandem.  I'll head up in August if all works out.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

DJohnson

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #240 on: July 25, 2016, 11:54:19 AM »
I played here twice last weekend. 

The Fried Egg has a nice review which I can find little to disagree with.

http://www.friedegg.co/golf-courses/sand-valley-review

Beginning with his intro picture "minimalism is a theme from the start at Sand Valley"



The drive in (for now) is about 1/2 mile down a gravel/sand road.  It is manned by some local kids sitting there with a tee sheet, allowing those with tee times to pass (the area loves this development as far as i can tell, because of the local employment in an area that could use some).  The entrance drive is through some dunescape, and that set the tone for me.  This was going to be some adventure golf. 

Since Jason Way's trip - it looks like they may have opened #10, pics and description from Fried Egg:

Hole #10 - Par 5 - 580 yardsOn to the back side and the downhill par 5 10th. A good drive must avoid the large bunker that sits in the middle of the wide fairway. From the fairway, a player is left with a downhill shot to the green protected by a massive bunker on the right side.  A good shot will funnel the ball down to the middle of the green and close to the pin with this punchbowl like green complex.



My comments:  this tee shot confused all of us.  You can see the left-center line bunker in the landing zone.  My first time through, I guessed that there must be some advantage to hitting it left of the bunker in the narrow cut of fairway.  So did my playing partners, so we all aimed there.  Some of them hit it into that slot, some others ( :-[ ) didn't.  In the end, none of us saw any advantage gained by threading that little needle, so next time through just wailed away to the right of that bunker.






At the end of the day:  most of us loved it.  The few that didn't preferred greener traditional U.S. parkland golf.  But not me.  From the very first tee, strategy was required (the better strategies weren't evident until after playing the holes).  Something always lured us into taking more risky lines than advisable.  Take #1 for instance:


With a right to left wind, most of us wanted to cut something off and head more directly towards the green.  After playing it, we turned back and said "there's 80 yards of fairway out to the right" which, while giving a bit tougher approach, was an obvious play that the visual from the tee concealed. 

Views, terrain, strategy, elevation change, ground game, seclusion - that's how I'd sum it up.  I'll be back there as often as I can.

Andy Johnson

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #241 on: July 29, 2016, 01:15:33 PM »
Thanks for the kind words about my review on my site.


I love the way Coore & Crenshaw's design provides infinite shot options around the greens and is extremely playable for players of all skill levels. I am really looking forward to going back and seeing holes 11-15 and the rest of the course mature and grow in.

John McCarthy

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #242 on: July 29, 2016, 01:59:09 PM »
I got an email yesterday that mentioned that all 18 will be open post labor day. 

I went up two weekends ago.  The course is a blast to play and the views are amazing.  The halfway house is open, brats are excellent and the beer is cheap. 
The only way of really finding out a man's true character is to play golf with him. In no other walk of life does the cloven hoof so quickly display itself.
 PG Wodehouse

Derek Holland

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #243 on: July 30, 2016, 11:30:48 PM »
Just played today and WOW  ;D  Played the front nine twice plus four bonus holes (10, 16, 17 & 18). Loved the front. Every hole offered a different challenge. Ground game in play all over the place  :)  17, the punchbowl, was a blast!


That being said, surprised they are going all 18 on September 1st. Still a lot of grow in to go on 16. Maybe the other 5 on the back are closer but was a bit surprised when I heard about the 18.


Regardless, the course is a blast and can't wait for it to fully grow in and mature!

Jim Tang

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #244 on: August 01, 2016, 11:21:38 AM »
For those who have been, how does the DMK course/site/land compare to Sand Valley?

Dan Moore

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #245 on: August 01, 2016, 01:45:53 PM »
The DMK land is similar yet different. Similar in that it probably will have the same pine barrens look, different in that it is designed in and around a dramatic v-shaped dune that is 60' high and 200 yards long. I haven't looked at the land since they started working on it and know the routing has changed a few times as they have updated the overall infrastructure plan for the site in terms of where to put roads, the clubhouse etc. I suspect DMK will work to differentiate the look of the bunkers etc from the CC course to give his course its own personality. Next visit, maybe later this week,  I hope to take a much closer look at Course 2.
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

John McCarthy

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #246 on: August 01, 2016, 01:51:35 PM »
Dan:.

Using the halfway house as the center of the compass, in which general direction is the second course?
The only way of really finding out a man's true character is to play golf with him. In no other walk of life does the cloven hoof so quickly display itself.
 PG Wodehouse

Dan Moore

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #247 on: August 01, 2016, 02:58:59 PM »
North and to the east of the current entrance road.
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Jim Tang

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #248 on: August 01, 2016, 04:08:35 PM »
Thanks Dan.  Would love to hear your thoughts/observations on the second course once you've had the chance to scope it out a bit.  Please post when you return!

Mike Hendren

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Re: Sand Valley first , second , and third course architects, fourth?
« Reply #249 on: August 04, 2016, 10:03:15 AM »
Was there yesterday.  Played 14 holes and walked 4.    One word sums up the course - scale.  It's a very big golf course with extreme fairway width and large greens.  Passed the one ball test with ease.  I enjoyed it immensely and highly recommend a visit.

I will be interested in other opinions, but my main thought is an odd one:  Bandon Trails (a personal favorite) is two points better on any scale and perhaps one of the top ten modern courses in America. 

Mike

Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

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