Golf Digest World Top 100 Courses Ranking

[Mark Chaplin]

Interesting to note Royal Dornoch is a world top 10, Swinley Forest, Trump & Machrihanish are better than Royal St George's. The very pleasant St George's Hill and Royal Melbourne East are world top 100.

[Mac Plumart]

Does it say anywhere, how the lists were really compiled?  Are they using scores from their overseas affiliates' local rankings and trying to fit them together somehow?  The order of inclusion for the foreign courses pretty much follows the GOLF DIGEST KOREA, GOLF DIGEST CHINA, GOLF WORLD UK lists [maybe not the latest GOLF WORLD list, I don't know].  Anyway, the main difference between this ranking and the other world rankings [GOLF, LINKS 100, etc.] is the high rankings of a few courses in the Far East that don't show up anywhere at all on other lists ... likely because they are token entries meant to give the local affiliates something to brag about.  

Tom...below is a cut and past from Darius Oliver's site concerning the construction of this list.

According to the accompanying editorial, the very first Golf Digest World Top 100 ranking was produced via ballots completed by the magazine’s USA based judges and those associated with its 27 international affiliates.

We aren’t sure whether any Australian judges completed the ballot, but interesting that both Barnbougle Dunes and Lost Farm perform better on this list than on the local Australian Golf Digest Top 100. Both are terrific courses, but 11 and 23 in the world does seem generous.

This was Golf Digest’s first ever attempt at a World Top 100 ranking. It will be interesting to see whether any tweaks are made to the ranking process in the years ahead, and how the list changes over time. They might scratch their head at a few of the Asian results when they look back on this inaugural list.

[Frank Pont]

With only Morfontaine and Valderama, Continental Europe seems underrepresented. Seems there could be 2-3 more on the list..... (and I am not sure Valderama belongs on it)

[Dieter Jones]

Dave,

The marketing manager at Barnbougle likes it too.

The marketing manager at barnbougle certainly did not miss the opportunity this list presented. It was discused on ABC radio news all day and got a got go in the Victorian based Herald Sun newspaper.

[Sean Walsh]

It was at least pleasing to see Greg Ramsey get some acknowledgement in the Herald Sun article.  Whatever the whys and what fors of the breakdown in the relationship there, it is appropriate that the impetus he provided is appreciated.

[Dieter Jones]

 Greg who? Perhaps it was not the marketing manager at Barnbougle working hard after all if Greg's name even got a mention.  

Agree with your sentiments Sean

[Ally Mcintosh]

Does it say anywhere, how the lists were really compiled?  Are they using scores from their overseas affiliates' local rankings and trying to fit them together somehow?  The order of inclusion for the foreign courses pretty much follows the GOLF DIGEST KOREA, GOLF DIGEST CHINA, GOLF WORLD UK lists [maybe not the latest GOLF WORLD list, I don't know].  Anyway, the main difference between this ranking and the other world rankings [GOLF, LINKS 100, etc.] is the high rankings of a few courses in the Far East that don't show up anywhere at all on other lists ... likely because they are token entries meant to give the local affiliates something to brag about.  

Tom...below is a cut and past from Darius Oliver's site concerning the construction of this list.

According to the accompanying editorial, the very first Golf Digest World Top 100 ranking was produced via ballots completed by the magazine’s USA based judges and those associated with its 27 international affiliates.

We aren’t sure whether any Australian judges completed the ballot, but interesting that both Barnbougle Dunes and Lost Farm perform better on this list than on the local Australian Golf Digest Top 100. Both are terrific courses, but 11 and 23 in the world does seem generous.

This was Golf Digest’s first ever attempt at a World Top 100 ranking. It will be interesting to see whether any tweaks are made to the ranking process in the years ahead, and how the list changes over time. They might scratch their head at a few of the Asian results when they look back on this inaugural list.

Now you mention it, I think I voted for this... I had forgotten

[Mark Chaplin]

Royal Porthcawl 22 places higher than Royal St Georges and Royal Melbourne East 38 places higher than Sandwich. Have their reviewers ever played or even visited any of the courses??  It's utter garbage.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Royal Porthcawl 22 places higher than Royal St Georges and Royal Melbourne East 38 places higher than Sandwich. Have their reviewers ever played or even visited any of the courses??  It's utter garbage.

I think it must be the collation of results that doesn't quite work... Or the balance of reviewers.

I know I voted very quickly with marks out of 10 for each course I'd played (Royal Porthcawl being the only one of the 3 above). Incidentally, I think Porthcawl is a great course.

[Sean_A]

The two courses which surprise me most of all are Porthcawl #44 and Machrihanish #57.  

I would have thought Porthcawl would be struggling for a place in the top 100 rather than securely ensconced at 44.  

Machrihanish; is it really any better than Brora or Pennard?  I don't think so.  I can't fathom voting for Machrihanish as a clear top 100 course.

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

The two courses which surprise me most of all are Porthcawl #44 and Machrihanish #57.  

I would have thought Porthcawl would be struggling for a place in the top 100 rather than securely ensconced at 44.  

Machrihanish; is it really any better than Brora or Pennard?  I don't think so.  I can't fathom voting for Machrihanish as a clear top 100 course.

Ciao

Think I voted highly for Machrihanish as well.

It has a bit of everything and a stellar set of greens.

[Mark Pearce]

Machrihanish probably isn't top 30 in the UK, I can't see it as top 100 in the world.

[Tom_Doak]

You always get some individual results like those discussed above, when you have a new panel voting on a list for the first time.  Then they see the results of their vote, and adjust their votes a bit the next time around on some of the outliers, to conform a bit more to what "experts" expect.

Sean, I'm surprised to see you of all people using the phrase "a top 100 course".  You know that's a meaningless expression.  There are lots of excellent courses, and some of them make these lists, but there is no bar to clear.

[Sean_A]

Sean, I'm surprised to see you of all people using the phrase "a top 100 course".  You know that's a meaningless expression.  There are lots of excellent courses, and some of them make these lists, but there is no bar to clear.

Sure, top 100 is meaningless in terms of a number of courses because we all know there are at least 150 courses in the top 100  .  On the other hand, for the courses well inside the cut line, such as is the case for Porthcawl and Machrihanish, it suggests they are closer to the magic no brainer top whatever number than they really are.  I mean Porthcawl at 44 really places it in company with courses being considered for top 25-30.  That seems incredible to me.  For Machrihanish, consideration for top 40-50?  There must have been guys who voted it top 25 - simply fantastical. I think more than anything, this confirms my long held suspicions that course quality may not even account for half of the reason for a course ranking.  

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

Sean, I'm surprised to see you of all people using the phrase "a top 100 course".  You know that's a meaningless expression.  There are lots of excellent courses, and some of them make these lists, but there is no bar to clear.

Sure, top 100 is meaningless in terms of a number of courses because we all know there are at least 150 courses in the top 100  .  On the other hand, for the courses well inside the cut line, such as is the case for Porthcawl and Machrihanish, it suggests they are closer to the magic no brainer top whatever number than they really are.  I mean Porthcawl at 44 really places it in company with courses being considered for top 25-30.  That seems incredible to me.  For Machrihanish, consideration for top 40-50?  There must have been guys who voted it top 25 - simply fantastical. I think more than anything, this confirms my long held suspicions that course quality may not even account for half of the reason for a course ranking.  

Ciao

I know at least three people who consider Machrihanish their favourite course in the world... That's got to count for something... And probably did...

[Adam Lawrence]

Sean, I'm surprised to see you of all people using the phrase "a top 100 course".  You know that's a meaningless expression.  There are lots of excellent courses, and some of them make these lists, but there is no bar to clear.

Sure, top 100 is meaningless in terms of a number of courses because we all know there are at least 150 courses in the top 100  .  On the other hand, for the courses well inside the cut line, such as is the case for Porthcawl and Machrihanish, it suggests they are closer to the magic no brainer top whatever number than they really are.  I mean Porthcawl at 44 really places it in company with courses being considered for top 25-30.  That seems incredible to me.  For Machrihanish, consideration for top 40-50?  There must have been guys who voted it top 25 - simply fantastical. I think more than anything, this confirms my long held suspicions that course quality may not even account for half of the reason for a course ranking.  

Ciao

I know at least three people who consider Machrihanish their favourite course in the world... That's got to count for something... And probably did...

I don't know whether I'm one of the three, but I do consider Machrihanish my favourite. But I wouldn't vote it top in a best courses poll.

Flattered to have been quoted in the description of Royal St Georges, but this does have the air of being thrown together, and not edited very well. 'Des' Soutar designed Kingston Heath?

[Adam Lawrence]

<deleted>

[Ally Mcintosh]

Sean, I'm surprised to see you of all people using the phrase "a top 100 course".  You know that's a meaningless expression.  There are lots of excellent courses, and some of them make these lists, but there is no bar to clear.

Sure, top 100 is meaningless in terms of a number of courses because we all know there are at least 150 courses in the top 100  .  On the other hand, for the courses well inside the cut line, such as is the case for Porthcawl and Machrihanish, it suggests they are closer to the magic no brainer top whatever number than they really are.  I mean Porthcawl at 44 really places it in company with courses being considered for top 25-30.  That seems incredible to me.  For Machrihanish, consideration for top 40-50?  There must have been guys who voted it top 25 - simply fantastical. I think more than anything, this confirms my long held suspicions that course quality may not even account for half of the reason for a course ranking.  

Ciao

I know at least three people who consider Machrihanish their favourite course in the world... That's got to count for something... And probably did...

I don't know whether I'm one of the three, but I do consider Machrihanish my favourite. But I wouldn't vote it top in a best courses poll.

You are one of the three. You may not vote it best but I'm sure you have it very high all the same?

Personally, I reckon at some point there has to be a cross over between favourite and best. It's a ridiculous notion to separate them completely.

[Frank Pont]

Sean, I'm surprised to see you of all people using the phrase "a top 100 course".  You know that's a meaningless expression.  There are lots of excellent courses, and some of them make these lists, but there is no bar to clear.

Sure, top 100 is meaningless in terms of a number of courses because we all know there are at least 150 courses in the top 100  .  On the other hand, for the courses well inside the cut line, such as is the case for Porthcawl and Machrihanish, it suggests they are closer to the magic no brainer top whatever number than they really are.  I mean Porthcawl at 44 really places it in company with courses being considered for top 25-30.  That seems incredible to me.  For Machrihanish, consideration for top 40-50?  There must have been guys who voted it top 25 - simply fantastical. I think more than anything, this confirms my long held suspicions that course quality may not even account for half of the reason for a course ranking.  

Ciao

I know at least three people who consider Machrihanish their favourite course in the world... That's got to count for something... And probably did...

I'm not a member at Machrihanish without a reason.....

[Frank Pont]

With only Morfontaine and Valderama, Continental Europe seems underrepresented. Seems there could be 2-3 more on the list..... (and I am not sure Valderama belongs on it)

Frank: I'm thinking Royal Hague as the obvious one (though I haven't played it) - what others do you think merit consideration? El Saler I would probably say misses out given the lofty company...

Royal Hague should easily be in if you believe Ran, Adam and Clayts. But then I am biased.....

Others that should be considered are: Pan, Falkenstein, Fontainebleau (with a good tree removal program).

Next rung would be St. Germain, Kennemer, El Saler, Noordwijk, Zoute....

[Greg Tallman]

If a publication produces 3 lists (US, Outside US and now World) shouldn't their be some correlation between the original 2 and the latter? If not doesn't the significant discrepancies discredit all 3?

[Phil McDade]

Machrihanish probably isn't top 30 in the UK, I can't see it as top 100 in the world.

Name 30 better courses in the UK (I'll concede Northern Ireland should be included, even thought it shouldn't).

[Sean_A]

Deal
TOC
Prestwick
Sunny Old
Sandwich
Rye
Alwoodley
St Enodoc
N Beriwck
Co Down
WHO
ST Georges Hill
The Island
Formby
Cruden Bay
Royal Aberdeen
Dornoch
Portrush
Swinley
Portstewart
Muirfield
Birkdale
Portmarnock
Sunny New
Sligo
Woking
Ganton
Sacred 9
Hoyake
Trump
_________

IMO the above are far superior to Machrihanish and there are more I would take ahead of Machrihanish.  Basically, Machrihanish is incredibly over-rated.  Wonderful front 9, very mixed bag back 9 - its a solid Doak 6 - nowhere near top the lofty rating GD has given it.  As I said before, Machrihanish is no better than Pennard (and even more solid 6) or Brora and as much as I love Pennard, it would struggle to make my top 35 GB&I.  

Ciao

[Jud_T]

You always get some individual results like those discussed above, when you have a new panel voting on a list for the first time.  Then they see the results of their vote, and adjust their votes a bit the next time around on some of the outliers, to conform a bit more to what "experts" expect.

The problem with these lists in a nutshell.  You have the status quo, then new courses jockeying to become part of the status quo.  Pretty impressive initial ranking for Cabot.  We'll see how it shakes out over time.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Deal
TOC
Prestwick
Sunny Old
Sandwich
Rye
Alwoodley
St Enodoc
N Beriwck
Co Down
WHO
ST Georges Hill
The Island
Formby
Cruden Bay
Royal Aberdeen
Dornoch
Portrush
Swinley
Portstewart
Muirfield
Birkdale
Portmarnock
Sunny New
Sligo
Woking
Ganton
Sacred 9
Hoyake
Trump
_________

IMO the above are far superior to Machrihanish and there are more I would take ahead of Machrihanish.  Basically, Machrihanish is incredibly over-rated.  Wonderful front 9, very mixed bag back 9 - its a solid Doak 6 - nowhere near top the lofty rating GD has given it.  As I said before, Machrihanish is no better than Pennard (and even more solid 6) or Brora and as much as I love Pennard, it would struggle to make my top 35 GB&I.  

Ciao

I thought I'd save Mark the trouble, you are at least 1 short of meeting his challenge.  

As I'm feeling generous, I might allow Royal Dublin on a technicality.