NLGA by MacDonald, Travis and Emmet?

[ian]

This is from the latest Travis Society update. I thought it may be a fun item for the serious historians to read.

Another course appearing to have ample confirmation for inclusion in the Travis Directory is the National Golf Links of America.  This course is generally attributed to Charles B. Macdonald.  However, a 1914 American Golfer item, titled, "Facts on Posterity" states that "The National Golf Links of American was laid out, primarily, by three men--Mr. Chas. B. Macdonald, Mr. Walter J. Travis, and Mr. Devereux Emmet.  These three men tramped over ground in its rough state, and how fearfully rough it was, with blackberry vines and huckleberry bushes galore.  The result of their joint labor of love is what may be seen today, in so far as the locations of the several holes is concerned, without any material change from the original plan."  The news item states that, upon the suggestion of Walter J., the name was changed from the National Golf Course of America to the National Golf Links of America.

[Willie_Dow]

Isn't great when great minds get together, not knowing if they will get a dollar value out of their thinking, but they try to formulate something of subsequent value.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Ian,
Here I am, just wet under the ears of being a National addict and here I go trying to recite complete knowledge....

I can only say, Whatever Uncle George says is true; same for Gib; and if still in doubt, Scotland's Gift: Golf, which from memory doesn't mention the name Travis at all.

It doesn't matter though--it's too F-ing fantastic!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ian Andrew,

Who wrote the article ?

[TEPaul]

Ian:

That's very interesting and certainly wouldn't surprise me with a course like NGLA at that early date and looking closely at what Macdonald was and was probably considered at the time of the beginning of NGLA. Was he at that time considered the "father" of American architecture that some consider him to be today? Of course not!

I'd heard somewhere that Emmett and Travis had been a few of those around NGLA as were some others. This sounds to me at that time of 1907 or so a bit like George Crump of Pine Valley in the beginning with the creation of his course around 1912-13. Of course one sometimes forgets that C. B Macdonald, like Crump, Hugh Wilson, George Thomas and the Fownes of Oakmont were all life-long amateurs in the architectural world and weren't well known in the architectural world primarily because none of them had done much as yet!    

So with that in mind I suppose it's logical for some to assume that he must have needed the help and aide of professional architects of his time. That wouldn't explain, of course, his hole concepts and such that he brought from Europe but maybe they helped him figure out where to put them on the land and also with some of the original holes of NGLA. I guess just like Crump 5-6 years after him it was too much for him to figure things out at that time on his own.  

Or maybe he just saw some benefit of having some well known architects around and seeking their ideas and collaboration. Macdonald did write a fairly extensive chapter in his book (unlike Crump) about the inception and creation of NGLA.

Is the Travis Society attempting to claim that Travis didn't get the credit for his contribution to NGLA he was due? It should be pointed out that Travis himself wrote in Golf Illustrated (or the American golfer?) that he had contributed the idea to Crump and Pine Valley that that course would be reversible (the reversible design complete with some hole drawings appeared by Travis in the magazine). As anyone can tell, however, that never happened. Obviously Crump didn't exactly buy that idea.

As to who collaborated with MacDonald on NGLA it seems to me Macdonald covers that pretty well in his book "Scotland's Gift Golf" on page 178. Among others he does mention both Travis and Emmett. But just as with PVGC it seems likely to me that like Crump at PVGC, C.B Macdonald was in complete control of what happened at NGLA from its very beginning until the day he died.

[T_MacWood]

If I'm not mistaken Travis was the editor of the American Golfer. Travis was also an outspoken critic of the NGLA.

[TEPaul]

"Travis was also an outspoken critic of the NGLA."

Tom MacW:

If that was so possibly it has something to do with this;

"As I stated in my agreement to associate with me two qualified golfers in America, making the committee of three to carry out this general scheme, I asked Jim Whigam and Walter Travis as associates. Eventually I dropped Travis and Jim Whigam and myself, with the kindly interest taken by Joseph P. Knapp, James A. Stillman, Devereaux Emmet, Charles Sabin, and others, forged ahead with the construction from surveyor's maps and the thirty or forty drawings which I had made myself abroad of different holes which I thought were worth while."
C.B. Macdonald, "Scotland's Gift Golf"

[ian]

The society is only trying to come to terms with anything it has found written in publications and archives. This group is pretty careful about claims to courses, and looks for a confirmation rather than a few passing references.

The only goal of this society is as accurate a history on Walter as they can. Nothing more.

I only posted this for interest sake, and was not trying to stir the pot. I can e-mail the whole update, which doesn't really shed more light, but would give a better context and the sources.

Everyone above has my home e-mail.

Ian

[TEPaul]

Ian;

As we all know, the truth is out there somewhere--the only problem these days lies in trying to prove it. What was written by whomever, even those involved should never automatically pass for the truth. I'll take a rock solid fact based provable time-line over anything that was written by anyone any day!!

[Mark Bourgeois]

Here's the article in question, presumably written by Travis.

Any ideas on Travis's contributions or when / why he bowed out? When did things go bad between Chas and The Old Man?




By the way, Travis is right about the original name. Here's a member's bill from back in The Olden Days: