[J_ Crisham]

Flossmoor is a good example as a soft par 5 opener and a good but not terribly difficult par 5 finisher. The greens on both holes are challenging but all of Flossmoor's are tough/severe. 18 is a nice reprieve from 15-17.

[David_Moorhead]

I was going to start a new thread about easy 18th holes, but I found this thread and wanted to revive the discussion with regard to "easy" finishing holes in particular.


My father-in-law, a decent 10-12 handicapper, says every time we play that the 18th should be an easier hole so that everyone has a reasonable chance to leave the course feeling good.  His perspective is that if a birdie beats a par on the final hole, both guys walk off happy and ready to play again--which is much better in his mind than a double beating a triple with both guys leaving the course with an unpleasant experience on the final hole.  His focus is clearly on enjoyment for the regular golfer, not drama for Tour pros.  It's not that a course should be easy all the way around as someone suggested in the thread, but isn't there some benefit to a course (and to golf in general) if the final hole is one of the good, half-par holes that we all seem to like mixed into a course?  I agree the land generally dictates what the finishing hole is, but I think an easier finisher for the regular golfer is a good goal.


I hope I am not falling victim to the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality.


David

[Steve Lang]

    Would prefer that #1 or #18 just not be in the # 1-4 handicap holes...


never want to have to give a stroke on the first or 18th in match play unless there truly is a real delta in handicap indexes.. which i judge to be 4 strokes


never want the 18th to be a matter of stoutness, where for mere mortals, the best boring defensive play or best train wreck wins, I want a real opportunity for birdie to be there on the 18th, something to swing the match strategy to offense

[Tim Martin]

Somerset Hills
Taconic
Fishers Island
Shennecossett
Westchester CC West

[jeffwarne]

Just as long as we're clear that any decent 1/2 par par 5 finishing hole is doomed to eventually be dubbed a par 4 by a Green Chairman or scorecard maker, thus ruining the "fun" for those who need a par or birdie to feel good on the ride home

[Rory Connaughton]

I disagree. In a match, a stout 18th is a great way to finish and can be the difference maker.
PV
MGC
LCC

[Mark Saltzman]

I think this thread just shows how nonsensical it is to say how a golf course 'should' flow.

[Keith OHalloran]

Saltzy,
Do you think there are any "should a" in golf architecture?

[Mark Saltzman]

Saltzy,
Do you think there are any "should a" in golf architecture?

I'm probably going to regret not thinking about this more, but... A golf course should be designed to drain well. Aside from that, no.

[archie_struthers]

 




I prefer a hole with a little width as the first , as not everyone gets to the range to warm up properly. I'm pretty dead set against water or OB on the opener also. . Like a strong finishing hole , but variety is the spice of life.


Woodcrest is a neat Flynn course in NJ just east of Philly. I sat in on a strategy meeting there for the new ownership group  a while ago and suggested they flip the nines . As played today Woodcrest starts with a tough , tight tee shot , one of the toughest on the course . The whole front nine is tight and not conducive to swinging away for most players. The 18th hole is a long par five over water where many players make big numbers . It was much better previously where #1'was today's _#10 .


The head professional argued that players could watch the play on 18 from the clubhouse and it was really neat . My query: if it was the ninth hole you could still watch play. So , it starts tough , ends tough . Could be much improved by flipping the nines back to how they played them in the old days .


This being said I'm a big Flynn fan and Woodcrest is near and dear to my heart . It's a wonderful classic and worth visiting . Lots of good things going on !

[Tom_Doak]

I may have missed it but no one mentions St Andrews, Prestwick, North Berwick or Elie, all of which end with a very short, almost drivable par 4.  These served the purpose of quickly ending a match if they got that far, but they weren't the climax of the round since a majority of matches are done before the 18th. 

All of them are great fun today if you need a three to break 80 or 90.  Making birdie when you need one is not THAT easy ; just ask Jordan Spieth or Jason Day!

[Bob Montle]

This is an interesting question which makes me think.
So here is another question: if you think of your favorite closing holes, what about them do you like, and are they easy or difficult?
The par 5 18th at River Oaks in Statesville NC has a creek crossing the fairway limiting the driving zone, then running down the left edge of the fairway and then joined by another creek running in front of the green. The green is thus guarded by water in front and on the left and by a steep overgrown hill immediately behind the green.

If you lay up with a 3 wood on your drive, then lay up again with an iron for your second, you will have an easy short wedge to the green. This can and should be an easy finish.

But a drive just short of the first creek leaves a mere 170 yd carry over the second creek to reach the green.  So unless their drive was right and trees block the green, most golfers go for it.   Woody Hayes used to say there were three things that could happen if you tried to pass the football and two of them were bad.  Well, there are five things that can happen if you go for it and only one of them is good.

My point is that here is a short par 5 with wide fairways that should be easy but suckers golfers into high scores and usually has them saying they wish they could go back and play if over.  Differently. 

That defines my idea of a good finishing hole!

[archie_struthers]

 


I'm with Mark Saltzman on this one , no rules . Each course has its own ebb and flow .


However if pressed don't want to see lots of penalty shots on the finale .

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