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Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« on: January 05, 2014, 06:01:20 AM »
Another year has come and gone, what did we glean along the way?

The luster of studying golf course architecture remains as brilliant as ever. Print media doesn’t give it the respect it warrants but eyeballs continue the trend of turning elsewhere for information. Using this internet site as a barometer, all the metrics were up: page views, content, participants in the Discussion Group, donations, emails received, visitors (including the fabulous Dixie Cup gathering), Christmas cards, and on and on. We even received our first poem! The subject matter continues to prove endlessly fascinating. From Old Tom Morris to Amy Alcott, a lot of ground was covered in the Feature Interviews this year. Same for the Course Profiles, which included one of MacKenzie’s early successes outside of Manchester to Emmet’s treasure on Long Island to modern Erin Hills which can stretch to more than 8,000 yards to historic Prestwick and The Country Club.  As always, Joe Andriole’s heavy editing and Chris Buie’s magical touch greatly enhanced these photo essays.

The quest for knowledge keeps GolfClubAtlas.com fresh. One dot I finally connected came courtesy of Trey Greenwood’s In My Opinion piece on Coronado’s municipal course and its architect Jack Daray. We have all seen numerous times the famous 1947 photo of the founding architects of the ASGCA in Pinehurst and read its caption that Jack Daray was one of three architects unable to attend. Finally, from the unexpected topic of the municipal course on Coronado Island, I learned about the least known founder of the ASGCA. Additionally, the current narrative about Sunningdale teems with fresh information about Park, Colt, Simpson and the lot. They all represent points on a canvas and together, we continue to try and assemble an overall picture of the evolution of golf course architecture.  
 
In all aspects of life two people can see the same thing and have wildly different thoughts. I just experienced such an incident with my girlfriend who brought home a clay dish that was about 14 inches long, a few inches tall and a few inches wide. I immediately thought, ‘Hallelujah, a gravy boat!’ and visions of thick, hot gravy splashed on everything from bread to popcorn danced merrily in my head. Her scoff told me otherwise, ‘No, Goofy, it’s for serving vegetables.’ ‘VEGETABLES,’ I shrieked in horror, ‘who eats them anymore? Weren’t they just a passing fad, rendered superfluous with the advent of pizza?’ Two reasonable people (or at least a patient, highly learned man and a dictatorial, hot headed female) had profoundly different perceptions of the same object. So it goes with golf courses. The pros and cons, thrusts and parries, passion and despair exhibited on these pages make for great theater especially when it comes to polarizing architecture. Take the Alotian Club, opulently and splendidly set, it features some of the nation’s firmest greens where a 20 foot putt can break virtually the same distance. It is a lot of fun to play but if you believe that walking is integral to the game, you will take exception to its lofty Golf Digest rating.  The Trump Course in Scotland generated more posts than any new course in recent years. Some people, including myself, are captivated by its magnificent dunesland environment and array of interesting shots while others are more stingy with compliments. All comments should be somewhat tempered on this fledging links as we wait for the fescue to become dominant and for true links conditions to emerge. Nobody is right, nobody is wrong as it comes down to matters of taste and differences of opinion. And so, the GolfClubAtlas.com Discussion Group rages on -with no end in sight!  
 
At a GOLFWEEK gathering this November at the Pinehurst Resort, the theme of information was explored. I contended, and there were few dissenters, that more information than ever is available today to assist owners, developers, Green Keepers, clubs and resorts about how to present their golf. Unlike the 1970s when I latched onto the World Atlas of Golf for dear life, there is a cornucopia of useful material explaining/opining what constitutes good golf course architecture. Instead of just hoping to find some relevant material, the challenge today is wading through the mountains of available information, analyzing it and distilling the parts relevant for your course.



Though Jack Morrissett above is excited above about the progress at Cabot Cliffs, restoration - as opposed to new course construction - remains in the fore and will be for years to come. Unchecked vegetation, ill-advised course alterations and a misunderstanding of classic design tenets have devitalized so many courses. Golf loses much of its mass appeal when so many of her courses are so poorly presented/conceived. There are many experts to help guide a club in its efforts but not every course/club can afford a Keith Foster or Gil Hanse. That’s okay because 90% plus of courses lack sufficient design merit to warrant their attention anyway!

Fortunately, it is now far easier for clubs to move ahead on their own initiative and free access sites like this can assist them by documenting success stories. If you are serious about making improvements at your club, have a read of Dunlop White’s writings under In My Opinion or Al Jamieson’s January 2012 Feature Interview on the turnaround at the California Golf Club of San Francisco or the course profiles on Sleepy Hollow and Orchard Lake. The prescription is well established: Prune trees and vegetation, restore width, return bunkers to their original loci, and reclaim lost putting surfaces. Let’s face it: Improving the playing experience at your course doesn’t require the intelligence of beating Kasparov at chess.
 
I am in the midst of reading Ed Viesturs’s new book about his many Everest expeditions. One of the best segments recalls the Poles who drove to Nepal from Poland and in 1980 became the first to summit Everest in the winter. Without state of the art equipment (more accurately, it bordered on the pathetic) they made it to the top through sheer focus and determination. No Sherpas required. It is one of mountaineering’s all-time great accomplishments. Can’t clubs push ahead like those gallant Poles? Do clubs have to rely so heavily on a team of others to fix their own mess when so much quality information is now available?

Clubs, mired in their own inane politics, have to stop being their own worst enemy as that drives the cost of the game up. A gaggle of consultants are hardly required when your Golden Age course has 3,000 too many trees. Proper work done in-house saves the club money which is vital to re-aligning the cost of the game with the fun of the game. The value of a great Green Keeper has never been higher than today – they are worth their weight in gold to any club. For inspiration on what can be accomplished, look to South Uist and Askernish where a crew of two is all it takes to present an endlessly fascinating course to play with greens rarely quicker than a 7 on the stimp. Or look at what Coore & Crenshaw did by cutting the number of irrigation heads by 60% at Pinehurst No.2. Similarly, per Chris Johnston’s April Feature Interview, Don Mahaffey used less than half the heads on the second Dismal course as were employed on the first one. GREAT GOLF NEED NOT BE EXPENSIVE GOLF, no matter what you are being told.

The corporatized version of golf that beams out of your television is dishearteningly bland. Who is going to be attracted to an expensive sport that takes hours and hours to play? Yuck. Since Thanksgiving, I have followed Chris Buie’s lead and started playing with ~eight clubs. Keep thing simple. Inventing shots is fun. Old Tom Morris’s quote in his December Feature Interview ‘… iron clubs are now so varied that players sometimes get confused amongst them’ is my favorite line of the year. As an aside, Chris and I kept a running tally of approach shots into the 18th green at Southern Pines this year. An uphill hole of 329 yards from the white tees, 19 out of 174 players hit the green in regulation while we were watching from the porch at lunches throughout 2013. We didn’t keep a record but we think that perhaps no more than half could have even reached the green with their two best shots. A lot of the players were tourists so it makes you wonder: who the heck have we been building courses for?!  :-\ Doak lamented at that November Pinehurst gathering that no one has asked him to build a 6,000 yard course. How true given golf’s aging population base.


Be it the Andrioles at Askernish (pictured above), the Bradleys, or whoever, memories of father and son golf far out last the banality of the radiantly uninteresting PGA Tour.

The beauty of game is its huge spectrum. When asked if I had a good golf year, I reflexively think back to range of courses seen. From Askernish to supremely presented places like Southern Hills and Castle Stuart, 2013 was a 10 out of 10 year for variety. Except for me missing five putts under five feet at Southern Hills and thus going down in flames  :'( to Bitter Cowan-Dewar, mission accomplished! It was all topped off by watching my 76 year old Dad tack around Cabot Links from its silver tees of 6,020 yards. Seeing Dad’s shots bound a good distance along Cabot’s fescue fairways was like rolling the clock back to our UK trips that started thirty years ago. Plus, I finally caught a break there and we had some wind. Not having played golf like that in many years, Dad was like a kid in a candy store. The spirit of the game was truly alive that late October day for the Morrissetts.

GolfClubAtlas.com remains focused on content over page views. We aspire to be like ‘Foyle’s War’ and its tight, nuanced dialogue rather than an inane, glitzy concoction like ‘The Wolf on Wall Street.’ Posts of a bumptious nature only add a layer of film that must be scraped away to get to the good stuff. We take a rather dim view of such assertive posts and posters, especially when it stifles healthy debate. You need to own what you say and therefore you must post under your name or something very close (JSmith works for John Smith). In a similar vein, the Queen spoke about the merits of quiet reflection in her Christmas message eleven days ago. While she didn’t specifically mention this Discussion Group  ;), her sagacious advice applies: take a few moments before pushing the ‘post’ button. Let’s all resolve to set the highest standard of ‘netiquette.’ It matters immensely to the quality of this Discussion Group how you express your opinions. As always, a few posters will likely lose a seat at the table this year based on boorish conduct. Though regrettable, Ben and I will always move to do what is right for the community as a whole.  Remember: people with several thousand plus posts to their name are held to the highest standard possible because their volume of posts makes a difference in how this Discussion Group is perceived. Just because you have time to post doesn’t necessarily mean that you should post. We are only after content that adds value. To that end, about ~20 pages of off-topic, non-architecture posts will soon be deleted, an annual tradition that I suppose comes with the territory. Connect NC will be updating our database to version SMF 1.1.19 to match our forum's files sometime this week. I don't know what that means either  :-[ other than the Discussion Group will likely be down for 2 or 3 hours at some point.

We would be wasting time here if no one read what we wrote. Happily, that is not the case. In fact, some people deleted their accounts because too many eyeballs follow this ever-expanding web site. Ben’s and my strong desire is to keep the web site pure, free of clutter, flashing banners and commercials. GolfClubAtlas.com is about good design, so the web site itself needs to physically embrace that ideal. Less is more. As an example of what we don’t want, I attempted to read Fox Sports summary of the NFL games each Monday morning. However, the ads and commercial videos meant that the pages were excruciatingly slow to load and cumbersome to navigate. It was painful to the point that I quit visiting their web site or any of their links. Thanks to all the donors listed in the Contribution Section of GolfClubAtlas.com we remain mercifully free of such impositions. Many supporters are friends and just as many are people that we have never met. Both forms of donors are extremely flattering.  WE THANK ALL and hope to earn your support year after year for what we do.

As always, please email me at rmorrissett@cabotlinks.com with any suggestions on how to improve this site. Someone recently suggested capping any discussion at 5 pages because anything longer invariably veers off course and turns into one personality versus another. To date, we have resisted such artificial barriers but the point has some merit as fresh information rarely comes to light on page 9. What do you think?
 
GCA’er Jerry Kluger moved near Peter Millar’s Cary, NC facility and has - very kindly - decided to wreck his retirement. He developed the idea to market GolfClubAtlas.com golf shirts in order to promote this web site. Since his Sun Mountain golf bags have been a big hit over the years, Ben and I green-lighted the shirts which feature one of golf’s most beloved logos  :) on the chest. I tested a few in the fall and Peter Millar’s stretch-y material is ideal. Jerry will post details of this shirt offering in a week or so. We are going to keep it simple and, for now, offer only a few solids and a few striped designs. Each shirt costs $65 plus tax and shipping. Heroically, Jerry is going to manage this project that will require painfully accurate tax records. Talk about not fun - good luck Jerry in helping to further spread the GolfClubAtlas.com name!
 

 
We conclude with an apology. In about five months, everyone is going to assume that I am a Philadelphian because so many posts will be about my home area!  ;D Of course, I refer to the two US Opens coming to Pinehurst No. 2. As the fourth generation of my family to be based in Moore County North Carolina, I am proud to see Pinehurst return to the epicenter of golf. No. 2’s raw (real raw, not the fake raw that you see in magazine articles of ‘expensively natural’ courses) look and lack of rough may well be a cornerstone moment in the direction of golf course architecture/maintenance. Stay tuned and please indulge this web site for all the Pinehurst material this spring/summer.
 
The fact that we all have electricity, shelter, food, free time, internet, carbon laptop, a leather MacKenzie walker with a Galvin Green rain jacket tucked in the pouch  8) , and the ability to travel and play golf indicates that we are among the luckiest 1% or so of people in the world. To top it off,  our cumulative passion for the study of golf course architecture serves as a fulcrum to gain friendships around the world. What AMAZING times we live! Let’s make the most of our opportunities in 2014, always moving forward with gratitude and humility at the fortunes that golf continually rains down upon us.

Best,

Ran & Ben
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 06:15:25 AM by Ran Morrissett »

Brett_Morrissy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2014, 06:37:07 AM »
Thanks Ran & Ben,
In a lean year of golf for me, quality over quantity has been the mantra, and the same has applied to my use and participation of golf club atlas, certainly not asserting that any of my posts have a high level of quality to them, but that I really only allowed time for scanning what I thought were the quality threads or articles, or the ones that ticked the interest box for me. Sports other than golf seems to be quite numerous, although these past few months the soap dodgers and Aussies have managed to keep some of us entertained on cricket, which I know is not the intended charter for the site, but as long as it is OT ( and an indication of its content in the title) they are easy to skip if necessary.

The growth of the Majors etc, also seems to be an added bonus, and all the more unfortunate we have too far to travel to attend regularly - green with envy.

I have gleaned, that quality over quantity is a good thing! That includes wine as well as golf! ;D

Thanks again
Brett
@theflatsticker

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2014, 09:55:36 AM »
Ran, I hope you do NOT cap the threads at five pages.  An example of why just came up recently: the Original Biarritz thread.  A whole lot of really good info, analysis, and deeper insights came out of the thread after the fifth page, about the various iterations of the Biarritz course, as well as some of the specific holes.  


Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2014, 10:09:43 AM »
Ran, I hope you do NOT cap the threads at five pages.  An example of why just came up recently: the Original Biarritz thread.  A whole lot of really good info, analysis, and deeper insights came out of the thread after the fifth page, about the various iterations of the Biarritz course, as well as some of the specific holes.  



Was thinking about the same thread. Of course, exceptions prove the rule. That both of us thought first of that thread suggests there aren't too many like it.
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

BCowan

Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2014, 12:04:02 PM »
I am in the midst of reading Ed Viesturs’s new book about his many Everest expeditions. One of the best segments recalls the Poles who drove to Nepal from Poland and in 1980 became the first to summit Everest in the winter. Without state of the art equipment (more accurately, it bordered on the pathetic) they made it to the top through sheer focus and determination. No Sherpas required. It is one of mountaineering’s all-time great accomplishments. Can’t clubs push ahead like those gallant Poles? Do clubs have to rely so heavily on a team of others to fix their own mess when so much quality information is now available?

Clubs, mired in their own inane politics, have to stop being their own worst enemy as that drives the cost of the game up. A gaggle of consultants are hardly required when your Golden Age course has 3,000 too many trees. Proper work done in-house saves the club money which is vital to re-aligning the cost of the game with the fun of the game. The value of a great Green Keeper has never been higher than today – they are worth their weight in gold to any club. For inspiration on what can be accomplished, look to South Uist and Askernish where a crew of two is all it takes to present an endlessly fascinating course to play with greens rarely quicker than a 7 on the stimp. Or look at what Coore & Crenshaw did by cutting the number of irrigation heads by 60% at Pinehurst No.2. Similarly, per Chris Johnston’s April Feature Interview, Don Mahaffey used less than half the heads on the second Dismal course as were employed on the first one. GREAT GOLF NEED NOT BE EXPENSIVE GOLF, no matter what you are being told.


   That was beautifully written.  What has happened to Member volunteer groups?  I volunteered at my club to help clear out brush and trees in the winter time.  He said they would have to pay me, in fear of a lawsuit.  My Grandpa put in drainage on a section of the course i grew up on, what happened to people working together and getting it right, instead now clubs put it on a credit card or asses members!  :)

Peter Pallotta

Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2014, 12:24:37 PM »
Ran - fine post, thanks. You're a good writer to begin with, but then you step up to entirely different level because of your love for the subject and depth of knowledge. It's a genuine pleasure to read; please keep writing.

Btw,  that 14 inch clay dish can only be for gravy, and vegetables were indeed a passing fad -- no matter what the dictatorial and hot-headed female in your life would otherwise suggest and/or foist upon you. But as a fellow patient and highly learned man, I'd suggest that the proof of our wisdom is that we won't argue the point!  :)

Best to you and Ben and your loved ones

Peter

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2014, 02:24:55 PM »
The Trump Course in Scotland generated more posts than any new course in recent years. Some people, including myself, are captivated by its magnificent dunesland environment and array of interesting shots while others are more stingy with compliments. All comments should be somewhat tempered on this fledging links as we wait for the fescue to become dominant and for true links conditions to emerge.

Well I suppose I must be one of those making stingy comments. Fair enough, each to their own. I'd be very interesting though to learn all about the array of interesting shots you get to play off the shag pile carpet of a fairway to the monotinously designed greens with the dry moat surrounds  ;)

Niall

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2014, 05:34:10 PM »
I like the capping idea, but to set it at a fixed, arbitrary number will destroy some promising discussions and still allow other unsavoury threads to run on for too long.

How about introducing a feedback loop? Limit everyone to one posting per day. Then introduce a "like" button and for every 10 likes you get an addtional posting. Those additional postings go into a pool, you can use them anytime. Once you make your second posting on a day, it is drawn from that pool. If the pool is empty, it's one per day.

Alternatively we could all be considerate and wise :)

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2014, 06:06:23 PM »
I like the capping idea, but to set it at a fixed, arbitrary number will destroy some promising discussions and still allow other unsavoury threads to run on for too long.

How about introducing a feedback loop? Limit everyone to one posting per day. Then introduce a "like" button and for every 10 likes you get an addtional posting. Those additional postings go into a pool, you can use them anytime. Once you make your second posting on a day, it is drawn from that pool. If the pool is empty, it's one per day.

Alternatively we could all be considerate and wise :)

Ulrich

Or every time a certian poster acts purely with the intention to provoke without offering any insight. If he reaches 10 negative reports, he is banned from the site forever. As, ultimately, it stifles interesting debate and causes irritation / unrest. I think we all know who we are talking about here.

+1
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2014, 09:11:24 PM »
How about introducing a feedback loop? Limit everyone to one posting per day. Then introduce a "like" button and for every 10 likes you get an addtional posting. Those additional postings go into a pool, you can use them anytime. Once you make your second posting on a day, it is drawn from that pool. If the pool is empty, it's one per day.

Alternatively we could all be considerate and wise :)

Ulrich

Or every time a certian poster acts purely with the intention to provoke without offering any insight. If he reaches 10 negative reports, he is banned from the site forever. As, ultimately, it stifles interesting debate and causes irritation / unrest. I think we all know who we are talking about here.

Considerate and wise is the way to go.

Failing that, PM the people you think are offensive/out of line. I think we all know we're talking about me here. The PM is the best way to man up and directly confront the guy, all the while maintaining the privacy of a one-on-one, out of the public (GCA) eye.

I would hate to have us sitting in judgement of each other. After a long day of mescaline and guacamole abuse, I could be as dangerous as a Wal-Mart drone.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2014, 12:06:09 AM »
I agree with Ron.  The ideas Ulrich et. al. are suggesting will greatly limit the frank exchange of ideas and critiques.  That freedom from structure helps give the DG its strength.  

As for limiting to five pages or under: those are the most popular threads.  We want to put a cap on the topics the group finds most interesting?  Right now, e.g., the threads that are six pages or longer are Doak's Rate my courses, golf & college football, and reactions/photos/memories about the 2011 Boomerang event.  Do we really want to stop all discussion of these at page 5?  




Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2014, 12:39:29 AM »
Geez, I wish I could write as well as you.  :'(

Thanks for all you do.

Garland
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2014, 06:18:07 AM »
Garland, honestly, you don't need to keep praising m...

Oh, wait, you were referencing Ran, not Ron...my, I'm abashed.

Agreed...the man can unite words.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

John McCarthy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2014, 11:51:47 AM »
I also do not think the like/dislike function would work well.  I have been a member of several discussion groups over the years.  Some of the great strengths of this one is the use of real names and lack of profanity.  It creates boundaries.  The like/dislike buttons in other boards leads to cliques that try to get certain posters who they disagree with kicked off the board with dislikes and promote certain points of view with the likes.  While seeking ideological purity is an unfortunate component of human interpersonal dynamics it diminishes frank exchange of views and leads to self-censorship.  
The only way of really finding out a man's true character is to play golf with him. In no other walk of life does the cloven hoof so quickly display itself.
 PG Wodehouse

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2014, 01:26:37 PM »
Thank you Ran and Ben for everything that you do for this site. The golf architecture world is much better for it!
H.P.S.

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2014, 09:59:09 PM »
Thank you Ben and Ran.

My New Years resolution is to write an In My Opinion piece for consideration.
"Appreciate the constructive; ignore the destructive." -- John Douglas

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2014, 02:17:40 AM »
Thank you Ben and Ran, nice pics and well thought state of the website.

As to site enhancement, I would like to se am improved search function, but not sure what options exist or are possible.

The big question for Pinehurst seems to be whether or not the women should play first or not.

Should be a great time for golf architecture nonetheless.

Have fun and thank you again.
It's all about the golf!

Connor Dougherty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2014, 02:48:43 AM »
Ran and Ben,

Thank you for everything you do and for that well written piece! If only I had those kind of writing skills!  ;D

For site enhancement, a few people have suggested the "like function," which I do like the idea in concept but do have concerns. reddit.com highlights both the benefits and the pitfalls of a system like that. Capping posts per person is also a good idea, but surely there are circumstances where a person has more than 1 good post per day (as unlikely as that may be  ;D) and that would take away from those posts. There have been many cases where Tom Doak has made several posts, which often answer interesting questions and give us a lot of new insight into GCA.

I think capping threads at a page number is a bad idea. I like that there's one thread concerning college football, especially considering that for other sporting events, there have been several threads, meaning they end up taking more space up and dilute the board with several OT threads rather than one. I also think it would exasperate the issue of having several threads on the same subjects.

Colin Macqueen provided the Directory for Golf Club Atlas a few weeks ago https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43921089/GCA%20Bookmarks%202013.html, but I would like to see a way to incorporate that into the site. I find there are a lot of duplicate threads (I have posted plenty duplicate threads of my own) because the original threads are buried in the archives. Perhaps when submitting a new thread it gets put into a category, which will increase the likelihood of the search function finding the thread you are looking for and will make it easier to see if the topic has already been discussed. A front page would still look like the discussion group as it exists right now. It would give the website a little bit more organization.

I look forward to getting that Peter Millar shirt! I'm a huge fan of that stretchy material and love the classy, simplistic look they offer.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 04:59:17 PM by Connor Dougherty »
"The website is just one great post away from changing the world of golf architecture.  Make it." --Bart Bradley

BigEdSC

Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2014, 10:13:15 AM »
Ran & Ben
A great post to start the year off on.  Even though I've been part of this group for a while, work and golf has kept me from reading and responding.  Best of luck in the new year with golf and the website.  And thank you for your passion for a part of golf that most golfers have a hard time understanding and comprehending.

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2014, 10:25:31 AM »
Quote
There have been many cases where Tom Doak has made several posts, which often answer interesting questions and give us a lot of new insight into GCA.

I assume that Tom would with each posting receive so many "likes" that his posting allowance would grow faster than he could exhaust it. And that's as it should be.

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2014, 11:39:34 AM »
Thank you Ben and Ran.

My New Years resolution is to write an In My Opinion piece for consideration.

Well said that man. I too have the same idea however I suspect my Opinion piece, if it ever gets written never mind published, would be a good bit less accomplished.

Niall

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2014, 11:43:39 AM »
Quote
There have been many cases where Tom Doak has made several posts, which often answer interesting questions and give us a lot of new insight into GCA.

I assume that Tom would with each posting receive so many "likes" that his posting allowance would grow faster than he could exhaust it. And that's as it should be.

Ulrich

Ulrich

It seems to me that what you are basically suggesting is a popularity contest that works against the dissenting voice. Now I know that there may be certain posters that can get in the way of a good discussion however they can also sometimes come up with something that makes you question your views. Thats not to say that anyone who is a continue bore can't be turfed off, that would be an editorial decision by Ran presumably, but at least you wouldn't have a rationing of ideas.

Niall

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2014, 12:19:09 PM »
Niall,

group interaction is always based on popularity. You can also call it democracy or meritocracy, but in any case you don't want a few elite contributors dictating their views to the unwashed masses. Of course this means that the occasional dissenting voice will be silenced.

The question I am asking myself: how many discussions are hurt by a sensible, but singular voice that is stifled vs. those discussions that are hurt by a singular and unreasonable voice that isn't.

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2014, 09:04:47 AM »
Ulrich

To use one example, Mr Mucci and Mr Moriarty. I'd suggest that neither are overly popular with each other most of the time however they do seem to exchange views on a fairly regular basis. Sometimes those views are no more than personal criticism of each other but at other times they do generate a very interesting discussion that is worth contributing to or just listening into. I'm not too sure whether your mode of doing things would allow that or whether one or both of these gentlemen would be excluded from the site. I would certainly hope it would be the former as each in their own way have wothwhile things to say, even if you don't always agree with them.

Niall

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GolfClubAtlas.com version 2013/4 from Ben & Ran
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2014, 11:39:39 AM »
Quote
There have been many cases where Tom Doak has made several posts, which often answer interesting questions and give us a lot of new insight into GCA.

I assume that Tom would with each posting receive so many "likes" that his posting allowance would grow faster than he could exhaust it. And that's as it should be.

Ulrich

Ulrich

It seems to me that what you are basically suggesting is a popularity contest that works against the dissenting voice. Now I know that there may be certain posters that can get in the way of a good discussion however they can also sometimes come up with something that makes you question your views. Thats not to say that anyone who is a continue bore can't be turfed off, that would be an editorial decision by Ran presumably, but at least you wouldn't have a rationing of ideas.

Niall

Most people have heard of urban legends. The things everyone believes, but aren't true. It seems to me that functions like like buttons just serve to extend urban legends, by having people post misinformation and having the majority like it. Let people read what a person has to say without prejudicing them by a misleading popularity contest.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne