US Course that is the F&F you have played (Non Fescue courses)

[Michael Underwood]

The Rawls Course at Texas Tech University is very firm and fast with Bermuda fairways and bent greens.  By far one of the best golf courses in the State of Texas.  A real treat if you are ever in Lubbock.

Wine Valley Golf Club in Walla Walla, WA was also very firm and fast and does not disqualify itself from the original question by being fescue.

[Mark Smolens]

I've only been on one trip to Bandon, but the firmest and fastest course that I've played this side of the Atlantic was Outlaw at Desert Mountain.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I've only been on one trip to Bandon, but the firmest and fastest course that I've played this side of the Atlantic was Outlaw at Desert Mountain.


Mark,

I really enjoyed the "Outlaw" course at Desert Mountain, it was clearly my favorite.

Sadly, F&F will change as they're regrassing the course to make it like the others as many didn't like the brownish color, versus lush green.

What a shame, but this is what weekly PGA Tour telecasts produce at the club level.

[Jason Topp]

My club (Windsong Farm) is firm and fast when the weather allows such conditions.  A decent wind can change the distance you hit your tee shot by 100 yards.    The greens pretty much require an aerial approach but are large enough that an approach can be interesting with a half wedge or a three wood.

[Matthew Sander]

I've only been on one trip to Bandon, but the firmest and fastest course that I've played this side of the Atlantic was Outlaw at Desert Mountain.


Mark,

I really enjoyed the "Outlaw" course at Desert Mountain, it was clearly my favorite.

Sadly, F&F will change as they're regrassing the course to make it like the others as many didn't like the brownish color, versus lush green.

What a shame, but this is what weekly PGA Tour telecastse produce at the club level.

Pat,

Say it ain't so. A very unfortunate decision (in my opinion) as the f&f conditions there really melded well with the architecture...at least they did during my visit. In many instances the firm turf led right into bunkers making them play much larger than their actual size. When you couple the conditions with the tight/cozy routing you had a course with many of the characteristics that are lauded on these pages.

[JR Potts]

In my opinion there are very few golfers that understand what firm and fast really means.. and to that point Tom Doak just reinforced my theory.  Valhalla would be a terrible example of firm and fast.  I have not visited Bandon, but would suspect it truly plays F&F.  As far as the midwest goes, I thought I knew what F&F was until I played Old Elm… That sets the bar at a whole new level, I have never played a course maintained as firm as OE… EVER!!!

Old Elm in Highland Park?  I played it twice last year and it was in great condition, but I didn't think it was more firm or faster than most other highly conditioned courses in Chicago.

[Mark Smolens]

I've only been on one trip to Bandon, but the firmest and fastest course that I've played this side of the Atlantic was Outlaw at Desert Mountain.


Mark,

I really enjoyed the "Outlaw" course at Desert Mountain, it was clearly my favorite.

Sadly, F&F will change as they're regrassing the course to make it like the others as many didn't like the brownish color, versus lush green.

What a shame, but this is what weekly PGA Tour telecasts produce at the club level.

Wow, that's horrible news. The best thing about Outlaw when I visited was that it was the easiest of the DM courses to get on -- the bulk of the members apparently hated it. I'm supposed to visit the Valley with my buddy who coaches the Brown golf team this spring  and he's staying with the parents of one of his former players at DM. When are they going to do the work? Maybe they'll wait until April??