News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
St. George's Golf & Country Club, NY profile is posted...
« on: December 12, 2013, 11:03:57 AM »
... under Courses by Country and Architecture Timeline.

There are many reasons to be excited about the updated Confidential Guide when it rolls out next year. As a magnet for conversation, it will help spark many a healthy debate on the merits of this course or that. In particular, I personally will be most interested to see which, if any, courses Tom Doak changes his grade by 2 or more (e.g. a 4 goes to a 6 or an 8 is downgraded to a 6). The reason will most likely be that the club has/hasn’t been a great custodian since his last visit. On a few occasions, it might be pilot error (Royal Aberdeen  8)) but by and large, the updated Confidential Guide will highlight some of the outstanding restoration work that has occurred in the past 20 years.
 
One example of a two-bagger might be St. George’s Golf and Country Club on the north shore of Long Island. I was fortunate to stroll around the property twice this year. Tom’s “5” from 1995, though harsh considering this is Emmet’s undeniable masterpiece, was warranted from what I could tell from the before photos in the clubhouse. No longer, at least to me! Here is my new screen saver:
 

Long views mesmerize – hard to pull your eyes away, yes?
 
As a sucker for golf on a wide open plain and always keen to see something new and different, Emmet’s work proved to be right up my alley. The story of its restoration is the usual Rubik’s cube of having the right architect, board, and Green Keeper tumble into place. After six seasons, Green Keeper Adam Jessie has the place nearly pitch perfect. Except for NGLA, some stuff at Bandon and maybe Oakmont, I have never seen an American course with more bunkers that gather balls from far away. Emmet’s bunker placement  – and there are 117 around the property – coupled with Adam’s firm playing surfaces and short grass that leads into them help make St. George’s play like a UK course.

It’s the exact opposite of that dreaded form of American golf whereby you hit the ball exactly to Point A and then exactly to point B and so on and so on until you fall asleep.  :P Here, the golf is much more lively and the proceedings really heat up after the ball hits the ground. Do your approach shots stay on the putting surface at 16 and 17 or do they reverse gear down the false fronts and leave you with recovery shots that have you peering skyward in despair? Where do the tee balls finish across the diverse landscapes of 12, 13 and 14? How about your blind approach to 10 where you’ll have to wait ‘til you crest the hill to learn your fate.  All wonderful facets of play on a true classic course!
 
Models stroll the streets of Manhattan without eliciting much attention because the competition is so fierce. It’s the same for golf courses on Long Island. As it plays under 6,300 yards, some people (I initially typed ‘idiots’) pass on St. George’s and seek a more ‘manly’ test like Bethpage Black. Spare me! Last time I played the Black, the bunkers were often separated from the fairway with ten to twenty yards of rough. That’s both tragic and boring.

One of my favorite threads this year was initiated by Mark Rowlinson who challenged everyone to come up with their favorite ‘short’ courses. While some people became fixated on the definition of short, at 6,232 yards, none of us categorize St. George’s as long. Still, this par 70 packs a punch. It’s perfect length and tight routing allow golfers to whisk around in 3 hours of less.
 
Kyle Henderson and Joe Bausch sang its praises previously on this Discussion Group and Kyle’s photos captured the magic of the place. Those gentlemen are always spot on and this is another example. Hope you enjoy the final GolfClubAtlas.com course profile for 2013.

Best,
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 05:16:52 PM by Ran Morrissett »

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St. George's Golf & Country Club, NY profile is posted...
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2013, 11:32:38 AM »
Very nice review.
One of the best courses  anywhere.
Gets minimal exposure due to it not being near anything on the north shore of the middle/eastern Long Island.
Feels like a cross between Southampton and Eastward Ho (minus the ocean)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St. George's Golf & Country Club, NY profile is posted...
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2013, 11:52:24 AM »
Love the review Ran.  Love the course.

From two fall visits (2010 and 11) I have recompiled my St. George's photo album and have placed it here:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/StGeorges/

Here is a clickable sample, taken from the back of the 17th green:



@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St. George's Golf & Country Club, NY profile is posted...
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2013, 02:02:38 PM »
Very nice profile.

What kind of equipement would they have used to construct the greens complexes and the hard-edged bunkers? Horses and drag-pans and lots manual finishing? Early steam shovels and the like? Just curious to know.

ATB

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St. George's Golf & Country Club, NY profile is posted...
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2013, 02:30:33 PM »
This is one review I have been waiting to see from Ran. St. George's was one of the most pleasant surprises of my time in New York. A fabulous course that one could be satisfied playing for life. Great report, Ran!
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St. George's Golf & Country Club, NY profile is posted...
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2013, 03:37:18 PM »
Another successful restoration from Gil Hanse.  I'm unclear if he did any work other than the master plan.  Kudos for the staff to do it in house.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St. George's Golf & Country Club, NY profile is posted...
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2013, 06:34:30 PM »
Cheers Ran.  This profile is a pleasant surprise.  I am not sure who's tour I saw (likely Kyle's or Joe's), but I waas immediately smitten.  I also recall being quite surprised that I was only just hearing about this course.  Its time to sack the Right Coast Crew for complacency  :D.  The features I really like are the muscular strip/trench bunkers - pure beauty they are.

Ciao
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 02:03:06 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St. George's Golf & Country Club, NY profile is posted...
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2013, 07:39:36 PM »
Great profile!  St. Georges is surely one of the most under rated courses I have ever played.  Right at the top of the "fun" category.

MM
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St. George's Golf & Country Club, NY profile is posted...
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2013, 09:21:02 PM »
  I also recall being quite surprised that I was only just hearing about this course.  Its time to sack the Right Coast Crew for complacency  :D.  .

Ciao
sadly our winters aren't playable for "tours"
you'd like it
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St. George's Golf & Country Club, NY profile is posted...
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2013, 02:04:49 AM »
  I also recall being quite surprised that I was only just hearing about this course.  Its time to sack the Right Coast Crew for complacency  :D.  .

Ciao
sadly our winters aren't playable for "tours"
you'd like it

Jeff

You'd be like a kid in a candy shop living in England 12 months a year!

I would like to play St Georges someday - yep, dream on.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Patrick_Mucci

Re: St. George's Golf & Country Club, NY profile is posted...
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2013, 05:37:53 AM »
If you like "quirk", you'll love St George's, it's interesting and fun to play.

Another course where you can play it day in and day out and never tire of it.

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St. George's Golf & Country Club, NY profile is posted...
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2013, 08:45:11 AM »
Ran,

First up, I loved the review.

This was timely for me because I find myself working at Huntington Country Club (Emmet) and our goals are very similar to what Adam and St. George's has achieved. I've recently seen other courses by Emmet that don't do the same justice to his architecture. Kudos to them for getting the presentation is critical to the design.

"I have never seen an American course with more bunkers that gather balls from far away."

Loved this phrase and plan to steal it ....  :)

I've gone to see a few courses of his recently and this was a great description of what I found so different and absolutely engaging about his fairway bunkering. It's easy to underestimate some of the bunker positions until you watch the ball on the ground start to travel in directions and distances that you did not expect.

"Appreciate the constructive; ignore the destructive." -- John Douglas

Keith OHalloran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St. George's Golf & Country Club, NY profile is posted...
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2013, 08:37:30 AM »
Ran,
Thanks for the write up. St Geogre's has long been one of my favorite courses. I really enjoyed the history lesson. I had no idea that the course used to start on 12, especially with such an amazing build up to the current 18th hole.  One of the best rounds of my ever was at St George's on a day that the first tee was crowded, and we started on 12, I thought we played the course out of order, now I will say we played in the original order!
St George's is very lucky to have a president who has been a member for a very long time, and has a true love for St George's, classic golf courses, and it shows.

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St. George's Golf & Country Club, NY profile is posted...
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2013, 08:26:30 PM »
The course has one of the best finishes of any course I've played.  Those closing holes are really, really fun to play.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

mark chalfant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St. George's Golf & Country Club, NY profile is posted...
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2013, 05:46:00 PM »
Ran,

Thanks for this excellent look at  one of Devereux's most appealing designs. The profuse bunkering , angles of play, and wide fairways are  stellar. The  rich variety of greens and holes is akin to  the features of some of his  many "lost"  NLE gems.

congrats to the club,  Adam, and Gil for restoring this treasure
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 03:08:55 PM by mark chalfant »

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St. George's Golf & Country Club, NY profile is posted...
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2013, 10:49:29 PM »
Great profile of a super-fun course.  And it even got Arble praising bunkers!

Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St. George's Golf & Country Club, NY profile is posted...
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2013, 08:54:18 AM »
Great article.  It was Mike Whitaker who turned me on to this place three years ago, and now it's one of my favorites.  What a place!  It has everything Pat Mucci likes in a golf course.  Great greens, not too long, and quirk!
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St. George's Golf & Country Club, NY profile is posted...
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2013, 04:09:32 PM »
The course has one of the best finishes of any course I've played.  Those closing holes are really, really fun to play.

I like the "drivable" 16th  ;D.

Wonderful review and course! I was so fortunate to play here this summer and cannot overstate how well we were treated. Kudos on the work that has gone into that club from an all too humble group!

Patrick Kiser

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: St. George's Golf & Country Club, NY profile is posted...
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2013, 01:14:17 PM »
One thing I'll add and have not seen thus far here is the tremendous and effective use of ... blindness.  I think anyone would be hard pressed to find such a well executed course with its use of blindness.  In fact, it's a combination of blindness with the frequent opportunity of knowing ahead of the hole where the blindness lies.  A great feature on this course is to see ahead for pin positions and ... blindness.  It's just a brilliant case example.

In addition, the use of camouflage in some areas is wonderful.  Take Joe's pic of the 17th with the 13th in the immediate background.  Guess what you're thinking from that 13th fairway without knowing the green is well below the horizon?  You're thinking that 17th green is the 13th green!  Absolutely brilliant.  The "ah ha" moment as one crests the downslope to the approach can only make one smile I think.

I'd like to also commend the staff and crew at St.George's and especially salute Adam Jessie.  They are well deserving of the accolades.
“One natural hazard, however, which is more
or less of a nuisance, is water. Water hazards
absolutely prohibit the recovery shot, perhaps
the best shot in the game.” —William Flynn, golf
course architect