FACE-OFF: Streamsong or World Woods?

[JNC Lyon]

In the month that I've lived in Florida, I've gotten the opportunity to see one of the two courses at both Streamsong and World Woods.  Based on that limited experience, it seems like there is hope for Florida golf after all!  Flat?  Houses? Wall-to-wall cart paths, gators, manmade lakes?  I've certainly seen it in Florida golf courses in the past, but none of this describes the architecture at WW or SS.  

Streamsong Red is certainly a masterpiece, with a landscape that combines south Florida scrub (a look I think is underrepresented in the golf world), mining-created dunescape, and just enough pristine wetlands areas to enhance the atmosphere without hindering playability.  On top of that, the architecture on the Red Course is phenomenal, as expected.  Strategic decisions both subtle and dramatic, and green complexes among the best I've seen in my limited experience.  The setting puts it right up there with a Ballyneal or a Royal St. George's in terms of drama and a beautiful feeling of remoteness.

World Woods, found in an entirely different part of the state, is a rustic adventure through rolling central Florida forest land.  In addition, Pine Barrens (the course I got to play today with Kevin Lynch) brings some dynamite golf holes, with the all-world alternate route holes at 4 and 15 constituting some of the very best I've seen.  Be it from a temporary departure from his normal style or from more lean maintenance practices, World Woods lacks the flash and sterility I've seen from Fazio in the past.  It is rugged and subtle, and it hangs together as a unit as well as any modern course I've seen.  And, as I mentioned to Kevin, the courses seems like one where you could go out on a late afternoon, sling your clubs over your shoulder, and feel like your the only person on the planet.

So having since one-half of each of the two 36 hole facilities, I can't imagine there are many such facilities that are better than these two places.  I'm eager to get back to both places in the very near future--especially since they are no longer a plane flight away!

But enough praise and adulation here.  Let's ask get the tough stuff!  If you had to choose one facility in the state of Florida, would it be World Woods or Streamsong?  Keep EVERYTHING in mind here--the architecture, the value, the ambiance, even the lunch if you want to! (I highly recommend the brisket special at World Woods)

Please, don't give me a one-word or one-sentence answer here!  It's not that simple of a question.  What do you look for in a golf course?  What do you value about a golf day trip?  What inspires you or moves you when you're playing a golf course?

Of course, I won't reveal my answer just yet...

[Bill_McBride]

This is a difficult call, as the value propositions are very different.

Streamsong's courses to me are head and shoulders above Pine Barrens (although I haven't played Rolling Oaks to make the full comparison), but WW is a much less expensive weekend.  I think of WWPB as a few good holes, while the two courses at Streamsong are both very high quality. 

I'm giving the nod to Streamsong in spite of the cost differential, because I prefer the courses so much. 

[Bryan Izatt]

As Bill states, it's a difficult call because I, at least am slightly biased by the price and kind of place each is.  

It's also a difficult compare because the WW courses are much more parkland courses than Streamsong courses, which are more linksy (although inland).  

I, for one, think that PB is very strong architecturally and stands close to either Streamsong course.  The more I've played RO the more it grows on me. Both courses at Streamsong are also very strong.  To me, it's a fool's game to try to rank one against the other.  All four courses are amongst the best in Florida and I'd be happy to play any of them repeatedly.  The economics dictate that I will play more at WW than Streamsong in the future.  

If anyone is interested, perhaps we could do a hole by hole comparison of say SS Blue vs WW PB.  


WW PB Hole 1 - Downhill then uphill mid length par 4 with a lovely pine barrens setting.  Lay up left off the tee short of the bunkers for a good angle at the elevated green.  Go long right for a shorter second at a worse angle over a bunker.  Green is small and elevated and partially blind and runs subtly off in all directions.  Tough to hit and subtle putts.

SS Blue - Wonderful view from elevated tee, but you can drive the ball almost anywhere and have a decent second shot.  I can't drive it far enough so the second is more or less blind.  The green is large and sloped so getting close to the pin is tough and the green provides interesting putts.

WW PB to me by a slight margin - a bit more of a challenge for the first although each is a fine introduction to the style of the course.

[Pete_Pittock]

I'd have to go with World Woods considering price point and the practice facilities - a four sided range, a par 29 short course and a superb putting green. The hot dogs also fit in a lot better.  That said, SS routs WW with the two golf courses, but loses at Scrabble 8-2.

[jeffwarne]

Depends on tastes and needs.

Both great places.

For the 36 a day guy:

a 36 hole day at World Woods is hard to beat, and the only criticism i have at WW is easily self fixed by picking a varied set of tees on the par threes. I happen to really like WW RO so that helps.

a 36 hole day at Streamsong is either going to be VERY,VERY expensive with much higher green fees, cart and caddie fees,$500-600+
or simply expensive($350) and EXHAUSTING walking and carrying 36.

If you're a Holiday Inn and a bowling alley/ local pub kind've guy, it's WW by a mile.

If you're looking for a luxury hotel, fru fru dinner and a lot of logoed sweater vests  at night it's Streamsong.

As you may have guessed, I'm headed back to WW next, but appreciate the courses at SS, and certainly would combine the two courses on a trip if time allowed.

[Adam Clayman]

I'm with Peter Pittock.

Since mollycoddling feels like blowing sunshine, where sun should never see the light of day, I'm a huge fan of the value and attitudes, found north of Tampa.

My pick might've been different, if current maintenance practices, on the Rolling Oaks, hadn't brought out the design's heretofore over-saturated character.  

[Joel_Stewart]

Streamsong for me.  WW are basically copy cat courses.  One is modeled after Augusta and the other Pine Valley.  Neither is that unique.  Streamsong is very unique with holes you don't see often.  I'm a little critical of the red course because it's so difficult especially for a mid to high handicapper but its still better than either of the courses at WW.

  

[Cliff Hamm]

Frankly a no-brainer for me. $100 or less for excellent golf and cart or $225 for superb golf, a cart and a required but unwanted forecaddie. A hot dog and Diet Coke for five dollars or so or a $12 hotdog which I hear is no longer in existence. The low service, low key approach or the high service, yes sir approach.

I'll play Streamsong once and then take World Woods for the rest of my life based on price and atmosphere.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I played both places this past spring.  I had played WW previously so I was familiar with the courses.  If it is just the golf I would give the edge to Streamsong.  If it is value then it is WW hands down.  But how do you go wrong with either?

[BCowan]

Played PB Thur last week and playing RO WW tomrw morning.  I will wait till rates drop at Streamsong.  I drive an hour to play WW and studies showed i believe 15 years ago that many people do travel up to an hour for good/great golf.  PB needs to cut trees down and have rakes in or next to the bunkers.  I hate rakes in the back of carts.  World Woods is in much better shape than when i played it 16 years ago.  Looking forward to RO oaks tomrw.  The fact that i can walk a course in florida and play for $35 is tough to beat.  

   Streamsong looks like an incredible piece of land and the arch's speak for themselves.  I'd pay $125-150 to carry at Streamsong, next winter i may.  

[Eric Smith]

John,

Don't hate my answer but both are such good options for a FLA golf getaway there's no practical reason for me to choose one over the other as it's likely I'll visit them on some sort of a rotating basis. I last visited WW in 2011 and made it down to SS earlier this year, so I'll look forward to hopefully meeting you in Brooksville sometime in the near future.

[JNC Lyon]

Streamsong for me.  WW are basically copy cat courses.  One is modeled after Augusta and the other Pine Valley.  Neither is that unique.  Streamsong is very unique with holes you don't see often.  I'm a little critical of the red course because it's so difficult especially for a mid to high handicapper but its still better than either of the courses at WW.

  

Joel,

I have to take issue with your analysis of the World Woods courses as being "copycats."  This was simply the marketing schtick of the facility when it first opened--it doesn't necessarily have any bearing on the actual architecture on the ground.  This view also short-changes the courses in question.  To quote from Ran's profile of Pine Barrens:

"Marketing campaigns that claim a course is the ‘next Augusta National’ or the ‘Pebble Beach of the east’ tend to alienate some golfers. After all, why bother playing a poor copy? An example is the Pine Barrens course at World Woods that many golf writers have dubbed as ‘the poor man’s Pine Valley.’ Such comparisons were intended to be highly complimentary, but in the end they have caused some serious golfers to underestimate the course and to deem it not worthy of a trip. This is a great shame."

Is WWPB as good as Pine Valley?  Of course not!  There are maybe half a dozen courses that can compete (I assume, since I haven't played PVGC).  That doesn't mean World Woods Pine Barrens is without merit.  Besides, there are clearly BIG differences between PVGC and WWPB.  The playing surface and locale immediately come to mind.  In addition, Pine Barrens has two things PVGC lacks: a great short par five, and a legitimate drivable par four.  On top of all that, Pine Barrens is very forgiving tee to green (much more so, I thought, than Streamsong Red would be for a mid-to-high handicapper).

I hope to play Rolling Oaks soon, but I gather that it is nothing like Augusta National.  It appears to have three times as many bunkers, and it appears to have about a third of the elevation change.

Let's not dismiss World Woods (or any other course, for that matter) as a "copycat" based simply on a Golf Digest ad intended to generate revenue.  Rather, let's assess the holes that are on the ground.  As far as "unique" goes, I've never seen golf holes quite like 4 and 15 at Pine Barrens.  I can't say that for too many holes on courses I've played.

[Jay Flemma]

How about both?  I agree with Tommy.  The great value is there at World Woods, especially in winter.  There's more strategy at Streamsong.  World Woods is wonderful, though.  I always enjoy Pine Barrens every time I play it, and I love playing thirty-six a day there.  Loads of fun and memories.

[Tom_Doak]

The funny thing about this comparison is that the only reason World Woods is so much less expensive than Streamsong, is because that's the most they have been able to charge and get people to show up.  If you believe in market-based economics, then the price for each course is exactly what it needs to be ... although Streamsong is probably still too young for the market to have determined its value.

I don't think it has anything to do with the "values" of their ownership.  One would charge more if they could.  The other will charge less if they have to.  That is the way it is with privately-owned, daily-fee golf courses.  If you know of an exception to the rule, where an ownership is turning away easy money, let me know ... or let THEM know.

[Carl Rogers]

Isn't this the usual debate on where you play once for the experience vs everyday play where it is more practical?

Wouldn't the best time of year to play WW or SS (or anywhere in Florida) be in April?  The northeners have all left, the kids are back in school, pre-season baseball has finished and it is not super hot?

[BCowan]

Carl

    I played WW RO this morning and played in 3.5 hrs.  The first 5 holes are rather boring and the course routing from there on isn't that bad.  I think December is the best time of year to play in Florida, there isn't much play and April I am itching to play my home track up north!  Back to WW, the pro said they get 100-125 people a course in jan-march and the green fees go up drastically in Jan!  i think WW lacks the attention to detail, maint., and design that a Streamsong looks as though it has...  Also i think that Streamsong attracts more Walkers from the NE that value great Golf Arch.  WW allows walking but i don't think that it is set up for walking like i presume SS is making it feel more run of the mill public.  WW is much better than the average/above average Florida course.  I played with another fellow GCAer at WW PB who has also played SS and he thinks highly of both.  I agree with the everyday play practical vs experience comparison.  Look forward to playing SS....