[Andy Gray]

I am currently in Phoenix after having to fly here suddenly from Australia for a personal situation, and have a bit of time on my hands up until Christmas. I was thinking of playing some golf over the next couple of days/weekend and was wondering if anyone was available for a game? If time permits I will play two or three rounds. I am thinking the courses I need to see are, in order:

Apache Stronghold
We Ko Pa Saguaro
Talking Stick North
Talking Stick South

Are there any other courses that should make the list ahead of those?

If you are interested in playing PM me or respond here and we can try set something up.

Cheers,

Andy

[Sven Nilsen]

Andy:

Throw Vista Verde on the list.

Sven

[Matthew Sander]

Andy,

I really enjoyed Southern Dunes (Curley/Schmidt - Couples) in Maricopa - http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,48222.0.html

I've gone back and forth between SD and WeKoPa Saguaro for my favorite public (of those I've played) in the area. For me it is nearly a toss up, with Saguaro maybe slightly ahead.

[Jerry Kluger]

It really depends upon where you are in the area and how far you want to drive.  I would put Vista Verde at the top of the list and the Champions course at the TPC is also good but don't bother with the stadium course.  Papago is also fun and very reasonable.  Apache Stronghold is very rarely in good enough condition to be worth playing and Talking Stick can be overpriced.  Quintero is worth playing if you want to drive all the way out there but it is more eye candy than strategy.  As an aside, I always stop at Jerry's Golf Balls in Phoenix where you can get great deals on golf balls that maintenance crews pick up in the desert - no, I am not that Jerry and have no connection to it.  

[Andy Gray]

Sven,

Where would you put Vista Verde on that list?

Thanks for the suggestion Matthew, I'll do a bit more research.

Jerry,

Is the architecture at Apache good enough to make it worth playing on a badly conditioned course? I'm not too fussed about my score, would rather see courses that I can learn something from. Would you skip Talking Stick for the other courses mentioned (price not a factor)?

Thanks guys.

Andy

[Jud_T]

I definitely wouldn't skip Talking Stick North, but you can probably finesse the South course.  If you have access sounds like the renovated Desert Forest is the hot ticket in town.

[Sven Nilsen]

Andy:

Here's my list:

Saguaro
TSN
Vista Verde

Haven't played Apache or Southern Dunes.  Didn't love TSS.

If you're looking to play 36, you can do Saguaro and VV in the same day.  And unless your band has hit it big, the price should be right at VV.

Sven

[Jeff Shelman]

I like Saguaro quite a bit. TSN is good. I agree on Southern Dunes being pretty good.

If you end up in the West Valley, I think both Raven at Verrado and Trilogy at Vistancia are good. Wigwam Gold is a good classic course and a great break from desert golf.

I haven't gotten to Vista Verde, but will at the end of January.

I don't recommend Quintero at all. It's just not that interesting and it feels like many of the par 4s and par 5s are variations of about two holes.
 

[Andy Gray]

Thanks all for the input.

Sounds like my list should look something like this:

We Ko Pa Saguaro
Talking Stick North
Vista Verde
Southern Dunes/Apache(?)

I doubt I will have enough time for four rounds, and it doesn't sound like anyone is pushing Apache to hard so maybe drop that and make it out there if I can? And I will call Desert Forest and see if they will take an international visitor. Where would that fit in the list? I recall Ran speaking very highly of it in his review.

Hopefully someone in the Phoenix area is keen for a game!

Andy

[Wayne_Freedman]

Vista Verde is a quite pleasant play. It has broad fairways, and still strategic. Use it as a warm-up  for the tougher ones to follow.

All of your choices are excellent. You're in for a great time.

[Jason Topp]

Southern Dunes over Apache, particularly at this time of year. 

If cost or travel time is an issue, let us know where you are staying and I can make some other suggestions.

[Bill_McBride]

If you are in the west end, I really like the Wigwam Gold.   It's a LONG way from Scottsdale.  

[Andy Gray]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

I think I'll be playing in this order (not sure how many rounds).

We Ko Pa Saguaro
Vista Verde
Talking Stick North
Southern Dunes
Wigwam Gold (if time permits)

Bill, I'm on the east side around Mesa, I think if I'm here long enough to get through the four above I'll then head over to Wigwam (a few people have mentioned it).

Thanks Jason, it is unfortunate that Apache is in bad shape, maybe I'll make it back in the next few years.

Thanks for the confirmation Wayne, this being an unexpected trip, I didn't have time to do any research.

Also, if anyone knows a GCA-er in the Phoenix area, give them a heads up for a round.

Cheers,

Andy

[Ben Carey]

Since you're going to be in the Mesa area, Longbow is worthy of consideration.

I was out at Saguaro a few weeks ago and it was in great shape.
A big +1 to Southern Dunes as well, great track.

[Bill_McBride]

Tom Yost, Tom Renli and Steve Shaffer are your PHX guys, bring your checkbook!

[HarryBrinkerhoffDoyleIV_aka_Barry]

+1 for Desert Forest.  I love that place!  If you are up for a drive, Forest Highlands in Flagstaff is also fabulous, though I'm not sure on their snow pack to date (they very well may be closed for the winter already).

[John Crowley]

Andy,  A call to Desert Forest is defiantly worth it. It is number one by a mile even before the recent renovation. Good luck!

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Andy,

I'll gladly accompany you at Wigwam Gold. It's about an hour drive from Mesa for you. I live nearby The Wigwam resort. Send me a message.

I may even be tempted to play Vista Verde with you if my schedule permits.

Steve

[Andy Gray]

So many options!

Steve, that would be great. When can you play?

New priority:

Saguaro
TSN
Wigwam
VV/SD

If I manage to get to Desert Forest, then I guess VV/SD will fall off that list. My reasoning is Desert Forest, We Ko Pa and Talking Stick North are must sees, the others are a step below. Anyone correct me if I'm mistaken.

It looks like TSN will be first up tomorrow!

[Matt Osborne]

This was a great topic to stumble onto as I will be in Phoenix over New Year's.

I'll be just south of Phoenix near Casa Grande.  I will probably only have time to play one course.  I assume Desert Forrest is the one to play?  How far of a drive is that?  And is it as simple as a phone call to try and get on?  

Also, if not Desert Forest (I'm feeling like it is a fairly long drive), which is the one I should see baring in mind the south Phoenix location?

Thanks in advance and sorry for all the questions from a newbie.  

[Jeff Shelman]

Matt,

I think Desert Forest would be the best if you can pull it off.

Based on your location, Southern Dunes is the closest to you. I time is a consideration, you could go there and have a lovely day. It is a pretty fun course and a great walk.

Otherwise Saguaro and TSN would be good. Longer drives, but good golf.

[Tom Yost]

Andy,

Wish I could join you but work and family commitments have my schedule packed until after Christmas.

You have the recommendations of 5 or 6 of the best public access options in town.  Saguaro might be my favorite, but as Jeff mentioned, Southern Dunes will be most convenient.  It is a very good choice, certainly in my top 5.

*EDIT* Sorry, it's Matt that will be in Casa Grande...

As for Apache Stronghold, I have reports from friends who played it this fall and it appears that they are doing some work out there, bunker renovations and such, a very positive sign.  But knowing how very neglected it had become, they still have a way to go.  If you are interested in seeing a brilliant design and have virtually no concern about conditioning, it would be worthy of a visit.  

[Paul OConnor]

Since you're getting mostly the same 5-6 names, I'd also suggest a little ride out to Mesa to play Longbow.  The course was fun, was in pretty good shape, is not surrounded by housing, and beats the greens fee larceny of most of Scottsdale.   Everybody LOVES We-Ko-Pa, but its $225 in season, Talking Stick is $175.  Longbow is $140, so it's a little break.  

We always tried to book one of the first couple of after 2:00 rounds at Talking Stick North too, only $110, and we always finished before dark.  I'd skip Talking Stick South, it's a piece of crap.

On the day we flew out, we would play the ASU Karsten course, which gets panned on GCA, but isn't too bad.  I played there once, and one of the bozos I got paired with not once but twice drove out to the tee ball I had just hit, and picked it up like he found a lost ball.  I'm like "hey dickface, that's MY fucking ball, could you just leave it on the fucking ground please."  Or try Papago, which I really liked.  Both are close to the airport so you could play in the morning and catch an early PM flight.

[Andy Gray]

Thanks for the info Paul. If I were staying longer or had planned this trip I would definitely get to some other courses. As I can only play 4 times or so I will aim to get to the main 4 courses mentioned.

i Played We Ko Pa Saguaro today. Was running late so they bumped my tee time to 1:10pm and only charged me $100 for the round. I went off the 10th, passed two groups on the back 9 and was literally the only person on the frontside. I was finished by 3:45pm, while being fast, I never felt too rushed. And this included playing multiple types of shots from the fairway and trying different putts on the greens. I will post more about the courses later upon reflection and comparison.

That's unfortunate Tom, it would be great to play with you. Having played Saguaro, would you play Talking Stick North or Southern Dunes? After playing Saguaro I am tending to think that TSN may be at the very least similar, while Southern Dunes will give me an entirely different experience? Any answers today would be great, was going to head to one or the other tomorrow!

[Matt Bielawa]

I have no idea whether this would be the case this time of year, but I played Southern Dunes in June, and I'd recommend bringing lots of bug spray.  Maybe that's not the case this time of year though.  The course is in a semi-rural location and there were lots of flies around.  I had been warned in advance and came prepared.  Definitely a decent course, and a different feel from the typical desert course....in fact, not really a desert course at all.

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