Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?

[Chris_Blakely]

Where did I read that Harlem Valley was a Ross? It escapes me! I may play there anyway as it looked inteesting and along my way anyway. Was Sewell's Point an original Flynn and a Ross re-do?

PS: I read it on their website:

http://www.harlemvalleygolfclub.com

It seems like many try and attach Ross to their course for the wow factor.

I am aware the course says Ross designed it as I have played it and been on their site!!  If you want I can name many other courses that purport themselves to be Ross.

Chris

[Sean_A]

Back in 2013 I listed LuLu, Franklin Hills and Grosse Ile as my favourite courses.  Well, I have played a few more since then and Aiken is now my #1.  Its far from great, but it is good and has a great vibe.  LuLu drops to #2.  Roaring Gap is my third choice.  Its an incredibly hilly course for walking, but the setting and greens are a delight.  Honourable mention for Mimosa Hills and Franklin Hills. 

Ciao

[Brian Finn]

Back in 2013 I listed LuLu, Franklin Hills and Grosse Ile as my favourite courses.  Well, I have played a few more since then and Aiken is now my #1.  Its far from great, but it is good and has a great vibe.  LuLu drops to #2.  Roaring Gap is my third choice.  Its an incredibly hilly course for walking, but the setting and greens are a delight.  Honourable mention for Mimosa Hills and Franklin Hills. 

Ciao

I love Aiken, but I had no idea Ross was in any way involved with designing or building it. 

[BCowan]

1. Inverness (even with fazio holes, do not like the new renovations)(Paging Ron Prichard)
2. #2  (played in 98')
3. Mid Pines 
4. Grosse Ile (MI, awesome ross greens)
5. Pine Needles
6. Tiffin Mohawk, Tiffin,OH (back 9 is ross)
7. Scioto (good course, not great)
8. Roseland Windsor,ON (Great Ross muni)
9. Barton Hills (played prior to renovation)

1. #2     9
2.  Holston Hills  8.4
3.  Canton Brookside  (Best Greens, needs tree removal)  8.3
3.  Mid Pines  8.3  (Fix 3 and remove trees)
5.  Franklin Hills  8.1  (Fix 17 and firm up)
Back 9 at Tiffin Mohawk  8  (Stay the way you are)
6.  Inverness   7.6  (can't wait till next year, Bye Fazio!!!!)
7.  Timuquana  7.1  (pure greens, great club, more tree removal and fill in ponds!)
8.  Scioto     7     (Overrated but enjoyable)
9.  Pine Needles  6.9   (Solid par 3's)
10. Ravisloe         6.8   (underrated and very enjoyable)
11. Oakland Hills S   6.7   (Play 6, 8, 9, and 11 twice and walk in)

2nd best Ross Greens Grosse Ile  6

[Sean_A]

Back in 2013 I listed LuLu, Franklin Hills and Grosse Ile as my favourite courses.  Well, I have played a few more since then and Aiken is now my #1.  Its far from great, but it is good and has a great vibe.  LuLu drops to #2.  Roaring Gap is my third choice.  Its an incredibly hilly course for walking, but the setting and greens are a delight.  Honourable mention for Mimosa Hills and Franklin Hills. 

Ciao

I love Aiken, but I had no idea Ross was in any way involved with designing or building it.

Brian

I am very unsure of any Ross involvement at Aiken, but it sure feels like a Ross...no?  However, I have never seen anything in writing connecting the two. I am happy to elimnate Aiken from the list....these Ross course are that strong

LuLu
Roaring Gap
Mimosa Hills...a very spartan set-up, but pleasant....some damn good holes as well!

Ciao

[Tim Martin]

For a regional take I'll pick 3 each from CT, MA and RI:


CT-
CC of Waterbury
Wampanoag
Shennecossett


MA-
Worcester
Winchester
Whitinsville


RI
Wannamoisett
Metacomet
Misquamicut


I love all the above but if I had a gun to my head as far as pure fun I would take Misquamicut. The land movement right at sea level is incredible on the outgoing holes and then 11-17 play across 1A out along Narraganset Bay. The rumpled fairway on the opener lets you know you are in for a treat and it doesn't disappoint. Two other highlights are the par 3 # 8 "Volcano" hole and the majestic tee shot on # 10. I can't imagine anyone feeling cheated on a scorecard that tops out at around 6200 yards.

[Brian Finn]

Refuse to play Seminole due to allowing of 5 somes. 

I forgot how amazing this thread was.   

[BCowan]

Refuse to play Seminole due to allowing of 5 somes. 

I forgot how amazing this thread was.   

[Brian Finn]

My favorite Ross course that I have played is Plainfield CC.  It seemed a perfect member's club / course for frequent play.  It is definitely a course where I wanted to walk from 18 green straight to the first tee.

Close behind would be Pinehurst #2 (pre-resto), which I am eager to play again...photos of C&C work look incredible.

Holston Hills and Brookside CC are two other outstanding Ross courses that are among my favorite courses by any architect.

Scioto CC, Mountain Ridge and Hyde Park G&CC are 3 others that I really enjoyed playing.

2014 plans include trips to both Minneapolis and Detroit, where I hope to see some more great Ross (big targets are WBYC & Oakland Hills).

My favorite Ross remains Plainfield, with #2 (post-restoration) close behind.  I can think of at least 25 Ross courses that I really enjoy and only a handful that I don't.

In rough order:  Plainfield, Pinehurst #2, Oakland Hills South, Brookside (Canton), Holston Hills, Roaring Gap, Augusta CC, Mid Pines, Scioto, Pine Needles, Charlotte CC, Mountain Ridge, Carolina GC, Hyde Park, Mimosa Hills, Columbus CC, Southern Pines, Springfield, Sedgefield, Shaker Heights, Myers Park, Ravisloe, Granville, Congress Lake, Broadmoor, Shennecossett, Lu Lu, Grove Park Inn, Camden, Catawba, Miami Valley...

Having moved to NC two years ago, I am trying to see all of the Ross courses in the state (and surrounding areas).  Some real sleepers include Ross nines at Fort Mill and Monroe, both just south of Charlotte. 

[Michael George]

Here is a ranking of Ross courses in Ohio (due to my bias I separate them from outside Ohio):

1 - Brookside
2 - Inverness
3 - Scioto
4 - Shaker Heights
5 - Congress Lake
6 - Hawthorne Valley
7 - Youngstown
8 - Manakiki

Haven't played Springfield, Hyde Park, Granville or Columbus.  Acacia and Oakwood are NLE.   

Outside of Ohio, I would highly recommend 2 hidden gems - Roaring Gap Club and Lake Sunapee.  Both are really good.  I don't know if they are better than the Essex County (MA) and Pinehurst #2 (both great courses and probably my top 2 Ross courses), but they are very special places.

[Mark Pritchett]

I'm a big fan of Ross and count No. 2 and Essex County as my favorites.  Also think the world of Wannamoisett and Seminole. 

[Josh Tarble]

I can't wait to play more Ross courses...just need to get out east a bit more.  Top on my list to play would be Canton Brookside, Roaring Gap, Plainfield and Wannamoisett.


My list of played (in rough order) goes as such:


Seminole - by a long shot.  It's amazing how great of a routing it is, every hole perfectly utilizes it's given terrain as well.  Back 9 is one of the best 9 holes in the world, if not the best


Holston Hills - a pretty decent step down from Seminole, but still a fantastic course.  Would be a great place to play everyday.
Hyde Park (OH) - super fun course with some very wild greens.  I probably rate it a bit higher than most, as it does need some more tree clearing.
Beverly - if I were rating clubs this one would be tops, but the course is still fantastic and getting better with yearly tree work. The par 3s and par 5s are what hold it down just a bit in my opinion.  They're very strong, just not as good as the 3 above it on my list
Donald Ross French Lick - a fantastic roller coaster of a course.  The use of the wild terrain is remarkable.  Par 3s are over the top and hold this place back
Broadmoor - my home course and I love it.  Very short but the greens make up for it.  I'm only slightly exaggerating when I say the greens are top 2 or 3 I've ever played.  In my opinion greens are as good and varied as places like Crystal Downs and Pasatiempo.
Idle Hour - really great course in Lexington, KY. The history of the club is very cool as are the naming of the holes after horses owned by club members.  I don't like some of the modernization this course has gotten.  Added more brawn and removed some of the character in my opinion.
East Lake - a bit similar to Idle Hour in that it lacks some of the character that makes Ross courses great.  The routing is still very good, but the greens and bunkering are a bit vanilla, but still excellent
Shennecossett - hidden gem status.  This scruffy little muni is awesome and the bar in the clubhouse is top notch.  I didn't mind the holes down by the water but they're definitely crammed in and out of character.  The par 3s (minus the new one) are top notch.

[Jim Franklin]

Essex County is my #1 followed closely by #2. Have we determined if White Bear Yacht Club is a Ross or a Willie Watson? If it is in the Ross repertoire, then it slides in at #3.

[Tim Martin]

Shennecossett - hidden gem status.  This scruffy little muni is awesome and the bar in the clubhouse is top notch.  I didn't mind the holes down by the water but they're definitely crammed in and out of character.  The par 3s (minus the new one) are top notch.

Josh-Solid review of Shennecossett especially the new holes.  I wonder about those three new holes(15-17) whenever I play and think that instead of starting with the par 3 you could have a much nicer look at the Thames River straight on with a tee shot from where the new 17th green now sits to the new 16th green. You could have two threes on 16 and 17 with plenty of room or a 3 and a short 4(par stays the same)before you cross the street. Its a blast every time you play and the wind off the River and LI Sound lurks and usually blows. If you are a Groton resident and show up in Town Hall to pay your yearly ticket you should have a gun and a mask because correct me if I'm wrong but that's a 211 in progress.

[PCCraig]

Have we determined if White Bear Yacht Club is a Ross or a Willie Watson? If it is in the Ross repertoire, then it slides in at #3.

I suppose it depends on how you define a "Donald Ross Course." I think it's clear that he was there and contributed to the design at some point after Watson. But to what extent he altered the design is unknown, I believe. (Or at least I've lost track). There are a lot of courses listed above in this thread that I believe are just Ross-redesigns/tweaks of existing golf courses.


One really great "Ross" course that folks haven't mentioned yet is Cedar Rapids CC. He did a significant renovation of a Bendelow course there. The restoration work there by Prichard is fantastic and hopefully many folks enjoy it in a couple weeks at the 2017 Mashie.

[Jud_T]

1.  #2
2.  Old Elm
3. Skokie
4. Beverly
5. Barton Hills
6. Exmoor
7. Bob'O'Link
8. Broadmoor
9. Pine Needles
10. Ravisloe
11. Kenosha CC
12. Kingswood, NH


Apparently I haven't met a Ross course I don't like as I'd recommend any and all of these tracks, even if some may allow the occasional fivesome...

[BHoover]

Brookside
Oakland Hills
Scioto
White Bear Yacht Club
Timuquana
Springfield
Minikahda
Columbus
Granville
Southern Pines
Congress Lake

[Josh Tarble]

Shennecossett - hidden gem status.  This scruffy little muni is awesome and the bar in the clubhouse is top notch.  I didn't mind the holes down by the water but they're definitely crammed in and out of character.  The par 3s (minus the new one) are top notch.

Josh-Solid review of Shennecossett especially the new holes.  I wonder about those three new holes(15-17) whenever I play and think that instead of starting with the par 3 you could have a much nicer look at the Thames River straight on with a tee shot from where the new 17th green now sits to the new 16th green. You could have two threes on 16 and 17 with plenty of room or a 3 and a short 4(par stays the same)before you cross the street. Its a blast every time you play and the wind off the River and LI Sound lurks and usually blows. If you are a Groton resident and show up in Town Hall to pay your yearly ticket you should have a gun and a mask because correct me if I'm wrong but that's a 211 in progress.

I don't know how much else they could have really done with those 3 holes.  I think anything they did was going to feel crammed in.  I wouldn't hate the routing going in reverse.  The other 15 are so good I suppose it was worth it taking the cash and keeping the cost low for residents (with that don't know the resident price, but we played for $25 walking!). 

[Matt Wharton]

Cool to revisit this thread today.  Since 2013 I've had the pleasure of playing Hope Valley CC, Biltmore Forest CC, & Augusta CC. Interestingly all three courses share Brian Silva as architect for their most recent of renovations.  I really liked both BF and ACC, an amazing feel of character at both.  My experience at Hope Valley was not as pleasant most likely due to playing in late March while the course was still dormant brown, approach shots landing short of the elevated greens rolled several yards back down the hills on the dormant turf.


Last year I acquired a set of hickory golf clubs and started playing Carolina GC with them.  So much fun and the hickory game helps reveal aspects about the course design that might be overlooked playing with modern equipment.  I've also played Mimosa Hills CC with them and last summer traveled to Pinehurst for a weekend golf getaway with Mrs. Greenkeeper.  Played both Mid-Pines and Southern Pines with the hickory clubs, that was a blast!!  Really want to get back to Roaring Gap and play the hickories there, that would be special. 


Of course Carolina is favorite, but I'm biased. 


Cheers,

[Paul Jones]

White Bear Yacht Club is my favorite - it is just a neat place and really fun golf course.

[Tim Martin]

Brookside
Oakland Hills
Scioto
White Bear Yacht Club
Timuquana
Springfield
Minikahda
Columbus
Granville
Southern Pines
Congress Lake

The acclaim Brookside gets is universal and seems to get the same level of adoration as Plainfield, Seminole, Essex County, Wannamoisett and White Bear Yacht Club. I've read a bunch of posters say it's their favorite Ross on this thread and others over the years.

[Ken Kearney]

Where is the best restoration of a DR course and why??
We dont have any in Ireland but am interested.


Thanks, KK

[Brian Finn]

Brookside
Oakland Hills
Scioto
White Bear Yacht Club
Timuquana
Springfield
Minikahda
Columbus
Granville
Southern Pines
Congress Lake

The acclaim Brookside gets is universal and seems to get the same level of adoration as Plainfield, Seminole, Essex County, Wannamoisett and White Bear Yacht Club. I've read a bunch of posters say it's their favorite Ross on this thread and others over the years.

Brookside looks and feels extremely similar to Plainfield.  They have similar terrain and both courses have incredible greens.  Brookside is a bit underrated in magazine rankings.  Comparing it to another great Ohio Ross course, I think it is a better course than Scioto.  It easily meets the criteria of a Doak 8 (One of the very best courses in its region (although there are more 8s in some places and none in others), and worth a special trip to see. Could have some drawbacks, but these will clearly be spelled out, and it will make up for them with something really special in addition to the generally excellent layout).

[Dan_Callahan]

When I lived in western Mass, it occurred to me that I could be very happy playing the rest of my golf on Longmeadow and The Orchards. Two under appreciated and very fun Ross designs.

[George Pazin]

Brookside CC (Canton, OH) is without doubt my favorite Ross.  The greens are fabulous with lots of movement (both severe and subtle slopes), false fronts, mounding, internal shelves, and even a couple fall-off areas.  The property features lots of elevation changes and rolling hills.  There are downhill tee shots, uphill tee shots; short par 3s and long par 3s.  Post-renovation/restoration in the early 2000s, it plays firm and fast and features squared-off greens and Ross-style grass-faced bunkering.  I could play there everyday and not get tired of it.

Other Ross courses that I like are Timuquana CC (Jacksonville) and Scioto CC (okay, so there isn't a lot of Ross left).  In 2014, I'm looking forward to playing a few new Ross courses--Oakland Hills, Inverness, Holston Hills, Springfield CC (Ohio).   

Brian, from what I've seen in old photos I wouldn't call grass-faced bunkering "Ross style."

Mark, take a read of Bradley Klein's Discovering Donld Ross (if you have not already done so).  What I got from Brad is that Ross used a wide variety of bunker styles, and that one cannot really say only "one" style is a Ross style.  (Grassed-faced seems to be one of Ross's styles.)  I'm no expert myself, but Brad is (if anyone).  Does that mean he's gospel?  No, but read his book and see what you think.

The single most educational thread in the history of golfclubatlas was maybe 15 years ago and it was titled "Bunker Quiz", if memory serves. The poster who started the thread, Tom MacWood, who sadly passed at too young of an age and is likely not even known by many on here, posted a series of photos, maybe 20 or so, and asked everyone to identify who did each bunker.


The guesses were impressive - quite a large of variety offered by many of the most passionate and thoughtful golfers around, imho. Colt for this one, Mackenzie for that one, Macdonald, Raynor, Ross, Alison, simpson, etc, etc.


The answer came a few pages into the thread: they were all done by Ross.


The esteemed and greatly missed Tom MacWood was trying to make the point that Ross designed many different types of bunkers, while his restorations all seemed to look pretty darn similar. Many offered reasons for both points - different contractors doing the original building, etc - but the point was pretty powerful and convincing.


I tried to search for it - and I used to be pretty good at finding old threads - but I couldn't. Maybe another day. It's well worth reading.


-----


As for the original thread, my experiences are pretty pitiful, but if there others comparable to Mountain Ridge, wow, Ross really was special.