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jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #100 on: December 18, 2013, 11:10:20 PM »
Oh yes, we took the cart ;) ;)
How else would we get around with our cooler for five?
and it provides a great place to hang the blazer (only wear it on tight par 4's) ;D

and Mark, the conditioning at Pinecrest was Augustalike compared to Lekarica

« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 11:12:22 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #101 on: December 18, 2013, 11:13:49 PM »
Oh yes, we took the cart ;) ;)
How else would we get around with our cooler for five?
and it provides a great place to hang the blazer (only wear it on tight par 4's) ;D

and Mark, the conditioning at Pinecrest was Augustalike compared to Lekarica



Augusta's overrated  ;D

Bring on Lekarica

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #102 on: December 18, 2013, 11:20:49 PM »
Oh yes, we took the cart ;) ;)
How else would we get around with our cooler for five?
and it provides a great place to hang the blazer (only wear it on tight par 4's) ;D

and Mark, the conditioning at Pinecrest was Augustalike compared to Lekarica



Augusta's overrated  ;D

Bring on Lekarica

I have a friend who's a member ;) at Lekarica if you need a sponsor
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Bruce Wellmon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #103 on: December 18, 2013, 11:25:09 PM »
I did see a jacket just like this last weekend.  ;D
 

Bill Seitz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #104 on: December 18, 2013, 11:38:22 PM »
Walk around?  Child please.  I'm the president of the Riding Golfer Society.

But, just to be clear, you wear a club logo blazer as often as possible...correct?

Unfortunately sometimes that's all he wears. You don't want to be around him on those days.

Bill Seitz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #105 on: December 18, 2013, 11:42:59 PM »
JC sashaying around in a club blazer


 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


I literally have tears running down my face.  This is just so funny!

I thought the comment about boycotting Seminole for 5 somes was a joke.  I thought it was clever and quite funny.  So I highlighted it and put some smileys up.  BUT IT WASN'T A JOKE!  And from there this thing has spiraled into hilarious land...bizarro land.  And now JC is sashaying around in a club blazer.

Tears are rolling down my face I am laughing so hard.

Best thread on GCA this year.



What's so weird about a personal rule like this is that probably every club "allows" fivesomes under  the right circumstances. My understanding was that Ben Cowan really enjoyed his rounds at Kingsley during the Mashie, but I guess that's because no one told him that the Saturday morning of the event, some of us played in *gasp* a fivesome!  Guess he won't be back.

Robert Mercer Deruntz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #106 on: December 19, 2013, 02:22:16 AM »
Aside from the hilarity on opposition to 5some, this post has helped me reflect up some of the Ross courses I've played. Triggs holes 2,3,4 5, 10, 11 12,13, and 14 are awesome.  Pawtucket has some pretty good holes with a wonderful 18th.  Metacomet is a short but very severe test.  Rhode Island has a bunch of great holes and may be the most under the radar course.  Agawam #2 has one of the coolest greens of all his courses. For some reason, Point Judith gets forgotten even though it has all solid to great holes.  Another Ross that gets forgotten is Longmeadow.  

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #107 on: December 19, 2013, 03:46:21 AM »
Another good thread down the toilet in classic GCA.com fashion.  Why in the world anybody cares if someone won't visit a club for any variety of reasons let alone pen a diatribe over it is about as daft as it gets  ::).

Ciao  
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

BCowan

Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #108 on: December 19, 2013, 05:55:36 AM »
Bill

    Would you say Kingsley or Double Eagle are the same type of club as Seminole?  I didn't think Seminole had only 30-50 people play it a day but i could be wrong...  I have played DE and they allowed 5 somes, it was a long time ago and i have become more traditionalist the older i get.  I presumed Kingsley did allow 5 somes for it was a limited play daily club like DE.  I know this sounds counterdicting, but i feel as though they are different models.  Bill it was honor meeting you at the mashie.  Please lets get back to the Donald!!!!

jim_lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #109 on: December 19, 2013, 08:41:51 AM »
Dunlop:

Great call on Roaring Gap. How could I overlook it?
It is remarkable how many Ross courses make our list of favorites. I doubt any other architect could come close.
"Crusty"  Jim
Freelance Curmudgeon

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #110 on: December 19, 2013, 11:07:41 AM »
After being privately chastized by Barney, I would like to replace Mountain Ridge with French Lick's Hill Course.  Honestly, I fell victim to patronizing Mucci. 

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Stephen Britton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #111 on: December 19, 2013, 11:49:40 AM »
Pinehurst no.2 great course and lots of Ross history around such as the his home on 3 and the Pinecrest Inn.
"The chief object of every golf architect or greenkeeper worth his salt is to imitate the beauties of nature so closely as to make his work indistinguishable from nature itself" Alister MacKenzie...

Ed Homsey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #112 on: December 19, 2013, 12:55:47 PM »
Up to the last page, or so, this has been very interesting, and informative thread.  

Perhaps, as Sean indicates, the thread has gone so deep into the toilet that my comments will seem totally irrelevant, but I shall persist, in case there might be some interest.

To begin, I have played a few Ross courses:  Pine Needles, Mid-Pines (I prefer Mid-Pines), Oak Hill East (would prefer the West), Balsams, Mount Washington, CC of Buffalo (looking forward to going back to see the renovations), Brooklea, Monroe, Irondequoit, CC of Rochester (both pre and post Hanse reno), Mark Twain, Bellevue, and lastly, and my favorite, Teugaga CC.  The question has been raised as to which Ross course has been least altered.  I would guess that Teugaga would fall within that category.  There is a sense of purity to the course.  The routing falls so naturally on a beautifully undulating piece of land, and each green offers contours that provide interest and challenge.  It's a course I could play everyday.

There has been some mention Jekyll Island, and an aerial posted that purports to show the location of the Travis and Ross courses.  Because one of our members resides year-round at Jekyll, and has spent many hours researching the history of Jekyll Island golf, the Travis Society's Jekyll Island file is significantly larger than any other Travis course.  Here's what I have gleaned from our materials:  In 1909-1910, Ross created an 18 hole design approximately in the area of the current Oleander Course.  Though records are not conclusive, it is believed that 9 holes of the Ross plan were built and that the Jekyll Island golf pro, Karl Keffer designed some seaside holes that joined part of the Ross course.  Though Travis had been to Jekyll earlier, it wasn't until 1926 (not 1898 as stated in a previous post) that Walter Travis was commissioned to design the 18 hole Great Dunes course.  There are early aerials and photos that show the entire Travis Great Dunes course, with the oceanside 9 holes as well as the current Great Dunes 9-hole course.  Records indicate that the oceanside 9 was not re-opened after the Jekyll Island Club was closed in 1942.  From all appearances, it would have been one of the great oceanside 9 holes around.

Camden CC was also mentioned in this thread as a Ross course.  Travis should be given credit for the work he did there in 1923.  The Travis routing is essentially still intact, with minor changes made by Ross when he was commissioned to grass and rebuild the greens in the late '30s.


BCowan

Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #113 on: December 19, 2013, 01:54:36 PM »
Ed

    Great info.  Will have to check out Teugaga CC some day... 

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #114 on: December 19, 2013, 02:21:59 PM »
I refuse to play Seminole because they don't allow cutoff shorts.

I also refuse to play Augusta because they overseed and refuse to play Cypress Point because they don't let Jones wear his members only jacket in the main dining room.

I love Pinehurst just like everybody else. But I don't love it all that much more than I love Idle Hour, which flies way under the radar just like their members like it. Thankfully I've never seen a fivesome out there. For classless groupthinkers who want to play in one, try High Point down the road in Nicholasville.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Dan Boerger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #115 on: December 19, 2013, 03:13:13 PM »
Ed, given the many Ross courses you've played, high praise indeed for Teugega. A wonderful course to be sure --  but one, IMO, that would benefit from some tree removal.

One (at least I do) gets a strong sense of terrific pacing at many Ross courses. Very few holes seem forced in any way.
"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

Ed Homsey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #116 on: December 19, 2013, 03:57:59 PM »
Dan--I completely agree that Teugaga would benefit from tree removal.  I do not know if tree removal is included in the master plan they have developed.  I will check that out when I get back there next summer.

Roger Wolfe

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #117 on: December 19, 2013, 06:01:10 PM »
A course with no "fivesomes" means they have a golf professional who takes this route so they don't have to manage the moronic members either 1) in the fivesome playing slow or 2) who see the fivesome from across the course and call the pro shop.  Just like the superintendent who gets away with not allowing golf carts on the fairways...  If either can get away with it (pro or super) then more power to them.  If the club members or owner lets them get away with it... they are to blame.  At my club we don't give a *&% how many are in your group... but if you play one hair slower than you are supposed to we are going to bust you and you need to be prepared to accept the consequences.

The saddest is at a great little club in rural West VA called Preston County CC.  We have been playing 36-54 holes there Wed - Fri the week after Father's Day since 1990.  We will be the only people on the course and a pitiful member will call the pro shop from his back yard.  The marshal comes out and splits us into 2 and 3.  Dumbest thing I have ever experienced.

Chris_Blakely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #118 on: December 19, 2013, 06:16:12 PM »
My Favorite Ross course is The Balsams Resort - Panorama course.  Love the setting, love the views, love the greens, and I love the winding drive up the mountain to the course.

Chris

Richard Hetzel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #119 on: December 20, 2013, 05:55:17 PM »
Up to the last page, or so, this has been very interesting, and informative thread.  

Perhaps, as Sean indicates, the thread has gone so deep into the toilet that my comments will seem totally irrelevant, but I shall persist, in case there might be some interest.

To begin, I have played a few Ross courses:  Pine Needles, Mid-Pines (I prefer Mid-Pines), Oak Hill East (would prefer the West), Balsams, Mount Washington, CC of Buffalo (looking forward to going back to see the renovations), Brooklea, Monroe, Irondequoit, CC of Rochester (both pre and post Hanse reno), Mark Twain, Bellevue, and lastly, and my favorite, Teugaga CC.  The question has been raised as to which Ross course has been least altered.  I would guess that Teugaga would fall within that category.  There is a sense of purity to the course.  The routing falls so naturally on a beautifully undulating piece of land, and each green offers contours that provide interest and challenge.  It's a course I could play everyday.

There has been some mention Jekyll Island, and an aerial posted that purports to show the location of the Travis and Ross courses.  Because one of our members resides year-round at Jekyll, and has spent many hours researching the history of Jekyll Island golf, the Travis Society's Jekyll Island file is significantly larger than any other Travis course.  Here's what I have gleaned from our materials:  In 1909-1910, Ross created an 18 hole design approximately in the area of the current Oleander Course.  Though records are not conclusive, it is believed that 9 holes of the Ross plan were built and that the Jekyll Island golf pro, Karl Keffer designed some seaside holes that joined part of the Ross course.  Though Travis had been to Jekyll earlier, it wasn't until 1926 (not 1898 as stated in a previous post) that Walter Travis was commissioned to design the 18 hole Great Dunes course.  There are early aerials and photos that show the entire Travis Great Dunes course, with the oceanside 9 holes as well as the current Great Dunes 9-hole course.  Records indicate that the oceanside 9 was not re-opened after the Jekyll Island Club was closed in 1942.  From all appearances, it would have been one of the great oceanside 9 holes around.

Camden CC was also mentioned in this thread as a Ross course.  Travis should be given credit for the work he did there in 1923.  The Travis routing is essentially still intact, with minor changes made by Ross when he was commissioned to grass and rebuild the greens in the late '30s.



Ed, I definitely got my dates mixed up. There was a Ross 9 on or near the present Dick Wilson Oleander Course, they advertise that Ross had a course here. It sounds like drainage was an issue (as it still is since the course is pretty much at sea level) and there is a pic of Ross' design on the Tufts Archives website. Too bad they abandoned the course, but it was replaced by the Travis Oceanside 9.

I counted up my Ross Courses played and I hit 27 courses:

Shennecossett GC (CT)
CC of Waterbury (CT)
Brunswick CC (GA)
Elk Rapids GC (MI)
Grosse Ille CC (MI)
Rackham GC (MI)
Rogell GC (MI ) NLE
Warren Valley East (MI)
Warren Valley West (MI)
Asheville Municipal (NC)
Mid Pines GC (NC)
Pineneedles (NC)
Rip Van Winkle CC (NY)
Chillicothe CC (OH)
Granville GC (OH)
Hamilton Elks CC (OH)
Hyde Park CC (OH)
Maketewah CC (OH)
Manakiki CC (OH)
Miami Shores GC (OH)
Miami Valley CC (OH)
Piqua CC (OH)
Portsmouth Elks CC (OH)
Wyandot GC (OH)
Wanango CC (PA)
Camden CC (SC)
Holston Hills CC (TN)

I need to organize by itinerary for getting in 20 courses (90% Ross) between Maine and Florida next June and maybe meet up with some GCA'ers along the way.
Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

Chris Mavros

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #120 on: December 20, 2013, 08:09:50 PM »
I really liked Ravisloe when I played it.  LuLu was also very good, but for me, my favorite Donald Ross is Jeffersonville, a muni just outside Philadelphia.  I like the fact the township restored it once they realized who designed it, still kept green fees reasonable, and continue to improve conditions.  Years ago when I didn't know anything about course architecture, I enjoyed playing the course so much that I finally decided to find out who designed it.  When I found out it was Donald Ross, that he designed hundreds of quality courses, I became more interested in design, played more of his courses, and so on and so forth to the present day.  I play a couple rounds there a season and always come away having an enjoyable round.  

Rob Curtiss

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #121 on: December 20, 2013, 08:48:28 PM »
That is good to know Chris.
I will be in the philly area to play golf and will have to try and check it out.
always good to find a reasonably priced golf courses recommended by someone else.


Chris_Blakely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #122 on: December 21, 2013, 08:27:47 AM »


Ed, I definitely got my dates mixed up. There was a Ross 9 on or near the present Dick Wilson Oleander Course, they advertise that Ross had a course here. It sounds like drainage was an issue (as it still is since the course is pretty much at sea level) and there is a pic of Ross' design on the Tufts Archives website. Too bad they abandoned the course, but it was replaced by the Travis Oceanside 9.

I counted up my Ross Courses played and I hit 27 courses:

Shennecossett GC (CT)
CC of Waterbury (CT)
Brunswick CC (GA)
Elk Rapids GC (MI)
Grosse Ille CC (MI)
Rackham GC (MI)
Rogell GC (MI ) NLE
Warren Valley East (MI)
Warren Valley West (MI)
Asheville Municipal (NC)
Mid Pines GC (NC)
Pineneedles (NC)
Rip Van Winkle CC (NY)
Chillicothe CC (OH)
Granville GC (OH)
Hamilton Elks CC (OH)
Hyde Park CC (OH)
Maketewah CC (OH)
Manakiki CC (OH)
Miami Shores GC (OH)
Miami Valley CC (OH)
Piqua CC (OH)
Portsmouth Elks CC (OH)
Wyandot GC (OH)
Wanango CC (PA)
Camden CC (SC)
Holston Hills CC (TN)

I need to organize by itinerary for getting in 20 courses (90% Ross) between Maine and Florida next June and maybe meet up with some GCA'ers along the way.

[/quote]

Wyandot GC is not a rouse course, it was mistakenly listed in Mr. Klein's book.

Chris

Chris_Blakely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #123 on: December 21, 2013, 08:33:40 AM »
Richard,
 
what 15 courses are on your agenda for next summer...15 in a week from maine to Florida.. you are my kinda golf nut.

Not in any order mind you..

Chautauqua GC
Tekoa CC
Buck Hill Falls
Biddeford Saco CC
Newton Commonwealth
William Devine
George Wright
Brae Burn
Southern Pines CC
Stryker GC (maybe)
Bacon Park
Sanford Municipal
Wilmington GC (if open)
Harlem Valley
Triggs
Winnapaug
Wampanoag (hoping for access!)
Brainerd GC
Sewell's Point
Delray Beach
Hyde Park CC (FL)
Daytona Beach South
Bobby Jones
Fort Myers

I may thin out the list a bit before then. The wife and kids will be with the in-laws at Disney so I have free reign to go and do as I please for 8-10 days….I have others that are not Ross as well I would like to play….





Harlem Valley is not a Ross, but it is a cool 9 holer with an abandoned old state mental institution across the street.

Sewell's Point was determined to be aFlynn.

Chris

Richard Hetzel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Donald Ross- which is your favorite and why?
« Reply #124 on: December 21, 2013, 04:00:51 PM »
Where did I read that Harlem Valley was a Ross? It escapes me! I may play there anyway as it looked inteesting and along my way anyway. Was Sewell's Point an original Flynn and a Ross re-do?

PS: I read it on their website:

http://www.harlemvalleygolfclub.com

It seems like many try and attach Ross to their course for the wow factor.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 04:03:29 PM by Richard Hetzel »
Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)