Questions for Mr. Doak

[Rob Curtiss]

Mr. Doak

I was just wondering a few things. I have not read your books yet ( but plan on it ) so if something I ask has been answered in there I apologize.

But since I consider you to be one of the geniuses in modern golf architecture, I was wondering nowadays are you trying to keep to a certain style or design..Do you look for a certain type of land or piece of property. I have only played your Streamsong course and Pacific Dunes courses , but I am playing your Dismal River courses this summer with the GCAers and hopefully I can find a way onto Ballyneal course since I will be in the general area. The reason i mention all those courses is because they are on big expansive pieces of property..Is that what you look for. Would you try to design one on a smaller piece of property in a city , if offered the chance.

Do you need a certain golf budget ( and I am not talking your fee ) to design a course.

Also , being that you have the mind and imagination for seeing a golf course, do you often play a course and think " I would have done this that way or I bet this course would be better if done this way"

Hopefully I didnt insult you- NOT my intention. Just trying to see how you decide to do a project. I am sure you are flooded with offers right now.

[Tom_Doak]

R:

I'm not sure what was there to be insulted about.

I hope you won't be shocked to learn that our office is certainly NOT flooded with offers to design new courses.  Those are rare opportunities in this era, and we are very grateful when we have the opportunity.

I have always been somewhat picky about which jobs I take on.  I only want to take on a job where I think we have the chance to reach the client's goals, and where we can have fun doing it, and grow a bit in the process.  Those criteria disqualify a surprising number of jobs.  If the client is calling me because they want a top-100 course, but they don't have the right property for it -- or if I think they themselves will get in the way of achieving that goal -- then I'm not going to pursue it.  [Note the phrasing of that last part -- I can work with owners who want to be very involved, but there is a line they shouldn't cross.]  But it doesn't disqualify doing a public course in the city [check out Common Ground in Denver, on your way to Dismal], or a project with a small budget.  In fact, Dismal River is one of the least expensive courses we've done, and I just got home from another -- Barnbougle Dunes.

Regarding your last question, generally, when I'm playing another course I judge it on the basis of what is there, and try not to think about how I would have done it differently.  Sometimes that's more difficult -- the hardest is to go to a place like Erin Hills, where I'd done a much different routing for the same piece of property, so it's almost impossible not to think about what they could have done differently -- but I do try.

One of the hardest questions for me to answer is what are my favorite courses of my own design.  The only answer that counts is when you've played the course enough to get over being its designer and to start to critique it as a player yourself -- and it's hard to get to that point, when every time you come back to play, the owner and the superintendent and the members are asking you to look at details of the design or maintenance.  That's why I went back to Barnbougle last week -- just to play.  And it was great fun.

[BHoover]

Tom,

I'm curious about where you choose to work or have been asked to work. Living in Michigan, it stands to reason that you've done work in your home state. And obviously the chance to work at places such as Bandon, Streamsong, Barnbougle, Cape Kidnappers and perhaps the upcoming Keiser resort in Wisconsin has to be exciting.

Are there places that you haven't done work where you'd at some point want to do so? Have you ever been asked to work in Ohio, whether an original design or a renovation/restoration? I'm not asking you to divulge any specific information, but as an Ohio resident, I'd welcome you to work down here.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom,

I'm curious about where you choose to work or have been asked to work. Living in Michigan, it stands to reason that you've done work in your home state. And obviously the chance to work at places such as Bandon, Streamsong, Barnbougle, Cape Kidnappers and perhaps the upcoming Keiser resort in Wisconsin has to be exciting.

Are there places that you haven't done work where you'd at some point want to do so? Have you ever been asked to work in Ohio, whether an original design or a renovation/restoration? I'm not asking you to divulge any specific information, but as an Ohio resident, I'd welcome you to work down here.

Brian:

We've never had a serious job offer in Ohio, for whatever reason -- probably in part because I don't know too many people there, and also because there are a few resident architects who have the state pretty wired.

I used to have a list on my web site of places where I would love to work.  I was advised against doing this by several friends who pointed out that if a potential client was from somewhere else, that might turn them off [and Ohio was not on the list, so there you go].  However, over the years, I wound up working in many of the places that I did list [Scotland, Montana, Australia, New Zealand, the Great Lakes, etc.] ... so on balance I think it was good to put my goals and dreams out there.

Really, though, it's very site-specific.  Central Florida was not especially somewhere I wanted to work, until I saw the property at Streamsong.

One that I still haven't realized is to work on a true heathland site.  I've got a few years left, though.

[BHoover]

Thanks, Tom. Interesting to hear that you have not yet done a heathland course. Are there any true heathland sites in the US? I'll hold out hope that at some point someone will ask you to do some work down here in Ohio (although we are lacking heathland).

As one of the (probably) few on GCA who has not yet played one of your courses, I look forward to seeing some of your work in 2014. If nothing else, I'm coming back to Michigan to check out a couple of your courses.

Happy holidays.

[Jonathan Mallard]

One that I still haven't realized is to work on a true heathland site.  I've got a few years left, though.

So, doing a course named "Heathland" doesn't count?  

[Carl Rogers]

...
One of the hardest questions for me to answer is what are my favorite courses of my own design.  ...

at the Bay of Dreams, nearly 8 years ago, you told me that the 8th at Pacific Dunes was your favorite hole, still true?

[John Cowden]

...
One of the hardest questions for me to answer is what are my favorite courses of my own design.  ...
at the Bay of Dreams, nearly 8 years ago, you told me that the 8th at Pacific Dunes was your favorite hole, still true?


What a wonderful golf hole, and what an exciting, challenging green.   I've delighted in every par and double I've shot there.  

[Scott Weersing]

I would concur that the 8th hole at Pacific Dunes is often overlooked because of the other holes (ie, 4, 10, 11, 13) but I love how you can play an approach short and bounce it onto the green, or go long and use the backstop, and have the ball roll back down on to the green.

Question- Which course did wish was still in play or completed? Bay of Dreams, Wicked Pony, Beechtree.

[Tom Allen]

Brian--As you know, I (like you), live in Ohio.  Sadly (and shockingly), I too have not played a Doak course, but man is that high on my list of things to do.  A trip to Bandon or Streamsong seems in order!

[Tom_Doak]

Question- Which course did wish was still in play or completed? Bay of Dreams, Wicked Pony, Beechtree.

Of the courses you listed, I wish we'd gotten to finish Wicked Pony and see how it played.  It was intended to be pretty difficult, but that was also a cool piece of property.

However, the course I miss most is High Pointe.

[BHoover]

Brian--As you know, I (like you), live in Ohio.  Sadly (and shockingly), I too have not played a Doak course, but man is that high on my list of things to do.  A trip to Bandon or Streamsong seems in order!

Tom, I'm anxious to play Bandon and Streamsong. Until that happens, we need someone to commission Mr. Doak to build something here in our fair state.

[Joe McCormac]

Tom-
One step further from the heathland site, I've always found the Mississippi River basin to be devoid of great golf courses.  Years of sediment producing clay-rich soil, is it impossible to do much more than what's been done?  

[Tom_Doak]

Tom-
One step further from the heathland site, I've always found the Mississippi River basin to be devoid of great golf courses.  Years of sediment producing clay-rich soil, is it impossible to do much more than what's been done?  

It is much more difficult to build a great course on clay than it is on sand, but it's not impossible.  There's no reason the Mississippi River Basin shouldn't have a course as good as Augusta National or Oakmont or Rock Creek (which are all built on heavy soils).

Even then, as Mike Young periodically reminds us, because the grass palette in the deep South is more limited, it is harder to build a sexy course in that region of the country.

[Rob Curtiss]

Tom,

I know you have reviewed and ranked many courses.Are there any you have not seen in person , that you are dying to see?
Either for design purposes or just to play.

Do you have a bucket list course? Ha ha

[Tom_Doak]

Tom,

I know you have reviewed and ranked many courses.Are there any you have not seen in person , that you are dying to see?
Either for design purposes or just to play.

Do you have a bucket list course? Ha ha

When I first published The Confidential Guide, I had a list of the top 50 courses I wanted to see.  I've seen 25 of those by now, but still haven't seen the top course on that list -- Banff Springs -- or its neighbor, Jasper Park.  They are probably my top two now.  I had to cancel a trip there a couple of years ago, but I will get there in 2014 or 2015 ... and then I don't know what I'll have to look forward to.

[Sven Nilsen]

Tom:

You once wrote that you were going to try to build an opening hole at Wicked Pony similar to the 1st at Garden City.  Did you ever get the chance to build that hole anywhere else?

Sven

[Tom_Doak]

Tom:

You once wrote that you were going to try to build an opening hole at Wicked Pony similar to the 1st at Garden City.  Did you ever get the chance to build that hole anywhere else?

Sven

Sven:

I had completely forgotten about that hole until I saw it mentioned on the "first holes" thread recently.  I try and forget my losses pretty quickly.

I have not built another hole that I would compare, to date.  There's still time.  And there are still a lot of other holes I'd like to find a spot for, somewhere, someday.  [But I don't have a list of them handy, so hopefully no one will make that their next question.]

[Scott Warren]

R:

I'm not sure what was there to be insulted about.

One can never be too cautious when asking you a benign question about your work!