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Rob Curtiss

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2013, 11:38:47 AM »
hope to play Pine Valley some day.


Kudos Jim to still playing to a 13 handicap at 71.

Hope I can still play that good at 71...shit, I hope I can still play period!!!!!!

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2013, 11:39:45 AM »
I don't necessarily like courses that bogey you to death.  There are famous difficult courses out there that I've played (when I was playing well), and shot 81 with 11 bogeys and 7 pars.  I don't want a daily dose of that, where you make a little mistake, and you're just fighting to get back in position to make an easy bogey.

I want drama; otherwise, I'm going to change the channel.

Jordan Standefer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2013, 12:05:12 PM »
I'd have to second Pinehurst #2 (of the courses I've played).  If I was spraying the ball all over, at least I'd have the opportunity to chip out and try and get up and down.  If I was hitting it well (hitting lots of fairways and, more importantly, hitting and holding the greens), I feel like I could be rewarded with a decent score.

If I'm not hitting it well at a place like The Ocean Course at Kiawah or PGA West Stadium, forget it.  It's just not fun dropping three next to a hazard every other hole.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2013, 02:46:03 AM »
Shinnecock is the hardest course that I could play day in and day out.

Not many courses can present a stern test to the best golfers in the world, yet be enjoyable to the broad spectrum of golfers on a daily basis.

WFW, BPB are too difficult on a daily basis

Possible candidates:     Riviera, LACC  North, PBGC on the west coast.

ANGC, Pine Tree, Boca Rio, Seminole  in the South

MRCC, GCGC in the NYC  area

Yale ?

Greg Gilson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2013, 04:49:05 AM »
Oakmont, Old Course at The National (Australia), Golf National (Paris)

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2013, 04:57:52 AM »
I'd happily play Muirfield every day.  I think I'd be happy playing Carnoustie every day but am less familiar with the course.

I have played Wolf Run, which is mentioned above.  Whilst I really did enjoy playing it a lot and would go back in a flash, I suspect it would be too much every day.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2013, 06:20:40 AM »
PM,

I have to bail out a tad and qualify, because the feature of "wind" doesn't appear in any measure on some challenging courses:

If there's a 20+ mph wind?

Fishers' - Of my seven playings, I have caught a BIG wind three times; and then it becomes the hardest course in the world.  Exhilarating, but the medal expectations are changed while the match play amusement ramps considerably.

If there's little or no wind?

Winged Foot West.  I have almost zero objectivity in this case, because I see it weekly in season. As is well-repeated here by many, played from a sensible tee and tallying #9 and #16 as short three-shotters, it is an enjoyable and stimulating course in both medal and match matters. Under such conditions, driving becomes strategic; recovery really means something to still holding "par" on a hole; and each hole presentation offers a visible solution.  I'll add that one can (and WF members/guests demonstrate this annually) play it "every day;" (even on dry winter days) it's got to be the gentlest walk of the revered inland courses, perhaps only the Pinehurst greats can match up.

Other:
If this was some official expert's report and not just a board question, I'd have to say that many stimulating courses in the south and southwest would be disqualified for me because of the heat and/or humidity that make up the preponderance of their days. No matter how good or difficult they are, I think playing dozens of rounds in such conditions, (somewhat--but not precisely--like a constantly heavy wind) would sour me.  I realize its true for many northern climates, but for the purposes of my own answer to Pat's question, the WF courses - experiencing the four seasons as they do -- evolve over the course of the year. A muddy March day , a first warm April round, a blooming May afternoon, a difficult grass grown June tournament, a July scorcher, a pre-heat August morning, a clear mild September Saturday, a crisp leave strewn October match, a stolen November Indian-Summer stroll. I've played and caddied in driving rains and cold winds and had brandy-soaked experiences in February.  It's the kind of course, the kind of place and the kind of locale where playing 150-200 rounds a year seems appetizing and not a bore (though I myself will never join a club at all or play that much golf in any one year with all the trillions of the world).

Pschizo Other Bonus:
In my current state, I think to play Sawgrass every day would drive me from the game within a season.  However, if I were a practiced, tournament player and/or "scratch" or better handicap, I imagine it would be kind of fun.  For me at least, I'm just not up to it.  too many "8s" and double-bogeys there for the player who does not KNOW where it's going on every full shot.

cheers

vk
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2013, 08:24:37 AM »
Carnoustie and Olympia Fields North come pretty close, but I'd probably have to go with Skokie Country Club.  Ross, Langford and Prichard, yet it made for a solid test for the Western Am a mere couple years ago.  Pinehurst #2 would also be close, but I think if I played those greens every day that I'd be forced to give up my beloved craft beer for straight scotch...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2013, 09:06:19 AM »
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Steve Kline

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2013, 09:11:32 AM »
Pinehurst #2

It's very difficult for me to shoot my handicap but I could probably play the same ball for the rest of my life (assuming the ball would be durable enough).

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2013, 12:18:01 PM »
Didn't Bobby Jones say something along the lines of wanting to play TOC forever? Harry Vardon is supposed to have said something similar about Saunton and I belive Big Jack said he'd like his last game to be at Pebble Beach.
ATB

Patrick_Mucci

Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2013, 12:39:24 PM »
VK,

WFW, day in and day out is really hard labor.

I love golf and I love WFW, but, every day, to the exclusion of all others ?

I'd have to go with Shinnecock, with the wind being the icing on the cake.

Michael Felton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2013, 01:40:22 PM »
VK,

WFW, day in and day out is really hard labor.

I love golf and I love WFW, but, every day, to the exclusion of all others ?

I'd have to go with Shinnecock, with the wind being the icing on the cake.

There is a lot to be said for picking a windy course if you're only going to be able to play one course the rest of your life. The wind makes it play differently all the time. I've not had the fortune of playing Shinnecock, but it seems like a pretty good choice (not to mention it meets your "most difficult" criterion pretty well).

Patrick_Mucci

Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #38 on: December 19, 2013, 09:10:11 AM »
Michael,

It also has  WIDTH, which I think is a key ingredient to enjoyment by ALL levels of golfers.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #39 on: December 19, 2013, 10:41:33 AM »

I'd have to go with Shinnecock, with the wind being the icing on the cake.



Didn't see that one coming...

I've played Shinnecock a fair amount and love it...and would possibly pick it for this question. I've never played NGLA and would have thought, based on your discussion of it over the years this would have been your pick with Seminole close behind.

Can you elaborate on your selection of Shinnecock over NGLA and Seminole?

EDIT: Scratch that question Pat...obviously SHCC is more difficult than the other two...
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 01:11:55 PM by Jim Sullivan »

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #40 on: December 19, 2013, 01:03:11 PM »
For me, I think it would be Shinnecock.  So good!  Perfect, perhaps.


I would actually like to try to play Seminole every day and see what happens to my opinion of the course.  It is obviously an architectural masterpiece, but it was so DAMN hard for me and my game both times I tee'd it up there.  I wonder if I'd figure out how to manage my way around it...or if it would beat me into submission and I'd quit the game.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Don_Mahaffey

Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #41 on: December 19, 2013, 02:00:30 PM »
What makes the question interesting to me is we built Wolf Point to meet our clients expectation of a difficult course that he could play every day. He wanted it difficult, but didn't want it unplayable in the frequent winds and didn't want to be hunting for balls all the time.
So the difficulty comes in the uneven stances, center hazards, greens slopes and contours, and figuring the line of attack each day.

This is a difficult course that the owner plays most every day at the exclusion of all others, and he will play it most every day for the rest of his golfing days.  

While it is not difficult to avoid shooting a high score at WP, it is very resistant to shooting a low score.

Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #42 on: December 19, 2013, 02:08:59 PM »
Probably TOC. Wouldn't want to play anything harder than that every day.
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

jim_lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #43 on: December 19, 2013, 03:26:50 PM »
RCurtiss:

Thanks for your comment, but I am afraid I misled you. The computer says I am a 13, but I sure don't seem to play to it!

Jim
"Crusty"  Jim
Freelance Curmudgeon

Patrick_Mucci

Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2013, 03:36:32 PM »
Jim,

As much as I love Seminole, I think that Shinnecock is a sterner test.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #45 on: December 19, 2013, 03:42:39 PM »
Agreed...was thinking of a slightly different question when I first responded.

Dave Greene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #46 on: December 19, 2013, 04:39:03 PM »
Shinnecock

Dan Kelly

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Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #47 on: December 19, 2013, 05:28:02 PM »
I wouldn't play any course, particularly a difficult one (aren't they all?), to the exclusion of all others.

Of the particularly difficult courses I've played (no Shinnecock, no Oakmont, no Ocean Course, no Pine Valley), I'd be happy to play Hazeltine often.

Is Sand Hills particularly difficult? It seemed to me, on my one visit, because I didn't have a driver I could keep in play, and we played a lot of back tees. (LOTS of 1-irons that weekend.) But if it qualifies as particularly difficult, I'll take Sand Hills ... and would be tempted to exclude all others.

"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #48 on: December 19, 2013, 05:35:32 PM »
Olympic Club Lake and Spyglass because of the tree lined fairways. Industry Hills Ike because of the sand traps and greens.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Gib_Papazian

Re: What's the most difficult
« Reply #49 on: December 20, 2013, 12:42:14 AM »
This is a fairly elastic question because the idea of "difficult" is open to quite a bit of interpretation. If pressed, I'm going to cross out my home track at Olympic Lake because (assuming the reader does not defy the laws of age or gravity past age 70 like Mucci) the deep culvert running through several of the holes demands a lot of air under the ball off the tee.

Let's also put NGLA aside because, like Ella Fitzgerald, it occupies its own category. Shinnecock Hills is too damned hard in the breeze to be enjoyable for an aging mid-handicapper. A steady diet of Winged Foot West would be like pretending to enjoy getting donkey-punched 18 times in a row - followed by a 4-putt and then paying monthly dues for the privilege.

Garden City is - of course - ideal, as is Merion because there are enough shortish par-4s to mix things up a bit. Actually, I'll modify the question a bit and ask "which club" instead of individual course. Merion West is absolutely delightful and a perfect counterpoint to big brother down the street, so my guess would be older players might tend to migrate to the West as they age.

On the same topic, Winged Foot East is a wonderful choice both for the original question and best club. I'm going to the disqualify my home track despite my belief our Ocean Course - though a terribly lost opportunity - is still a terrific test for all levels. WF East is actually a perfect compromise. It is "difficult," but far more visually appealing than the West. It presents approach shots that are "difficult," but not punishing.

The idea of having my testicles ripped off and stuffed in my ears at Oakmont in retirement is a form of Calvinist self-flagellation; the same goes for Carnoustie. I often wonder what happens to guys who join Butler National once they join the Viagra set. Bleeding out every orifice is not a form of enjoyment - at least to me.

The real answer is to ascertain which "difficult" course presents roughly the same challenge for all skill levels as long as the correct tees are selected. WF East and GCity are the leaders in the clubhouse. Maidstone or Mid Ocean are probably not difficult enough . . . . . . but I could play either every day and never look back.          
« Last Edit: December 20, 2013, 12:44:02 AM by Gib Papazian »

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