Desert Forest opens tomorrow after renovation

[Dave Givnish]

Desert Forest will open for member play on December 14 after a 7-month renovation directed by David Zinkand. I'll post photos of hole by hole after play over the weekend.

The routing of the course remains the same. Two greens (14 and 16) were moved. A number of tees were added to expand the options for all skill levels. A large number of non-native trees were removed. Every green was rebuilt and the bunker complexes were rebuilt to marry up to the greens. I'll try to describe the green slopes after play. They were supposed to kept roughly the same. Some of the more severe front slopes were softened and a number of false fronts have been extended. The practice tee and practice green were significantly expanded.

The old bunkers were generally oval and pretty simple - very 1962. Over time, they also had developed issues from maintenance. The worst were pretty severe downslopes on the back sides that made access difficult. The new look is much more dramatic. A few bunkers that were added in the 70's were removed. Several new bunkers are much bigger in scale and a number are married to the desert on the side away from the green.

The 14th hole was shortened by about 40 yards to make it a drivable par 4. A total of about 200 yards were added to the back tees.

The roughs were all replanted with 328 Bermuda and the greens were planted with A4.

DF will be dormant to allow the Bermuda to grow in for a full year before overseeding. I love how the course plays with the dormant surface, so it should be a fun winter.

[Jud_T]

Dave,

Just to clarify, were the greens restored or renovated?

[Garland Bayley]

Does

http://www.desertforestgolfclub.com/Golf

have pictures before or after the reno? The link is given after the discussion of the reno.

[Terry Lavin]

Verrrry exciting.

[Brian Stewart]

Does

http://www.desertforestgolfclub.com/Golf

have pictures before or after the reno? The link is given after the discussion of the reno.

Before. 

I'll see you out there tomorrow Dave.  It looks like your tee time is slightly better than mine as we don't go off until 12:16.  Should be a great day though, good temps and a nice, stiff breeze

[Rob Rigg]

Dave,

Congrats to the membership at DF and Zinkand and his team on the reno/resto.

Can't wait to see the pics!

The best walk in Scottsdale just got better - it's an exciting time for the club.

Enjoy!!!

[Mike Sweeney]

Dave,

Your GM Roger Bacon is a great guy. He was my "sponsor"   at Kabul Golf Club. Please wish him well as he has done many great things for the people of Afghanistan. I hope to actually meet him some day and obviously Desert Forest would be a great place to meet him.

Enjoy.

[Dan Moore]

Dave and I have talked about doing an in depth article for GCA about the renovation.  Hopefully we can get to that at some point in the next 2-3 months.  Dave has been taking some excellent photos throughout the construction and we'll also get some before and after with photos I have taken over the last 3-4 years there.  From Dave Zinkand's Master Plan to the photos I have seen I'd hazard an opinion that this is more a sympathetic renovation rather than a true restoration.  Renovation in the sense that some major surgery was done on the 14th hole by moving the green 40 yards to create a driveable par 4 and since bunkering appears to have a more dramatic flair than what likely was originally there. Of course I don't want to weigh in any more than that until I get a week or so of play in there later this winter.   And man don't I wish I was there today instead of snowy Chicago!!!  Dave I'm jealous and look forward to your report. 

[Jeff_Mingay]

Dave Z.'s a buddy of mine. We played Desert Forest together back in March.

Dave had a guy called Jeff Bradley out there, with him, digging bunkers, too, I think Carefree, AZ is a beautiful place; Desert Forest is a really cool club, with a neat history and unique desert location. The course was in need of a re-fresh, though. I really look forward to seeing this work, knowing it's really good because Dave was in-charge and Bradley was there.  

[Carl Nichols]

One of my top contenders for a warm-climate club, if it ever made sense.  Great place.

[Dan Moore]

Dave sent me some photos from Desert Forest taken yesterday during opening day play.  I have added some of my before photos.  
As you can the bunkering has quite a bit more flair.  

1 Before

1 After


3 before


3 After


On paper one of the more intriguing changes proposed was on the bunkering of the 6th green.  Dave Zinkand proposed expanding the green on the right to open up an approach from that side that could take advantage of contours to the right of the green.  He then proposed moving the right bunker more to the middle.  Looks like they tucked the flag up on the new right hand portion for opening day play yesterday

6 Before

6 After


7 Before

7 After


9 After

[Jud_T]

Dan,

Thanks for posting.  Looks fantastic.  I'd be very interested in hearing/seeing more about what was changed with regard to green contours and slopes.

[Jeff_Stettner]

I'll be the surly, salty one. These pictures are a huge turnoff.

I have only played Desert Forest once and it was a few years ago. I absolutely loved the golf course. Part of the appeal, aside from the brilliant routing and seamless transitions to native surrounds, was the retro bunker look. Yes they were simple in aesthetic, but they were certainly not simple in playability and strategic direction. Maintenance issues aside, I struggle with the idea of the new look playing to the current homogenized jagged edges that seem to garner unabashed love. This looks like a lot more courses now than it did three years ago. And I don't think that's necessarily a good thing. Will these bunkers look dated in 25 years? How long until they have a restoration to bring back the ovals?  

[Mac Plumart]

How long until they have a restoration to bring back the ovals?  

Jeff,

I'd bet...a very long time!


Dave...the course looks great.  I can't wait to get out that way.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

It's great to see desert fairways that are NOT overseeded. Can't wait.

[Wayne_Freedman]

Only my favorite golf course on the planet.

It is  a perfect exercise in testing minimalism.

[Adam Clayman]

Jeff Stetner, The oval bunkers did accentuate the natural surrounds with their juxtaposition.

[Dave Givnish]

As you might expect, the course was packed over the weekend. Here are my impressions so far.

Yes, it is a renovation, and yes, traditionalists are not going to like the bunker changes. I concur with Mac. It will be quite a while before we go back to ovals. In fairness, the old bunkers were not completely original. They were much deeper than the originals, particularly on the 3rd green. Zinkand removed the bunker left of the 2nd green that was added in the 70's. You can now see the entire green from bunkers where you couldn't before.

He married several bunkers to the native desert surrounding the hole. You can see that on the picture of the 7th green. The right bunker comprises what used to be 2 bunkers on the right, and the sand extends to the desert. All that desert is in the process of being revegetated. That planting process will take most of the winter (15,000+ plants) so the look is a bit starker now than it will end up.

The greens were much better than I thought they would be at this stage. Seed went down Labor Day weekend and we had a warm fall. The greens accepted shots quite well and putted true. It will take us a year or two for the new greens to settle out, but so far, this is a big improvement over some of the other local courses who did their greens a few years ago. I hope that Estancia has the same success when they redo their greens next summer.

Subtle breaks were the hallmark of the old greens. They are different now, but Zinkand was able to keep that excitement. Our format yesterday was a scramble with 8 members, and a number of the putts required all 8 of us to have a go. Feel free to make cheap jokes...

I may be in the minority, but I also love the dormant grass. The club is starting an agronomy research program, and as a result, we may see dormant grass more often.

So far, so good on the new tee boxes as well. The new back tee is now over 7,200 yards even though three holes (3, 14, 17) were shortened by close to a total of 100 yards. Tees were added in several spots to improve the options for the 6,150 to 6,350 tees.

Over 100 trees were removed. Most that were removed were non-native Chilean mesquites that bordered the grass surfaces. They had been added over time. You can see a lot more now including a number of specimen saguaros that had been hidden. The sight lines to the surrounding mountains is much improved as well. The tree removal was a restoration as there were not a lot of trees surrounding the course originally.

[Tom Yost]

Dave - thanks for the update.  Will be looking forward to further discussions and photos about the renovation and the changes to 14 and 16.  

The new look bunkering is very dramatic but I guess I have mixed feelings as I very much liked the old style.  But for sure, from the few photos, it appears to successfully achieve a more organic look that allows the course to better blend with the surrounding native terrain.  

[Dan Moore]

Dan,

Thanks for posting.  Looks fantastic.  I'd be very interested in hearing/seeing more about what was changed with regard to green contours and slopes.

Jud,  I'm very interested in that question as well.  There were significant drainage problems with some of the greens pre-reno and significant poa on the bent greens. Carefree is a difficult micro climate with cooler nights than the valley. When they did tests prior to making any decisons about how to manage the greens going forward they found very inconsistent soil profiles in the 50+ year old push up greens.  The committee eventually settled on going with brand new USGA greens necessitating a rebuild of all 18 greens.  Initial reports from the club indicated the greens were softened in some areas where we had 6% slopes in order to bring back some pinnable areas with a goal of maintaining 3% slopes on average and speeds of 11.5. There was green expansion and recovery as well. To me the greens had very subtle slopes that really came alive at modern speeds and the shaping around the greens was pretty magnificent even if over time the bunkers had disconnected in spots.  This will be a new look but I think in time when everything has a chance to marry with the native areas the new look will be an overall improvement.  Obviously the proof will be in the playing so David can weigh some more on that after he plays again today.  :-)

[Brian Stewart]

Unfortunately I only got to play 9 holes on Saturday as it was basically a record day for slow play with every member there.  I will get a real look this Saturday but my initial impressions were very good.  Hole 6 went from being the only hole on the course that I didn't really care for to a truly fun hole with the new green and center bunker.  The opening day pin position was excellent and the new green has a ton of character along with feeling like it fits.  

One of the underrated portions is how the new bunkering is impacts some shots.  Hole 9 is an excellent example. I hit a good drive leaving 202 yards to the flag (playing the blue tees, it is a short par 5 at 494 yards).  The area I ended up in is in the middle of the FW but at an extreme low point on the rolling FW where you can barely see the top of the flag.  I ended up hitting a 4 iron on but it will be a more intimidating shot from now on.  I was thinking of the old green that had plenty of room to run the ball onto when you approached from the left.  After getting up to the green I realized that I was very lucky because the front bunkers really pinch the entry much tighter than they used to.  If I had missed it even a little bit I would have been in the bunker.  The next time I have that shot the image of that will be in my mind and will make the shot more difficult.  I actually think it is an excellent change as the hole was commonly a par 4 (short par 4 some days) on downwind days, not even a 4.5.  Now I think it is a real par 4.5/5 and forces you to think about the shot you hit into the green vs laying up.  

I can't wait to see the back 9 and try the 14th.  

As Dave said, the greens were in excellent shape considering  they are brand new.  I couldn't believe how well they were holding and, while they were slow, they weren't nearly as slow as I've commonly seen new greens in the area.  I would also be fine with more years of dormant grass and hopefully that trend will take hold.  I don't really have any negatives to report at this time other than the slow play which will go away quickly as people get used to the course and the pent up desire to play every week wanes.  

[ward peyronnin]

Is 16 the par five? Geesh I like everything about that par five

[Dan Moore]

Dave provided some more after shots so here is another round of Desert Forest before and after shots. 

Hole #1 

Before


After


Example of bunker tie in to desert. 




Hole #2.  This really provides a good look at the ground contours that make Desert Forest so unique and the effects of tree removal.  The after shot shows the bunker left was removed .  It had been added in the 70’s

Before


After


Before


After



Hole #12
Before



After


Hole #13

Before Again Noting the Effects of Tree Removal




After


Before




Hole  #15
Before




After


Hole #17

Before


After

[Norbert P]

  Solid !

  Especially like #6.  Was the green expanded right, as well?  From photo it looks like a nice kickboard over there with narrowed bunker. Is this so?

[Dave Givnish]

Yes - the 6th green was expanded about 3' to 4' right of the former edge. There is a kick board on the right edge as you come in from the fairway. There is also rumors that a small Volkswagen was buried in the center of the green.