[Chris_Hufnagel]

This is neither here nor there, but I played Pinehurst #2 in November.  I walked with a caddy and the three people I played with (I was paired with them as I was at the resort as a single golfer) all took carts.  Many of you know that Pinehurst #2 has a strong "Cart Path Only" rule which I believe is enforced year-round - probably for good reason.  It is safe to say that this rule "upset the flow" of the round.  My playing partners were constantly jumping in and out of carts, grabbing clubs, going back for a different club, etc.  I don't remember another round where I spent more time waiting - it wasn't the worst place to have a slow round and it provided me time to check-out the restoration work and take photos, but it was certainly slow.  While I doubt many guest rounds at Pinehurst are ever fast, this round was easily much longer than it needed to be.  I would be interested to know how many more steps I took over the course of the round versus that of my playing companions.  Around #14 I was commiserating with one of the golfers about the CPO rule and their situation and he said they all wished they had walked with caddies instead of choosing the cart option...

[Jason Thurman]

I use trolleys myself once in a while. Thinking they're an eyesore doesn't preclude me from accepting their other benefits. I'm wearing ugly shoes today. They're an eyesore, but I accept that they were the right choice for getting through the airport quickly while still looking like a professional.

I like to think one of my strengths is the ability to see both sides of an issue regardless of the side I take. I didn't realize how unique an attribute that was before the Internet exploded in popularity. Trolleys are useful. They are also ugly. Carts are useful. They are also ugly. I doubt I would be soured on a whole continent just because I can find 30 or 40 ugly things on a golf course. I might even use a trolley myself. It wouldn't be the first time that I used something ugly for purely utilitarian purposes, though it would be one of the more virtuous occasions.

[BCowan]

I was in Pinehurst/Durham in November as well.  I got my GF's father to walk when we played Pine Needles, and he is a little heavy and did just fine.  We played Duke U course (due to time constraints) and it was cart path only, he road and wished he had walked due to back and forth.  I walked and watched them probably take more steps than myself.  Cart path only is unbearable, but playing #2 would defiantly make up for it.  As i haven't played #2 since 98'.  It is amazing how much better Pine Needles drains over Mid Pines and they across the street from one another.  Duke's carts don't let you go off the cart path, they make you go in reverse and get back on, they have some computerized system that is pretty advanced.    

[Jason Thurman]

This is neither here nor there, but I played Pinehurst #2 in November.  I walked with a caddy and the three people I played with (I was paired with them as I was at the resort as a single golfer) all took carts.  Many of you know that Pinehurst #2 has a strong "Cart Path Only" rule which I believe is enforced year-round - probably for good reason.  It is safe to say that this rule "upset the flow" of the round.  My playing partners were constantly jumping in and out of carts, grabbing clubs, going back for a different club, etc.  I don't remember another round where I spent more time waiting - it wasn't the worst place to have a slow round and it provided me time to check-out the restoration work and take photos, but it was certainly slow.  While I doubt many guest rounds at Pinehurst are ever fast, this round was easily much longer than it needed to be.  I would be interested to know how many more steps I took over the course of the round versus that of my playing companions.  Around #14 I was commiserating with one of the golfers about the CPO rule and their situation and he said they all wished they had walked with caddies instead of choosing the cart option...

Truth. I might have implied earlier that it's the outlier in the group who's always the rude one. That's definitely not the case at No. 2, or Pebble Beach, or any other course where extenuating circumstances involved in either walking or riding makes one the clearly more practical choice. Of course, the guys in the carts weren't really being rude either. They just made a misinformed decision.

FYI, I've worn a pedometer for almost every round I've played this year. The huge majority were walking rounds, and I almost always walked between 6 and 8 miles. Two were cart path only, and I walked about 5 in those rounds while being consciously efficient with my number of steps.

[BCowan]

Chris

    I assume the people you were paired with were guests too?  If you are going to drop the money to play #2, why wouldn't somebody take a caddy?  When i played there it was last minute, 110 degrees and my 2nd round and hoofed it, don't think any caddies were around.  My car broke down getting to #2 and is another story in itself...  Maybe some people are uncomfortable taking a caddy these days.  

[John Kavanaugh]

Chris

    I assume the people you were paired with were guests too?  If you are going to drop the money to play #2, why wouldn't somebody take a caddy?  When i played there it was last minute, 110 degrees and my 2nd round and hoofed it, don't think any caddies were around.  My car broke down getting to #2 and is another story in itself...  Maybe some people are uncomfortable taking a caddy these days.  

Nice to see you make the discovery yourself.  Carts are the least elitist method of playing the game. It is actually somewhat humiliating.

[BHoover]

By the same logic that it's rude to walk while others are riding (or vice cersa), then it's also rude for members of the same group to play different sets of tees.

[Jason Thurman]

Brian, I don't see that. I don't know how you miss out on any of the social elements of golf by playing from different tees. The guys I play with don't do a lot of socializing while standing over their tee ball. We socialize while we walk or drive.

As for flow, as long as the guys playing furthest back tee off first I don't ever feel a disruption to the pacing of the round either.

[John Kavanaugh]

By the same logic that it's rude to walk while others are riding (or vice cersa), then it's also rude for members of the same group to play different sets of tees.

It is rude to move back, it is a courtesy to move forward.

[BHoover]

Brian, I don't see that. I don't know how you miss out on any of the social elements of golf by playing from different tees. The guys I play with don't do a lot of socializing while standing over their tee ball. We socialize while we walk or drive.

As for flow, as long as the guys playing furthest back tee off first I don't ever feel a disruption to the pacing of the round either.

I don't see it either.  But I don't think it's rude to be the outlier, either.

[Chris_Hufnagel]

Carts are the least elitist method of playing the game.

John, I am curious to know why you don't consider walking and carrying "the least elitist method of playing the game"?

[Brent Hutto]

Chris,

In our current culture, choosing to walk and [fill in blank] is a behavior overwhelmingly engaged in by high-education, high-SES "elites". I am no social psychologist and will not venture a guess as to why it works out that way. But by simple observation I can see that, if we discuss only those with enough means to have a choice between walking and riding in any given activity it definitely follows a pattern in which walking by choice (or running for exercise for that matter) is more likely the higher you are up the socioeconomic scale.

[Chris_Hufnagel]

Chris,

In our current culture, choosing to walk and [fill in blank] is a behavior overwhelmingly engaged in by high-education, high-SES "elites". I am no social psychologist and will not venture a guess as to why it works out that way. But by simple observation I can see that, if we discuss only those with enough means to have a choice between walking and riding in any given activity it definitely follows a pattern in which walking by choice (or running for exercise for that matter) is more likely the higher you are up the socioeconomic scale.

Brent, that is interesting - thanks for sharing.  Would you say that is a global cultural phenomenon or U.S.-centric?

[John Kavanaugh]

Carts are the least elitist method of playing the game.

John, I am curious to know why you don't consider walking and carrying "the least elitist method of playing the game"?

Look at any cartoon that depicts the modern golfing buffoon. He will be in a cart, riding on two wheels, gut exposed as he guzzles beer. The double strapped bag has created a forced upright posture that requires a pomposity of stride associated with any well known elitist stereotype. There is really no debate.

Carts also require you to share and God forbid touch your playing partner. Sharing and touching, rather common don't you think?

[Frank Giordano]

According to locals here, it is a little known fact that the golf cart was originally invented at the old Houston Country Club (now Gus Wortham Golf Course).  Wortham is the oldest 18 hole course in Texas and is now run by the City of Houston as a municipal facility.  

Some of the locals at the River Oaks Country Club in Houston informed me (when I was composing their club's history) that a member there, Dick Jackson, invented the first golf car, a motorized adaptation of a young member's Cushman motor scooter.  Since he suffered from arthritis, the auto dealer asked young Preston Moore where he bought his scooter.  Preston told him and Jackson went to Watson Cushman, bought a scooter, and brought it to his auto shop, where he had it built into the original "Arthritis Special."  All four players would ride on a bench in front, while the clubs were laid on a rack behind them.  When the first commercial golf carts came on the market years later, they all had Cushman motors.  The whole golf car industry sprung from Jackson's imaginative readaptation of a young boy's motor scooter.

[Matt Vandelac]

I miss Melvyn!
Walking is integral to golf.  The cart has: added to the expense of the game, added to maintainance and cart path construction costs no-one cares to put a # to, and starved a couple generations (so far) from the opportunity to get golf in their souls.  It has created a huge group of fair weather users that consider it part of the equipment and where the 12 pack goes.  
Operators that discover the value in walking, IMHO, will be rewarded for not going with the flow...thankfully something our predecessors found the courage to do to move our world foreward.
Speaking of skating, most skaters have a hard time turning to the right because everyone always likes to skate counterclockwise in open skating and training drills - because that's how they've always done it.

[Brent Hutto]

Chris,

In our current culture, choosing to walk and [fill in blank] is a behavior overwhelmingly engaged in by high-education, high-SES "elites". I am no social psychologist and will not venture a guess as to why it works out that way. But by simple observation I can see that, if we discuss only those with enough means to have a choice between walking and riding in any given activity it definitely follows a pattern in which walking by choice (or running for exercise for that matter) is more likely the higher you are up the socioeconomic scale.

Brent, that is interesting - thanks for sharing.  Would you say that is a global cultural phenomenon or U.S.-centric?

Goodness, I'd hesitate to even guess. Probably moreso in USA than other countries. I know the number of people engaging by choice in walking/running type activity is much higher overall in Australia than USA. But that's just because I happen to have read some research which mentions that. Not sure at all what goes on in other cultures, more generally speaking.

[Gary Slatter]

Calgary is loaded with healthy people, they use a lot of golf carts too!
Would Palm Springs have 100s of courses without golf carts?
Would Arizona have many golf courses?
How would people get around on Green Turtle Cay without golf carts?

It's nice to walk courses if you can, as it's nice to ride too!  Please don't blame the Pros who had the concessions and made money from renting golf carts, at least they made money providing a service.

Carts are part of the game now.  Courses should be designed to accommodate carts so they are not restricted to paths, they can be!
Anyway, Merry Christmas, when it comes!

[John Kavanaugh]

I miss Melvyn!
Walking is integral to golf.  The cart has: added to the expense of the game, added to maintainance and cart path construction costs no-one cares to put a # to, and starved a couple generations (so far) from the opportunity to get golf in their souls.  It has created a huge group of fair weather users that consider it part of the equipment and where the 12 pack goes.  
Operators that discover the value in walking, IMHO, will be rewarded for not going with the flow...thankfully something our predecessors found the courage to do to move our world foreward.
Speaking of skating, most skaters have a hard time turning to the right because everyone always likes to skate counterclockwise in open skating and training drills - because that's how they've always done it.

I'm sorry but golf is made affordable by attracting golfers to either play and/or join a course. Carts attract golfers thus making the game more affordable for those who walk.  A modern fact of life is that you need baby boomers and we are getting really old really fast. Take away the carts and we will follow. I was thinking about how my Dad has paid dues and not played for years because he knew his money was good for the club. I can't wait for you pompous ass young walkers to pay your own way without being subsidized by a bunch of obese alcoholics whose carts wrinkle your precious pristine turf.

[Sean_A]

So, JakaB, using your logic, when the baby boomers fall off their twigs in 20 years, will the cost of golf suddenly increase dramatically?  

Baby boomers may ride now, but I bet most started the game as walkers.  Carts didn't then suddenly make the game cheaper it made the game more accessible - in the main for lazy buggers who could afford to pay more for a cart. If carts were never introduced, golf would be cheaper - no?  The matter has gone so far that now we have cart ball by design because its a given that a significant percentage of golfers will ride and that operators need the extra revenue stream (see that, extra revenue stream means more expensive golf).  Listen, I have never cared if people ride or walk .  I usually much prefer to walk, but I can go either way if folks feel strongly.  What I object to are the bloody paths.  They are ugly and interfer with the game because lazy golfers don't want to walk an extra 25 yards from a place where the path is hidden from sight and out of play.

Ciao

[BCowan]

In our current culture, choosing to walk and [fill in blank] is a behavior overwhelmingly engaged in by high-education, high-SES "elites". I am no social psychologist and will not venture a guess as to why it works out that way. But by simple observation I can see that, if we discuss only those with enough means to have a choice between walking and riding in any given activity it definitely follows a pattern in which walking by choice (or running for exercise for that matter) is more likely the higher you are up the socioeconomic scale.

    I disagree with that somewhat.  I see walking at Muni's, top end clubs with caddies, and run of the mill private.  Again depending on what city or region it can drastically change.  The Modern upscale public is where you see walking banned more times than not and more people riding.  I would consider people who play upscale public (more educated) but less connection to traditions like a muni golfer is. 

[John Kavanaugh]

When the baby boomers die the middle class will no longer be able to afford the game of golf on an independent level as we now know it. They will be regulated to driving ranges and corporate outings. Japan seems to have already adopted that model.

Most things come full circle and as such American golf will return to its earliest roots. This should not come to a surprise to anyone.

[BCowan]

The double strapped bag has created a forced upright posture that requires a pomposity of stride associated with any well known elitist stereotype. There is really no debate.

   I have a double strapped ping bag L-8, so i am an elitist???  What planet are you from?

By the way jKava my parents are both in there mid 60's (baby boomers), and they both walk with trolleys.  My father caddied for my mother, and that is how they met at the same club they are members now.  My mom plays 80 rounds a year in northern climates and uses a motorized trolley.  Most of the couples 50+ and over use trolley's and walk.  My father has said that if they charged a trail fee or banned walking they would lose 50% of their membership.  My parents would quit and my mother has been out their for 50+ years.  There is a huge assault on walking from ''revenue'' only outlook.  How much revenue would their be at some private clubs if walking was banned???  Luckily you aren't on the board their, because they wouldn't have 90%+ numbers.  None of us are advocating to ban carts.  The clubs members in their elder years take carts, the disturbing thing i see, is people who are young choosing to take carts in their 30's who play at private walking courses.  To each is own, just think we have lost unwritten traditions in golf.  

[BCowan]

Jkava

    Japan has been doing the same Keynesian plan you most likely support.  It doesn't work.  Japan doesn't have the land to make golf affordable, you have to compare apples to apples.  

[Sean_A]

When the baby boomers die the middle class will no longer be able to afford the game of golf on an independent level as we now know it. They will be regulated to driving ranges and corporate outings. Japan seems to have already adopted that model.

Most things come full circle and as such American golf will return to its earliest roots. This should not come to a surprise to anyone.

JakaB

The Japanese are resigned to ranges and corp outing because of the crush on land.  The US has a bountiful supply of land and better yet, a bountiful supply of courses.  I can't see the vast majority of cheap publics, munis and mom & pops suddenly become unaffordable in 20 years.  Nor can I envision 10-20% of courses closing up shop.  I can see a trend for owners to realize that golf is too expensive and find ways to cut costs.  I can envision folks accepting that cuttiing costs means courses likely won't be in as good as condition as they have come to expect.  In other words, because of the oversupply of golf courses, golf at the modest level will remain a golfer's market for many years to come, with or without baby boomers. Its baby boomers who, despoite a huge increase in courses, have presided over the jacked cost of golf and with their passing the game has an opportunity to be seen in a completely different light.  

Ciao  

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