Erin Hills' new rebuilt/relocated 3rd green

[Howard Riefs]

A post on the Erin Hills' superintendent's blog says that a few changes were made to the course this fall, most significant of which is their "rebuilt and relocated 3rd green with new contours surrounding the green and new greenside bunkers installed."

http://erinhills.com/erin_hills_golf_superintendents_corner_2.aspx

[Josh Tarble]

Hmm, hopefully its a good one, because I thought the old one was fantastic.

[Morgan Clawson]

My guess is that they moved it  in order to place more stands around the green.

[Derek Dirksen]

Morgan,

The reason why the 3rd green was moved has nothing to do with grandstands.  It was moved to give players the option of running the ball onto the green.  The old green was impossible to use the ground game.  We moved it 60 to 70 feet to the right. There is a coffin style bunker on the right of the green.  The old right side bunker is now inline with the center of new green.  We built a new left side bunker as well.  The center bunker is detached from the green.  There will be a sliver of fairway right of the center bunker that will connect up with the right side of green.  I will try to get some pictures of the new green complex up when I get a chance.

[Jim Franklin]

Is this the really tiny green? It looks a little bigger.

[Jason Thurman]

Wow. That's a really big change.

Derek, does this add a little bit of distance to the hole? It seems like it probably would.

Count me among the group that loved the previous green. Then again, Erin Hills has chosen pretty well in the renovations they've made so far, so I'll give the benefit of the doubt. It's definitely true that the old green didn't allow a ground game approach, and it makes sense to add that option on such a long hole as long as it still plays well.

[Howard Riefs]

Is this the really tiny green? It looks a little bigger.

Maybe you're thinking of #2?

[John Morrissett]

As Zach wrote in his column (see http://erinhills.com/erin_hills_golf_superintendents_corner_2.aspx for the text as well as pictures) and Derek (who did a GREAT job shaping the new green and surrounds), the concerns with the original green were its severe contours and the inability to bounce a ball into the green (even to the unguarded right side).

Part of the goal is to allow the hole to play as long as it can for the 2017 U.S. Open (even though the new green actually shortens the hole some 10+ yards).  While the total length of Erin Hills seems absurdly long (with the ability to stretch the course to more than 8100 yards), that distance is somewhat misleading because of (1) the length of the four three-shotters (which average (!) 624 from the black tees) and (2) the fast fine fescue fairways.  There are not as many really long two-shotters as one might expect, especially after the 10th.  Therefore, it is desirable to let the 3rd play reasonably at 480-520 yards for the Open.

The original 3rd green was certainly intriguing, esp. as it reflected the natural grade of the site (fairly unusual for a two-level green).  It played well from shorter distances, but not at 490+ yards.  While the severity of the transition between the two levels could be looked at as a penalty for a missed approach, the narrowness of the left/upper level was just not a reasonable target for more than a 7-iron.

I am quite excited about the new green.  While it fits in well with the other greens, it will not remind you of another green on the course.  The bunker that was some 30 yards short and right of the original green is now a central bunker that visually dominates the approach.  The middle of the green is just hidden by this bunker, while much of the left side of the green is visible and some of the right.  The bunker deceives, as it actually lies some ten  yards shy of the green, allowing plenty of room to bounce in a long approach and to land a downwind approach.  The two back corners of the green gently run away from the golfer and will provide good hole locations.  The back-left hole location will just be tucked behind the new left bunker.  From the fairway, it is an entirely different-looking second shot.

While part of me was sad to say goodbye to the original green, I am really excited about the new green and can't wait to play it.  While this change will benefit the Open, it will also be a fun change for the daily golfer.

Conflict of interest disclosure: I am the Competitions Director at Erin Hills.

[Joe Bausch]

If they built a better green than what was there before, then they deserve a big pat on the back.

[Pete_Pittock]

Wow. That's a really big change.

Derek, does this add a little bit of distance to the hole? It seems like it probably would.

Count me among the group that loved the previous green. Then again, Erin Hills has chosen pretty well in the renovations they've made so far, so I'll give the benefit of the doubt. It's definitely true that the old green didn't allow a ground game approach, and it makes sense to add that option on such a long hole as long as it still plays well.

I was there near the end of September. The area of the new green, as indicated by our caddies would shorten the hole by about 15 yards.
The photos on the superitendent's blog confirm this.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Thank you for sharing.

Who owns the change or who was the responsible entity for making the change?
Why does a target have to be reasonable for more than a 7 iron, assuming this is the only occurrence on the course?

I have never been to Erin Hills.
cheers

[Tom_Doak]

John:

How many greens is that now that have been changed since I saw the course just before it opened?

Doesn't it start with #1, #2 and now #3?

[John Morrissett]

Mike -

The decision to build a new green for the 3rd hole was a joint one by Erin Hills, the architects and the USGA.

As stated, part of the reason for the new green was to allow the hole to play as long as it can to help with the overall balance of the course.  The good majority of daily golfers are hitting a mid-iron or more into the green, and the same will likely be the case with the Open.

Tom -

Since the course opened, the 4th, 10th and, now, 3rd holes have entirely new greens.  The 2nd and 9th greens were expanded, and the 15th green had the spine softened.

I'd love to have you two come play next summer!

Thanks.
John

[Mike Nuzzo]

Thank you John
Good luck with the planning & US Open
Cheers

[Tom_Doak]

Tom -

Since the course opened, the 4th, 10th and, now, 3rd holes have entirely new greens.  The 2nd and 9th greens were expanded, and the 15th green had the spine softened.

I'd love to have you two come play next summer!

John:

I would love have time to do that, because it would mean that I'm working close by -- and I hope to be working close by.  But I still don't know if I will be.

[Mark Smolens]

Tom -

Since the course opened, the 4th, 10th and, now, 3rd holes have entirely new greens.  The 2nd and 9th greens were expanded, and the 15th green had the spine softened.

I'd love to have you two come play next summer!

John:

I would love have time to do that, because it would mean that I'm working close by -- and I hope to be working close by.  But I still don't know if I will be.

Tom, fair to say that most of the Midwest folks on this board are hoping that you will be working close by, and soon!