Renaissance Cup at Renaissance Club

[Ally Mcintosh]

Niall,

Frank is correct.

Last year, the GUI came round to slope rate Carne, including the new 9. Apparently one of their ratings is for green undulations - "mild, moderate or hard" (I think)...

The new nine has some very heavy internal contouring... The most extreme green of the lot is the 8th, one I feel is right on the edge and truth be told, one I would have softened further if it weren't for the fact it would have looked too shelf like... They categorised it as "mild"... At that stage, I gave up on the rating having any sense of reality.

But be sure it's coming to a club near you soon...

[Anthony Fowler]

I think the discussion of slope is interesting. The Course Rating is supposed to reflect the difficulty of a course for scratch golfers. The Slope Rating is supposed to reflect the differential difficulty of a course for higher handicappers relative to scratch golfers. If these numbers are calculated well, I would like to see more courses that have high Course Ratings but low Slope Ratings. These kinds of courses would be playable for everyone (few forced carries, lost balls, excessively penal hazards, etc.) but difficult for the good players to score on (strategic angles, challenging greens, etc.). Tom, your courses usually fit this bill nicely. If anything, you should be proud of the low Slope Ratings on many of your courses.

[Carl Nichols]

I think the discussion of slope is interesting. The Course Rating is supposed to reflect the difficulty of a course for scratch golfers. The Slope Rating is supposed to reflect the differential difficulty of a course for higher handicappers relative to scratch golfers. If these numbers are calculated well, I would like to see more courses that have high Course Ratings but low Slope Ratings. These kinds of courses would be playable for everyone (few forced carries, lost balls, excessively penal hazards, etc.) but difficult for the good players to score on (strategic angles, challenging greens, etc.). Tom, your courses usually fit this bill nicely. If anything, you should be proud of the low Slope Ratings on many of your courses.

Agreed.  I'd be curious what the original course ratings were at Renaissance Club and Stonewall. 

[Tom_Doak]

I think the discussion of slope is interesting. The Course Rating is supposed to reflect the difficulty of a course for scratch golfers. The Slope Rating is supposed to reflect the differential difficulty of a course for higher handicappers relative to scratch golfers. If these numbers are calculated well, I would like to see more courses that have high Course Ratings but low Slope Ratings. These kinds of courses would be playable for everyone (few forced carries, lost balls, excessively penal hazards, etc.) but difficult for the good players to score on (strategic angles, challenging greens, etc.). Tom, your courses usually fit this bill nicely. If anything, you should be proud of the low Slope Ratings on many of your courses.

I don't mind the low Slope ratings at all, except that most people don't understand what it means.  But in the end, I don't really care about the Slope at all, I am proud of the golf courses because they are fun to play.

[Greg Tallman]

TD, Are you OK with what appears to be dramatically reduced width of the course?

[Frank Pont]

I don't mind the low Slope ratings at all, except that most people don't understand what it means.  But in the end, I don't really care about the Slope at all, I am proud of the golf courses because they are fun to play.

That's funny enough exactly what I tell my clients....

But again the problem is that the formulas are just not correct/complete, which leads to garbage in- garbage out.

It is most obvious when on a normal tournament day a whole field of scratch or better players does not score the Course Rating on average.
A good example was the Dutch Amateur Strokeplay championships this year at Hoge Kleij, a Frank Pennink course I renovated a few years ago, where in perfect circumstances (sunshine, no wind, no rough) the field on average played much worse than the course rating.

In perfect circumstances (no wind, sunshine, no rough) the winner scored +2 over 4 rounds