[Jordan Wall]

Are there jobs/internships out there available for non landscape architecture majors within the golf architecture industry?

If so, where is the best place to look for such positions and who are the best people to talk to?

Thanks,

[John Kavanaugh]

Have you graduated?  What are you doing now?

[Michael Dugger]

Sure, it's called in a ditch with a shovel or rake.

If you are lucky they'll let you load sand into a dump truck all day.

All for minimum wage!!!

[Steve Okula]

Sure, it's called in a ditch with a shovel or rake.

If you are lucky they'll let you load sand into a dump truck all day.

All for minimum wage!!!

Even those jobs are hard to come by these days.

But if you're keen on long hours of menial, monotonous work, and low pay, you could try breaking in through the maintenance side. Apply to the greenkeeping staff of a big name club to get that on your resume. They might be glad just to get a golfer and native English speaker.

You'll then at least be active in the circle of people with whom architects collaborate, and you'll gain some useful knowledge of what works.

[Jordan Wall]

Have you graduated?  What are you doing now?

Graduate in two weeks from University of Washington business school.  

I have several great job offers from very good companies but more than anything I'd like to work in the golf architecture industry.  Realizing this could mean low pay for a while plus a lot of travel, I'm still looking at all the avenues I can to see if there is a possibility of pursuing my passion (golf and GCA) before accepting one of these offers.  

[Chris Johnston]

Jordan

You just never know where the next course project may be.  Ever been to the Sandhills?

While you search, learn fine beers.

[jeffwarne]

Have you graduated?  What are you doing now?

Graduate in two weeks from University of Washington business school.  

I have several great job offers from very good companies but more than anything I'd like to work in the golf architecture industry.  Realizing this could mean low pay for a while plus a lot of travel, I'm still looking at all the avenues I can to see if there is a possibility of pursuing my passion (golf and GCA) before accepting one of these offers.  

Go for it.

The business world will still be out there if things don't work out and who knows you might meet someone who does more for you than any recruiter ever could.
I walked out of a final interview at Arthur Anderson when I took a good look at the guy doing the interview and the attitudes of the people around him
Told him I was going to play golf-and I have

Chris' advice is spot on as it took me awhile to get paid to play mediocre golf

[Bill_McBride]

Jordan, do it now while you don't have a family to support.   Once you are in that situation, it's really tough to take big risks.  All the best!

[Mike_Young]

Send me an email sometime Jordan.

[Sean Remington (SBR)]

   If your willing to see the world you should look into an international design firm.  Most new course work going on out of this country.

[PCCraig]

Have you graduated?  What are you doing now?

Graduate in two weeks from University of Washington business school.  

I have several great job offers from very good companies but more than anything I'd like to work in the golf architecture industry.  Realizing this could mean low pay for a while plus a lot of travel, I'm still looking at all the avenues I can to see if there is a possibility of pursuing my passion (golf and GCA) before accepting one of these offers.  

Ok, I'll say it.

Take one of those several great job offers you already have.

If you're just now figuring out that you want to get into architecture you are too late to the game. Using your business major to go work on a club's grounds crew for $8/hour or digging ditches in the sand hills is a waste of an Evans Scholarship....if that's what you wanted to do you should of done that out of high school.

[Mike Nuzzo]

I disagree with Pat and don't think you should be guilted into staying the course you chose
I changed majors at age 32
George Bahto changed majors at age 60ish
You can also try one of the jobs and see how it goes - you may like it and having more resources can certainly be freeing
Cheers

[JESII]

I didn't realize the goal of the Evans Scholarship was to create bankers...

What better way to learn learn the value of a business degree than dig ditches on a golf course for $8/hour.

[Mike_Young]

Jordan,
I think Pat C gives you good realistic advice.  But Mike N and Jim F also have a point.  If you do it , you need to look at it like trying to play the tour or trying to play baseball.  I think a business degree can be a good degree for GCA.  you will need it.  I had forgotten you were an Evans Scholar...hell, I'll let you work on a site in Costa Rica or Nica if you wish...you can start in Jan.  
Oh, another great help n the GCA business is to find a wealthy wife.  

[Jeffrey Stein]

Jordan,

I graduated college in 2008 with a degree in Economics and business.  I didn't want an office job, so I caddied, then drove myself out to Old Macdonald, across the country, from NY (Thank you Tom Doak, Jim Urbina, Ken Nice!).  If you want to find out what GCA is all about take Mike Young's offer, grab your backpack and head to Costa Rica ASAP!!  

At Old Mac, I made $9.50/hour to handle a shovel and rake and pick up rocks and twigs during construction and never wasted one moment of my college education out there.  I even stayed after my allotted 38 hours/week and worked for free, learning from the Renaissance crew...  

Bill Coore told me one of his first jobs in "GCA" was chainsawing trees in a swamp, up to his waist in water...Long hours, time away from home, amazing settings for golf, crappy jobs sometimes leading to great opportunities...at least give it a try and you'll never regret it (you'll find out real quick if your cut out for it anyway, just ask yourself if your still having fun)

Good Luck and feel free to reach out anytime

[jeffwarne]

Have you graduated?  What are you doing now?

Graduate in two weeks from University of Washington business school.  

I have several great job offers from very good companies but more than anything I'd like to work in the golf architecture industry.  Realizing this could mean low pay for a while plus a lot of travel, I'm still looking at all the avenues I can to see if there is a possibility of pursuing my passion (golf and GCA) before accepting one of these offers.  

Ok, I'll say it.

Take one of those several great job offers you already have.

If you're just now figuring out that you want to get into architecture you are too late to the game. Using your business major to go work on a club's grounds crew for $8/hour or digging ditches in the sand hills is a waste of an Evans Scholarship....if that's what you wanted to do you should of done that out of high school.

22 years old and his life is over?
Too late to the game? We were in a vicious recession when he was finishing high school and it looked like the financial and golf worlds were melting out of existence-not many grounds crew or architecture firms were looking for an apprentice.
A waste of an Evan's scholarship? I didn't know they had such short term checkpoints. What's a worthy occupation and how soon should he be contributing to society?
How many College graduates can't FIND a job that they deem worthy of their "qualifications" so they move home and don't work at all.
Here's a guy who will go dig ditches to pursue his passion.

I'd say going to and staying in college and finishing is admireable and wise, and is a good backup plan.
Now go chase the dream.
 Gil Hanse is certainly happy didn't take that track and take the job under the Congressman he was offered.

[Mike Nuzzo]

P.S.
Mike Young changed majors later too

[Ally Mcintosh]

Jordan - It's now or never.

Starting with no ties and responsibilities gives you an enormous amount of freedom.

I started later and I know there are still going to be incredibly hard decisions down the line because of it... Balanced against this is a better all round wise head however.... If I had started at 21, I may have been designing containment mounding, fountains and amoeba shaped bunkering at this point... I needed a little life experience to learn my own mind...

[Sean_A]

Not that I am an archie, but I don't honestly think this is about architecture - its a life decision that could be about anything.  IMO, I think Ally is right.  Now is a great time to roll the dice, but be aware that your "real life" job prospects may suffer for rolling the dice.  That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but its worth strong consideration.  Much also depends on your personality and only you know that.  I can say do this or that, but you will know what the best choice is for you at this moment in time.  Either way, I reckon you are sitting pretty at least in the short term.  

Ciao

[Jeff Taylor]

I bet there are success stories where things fell into place nicely and hard work wasn't required. My guess is that they occur less frequently than the ones where people of character and passion work very hard and make their own breaks. Not to say that good fortune won't come your way in the form of help from others or good timing in the marketplace. Find something that you love doing, be smart in how you might turn it into a living and then be relentless in it's pursuit. Start early and structure your life so that everything points in the same direction. You will get there.

[Joe Hancock]

Above all else, chose wisely as to who you learn from. It will be the backbone of what you know and do.

Joe

[Mike_Young]

P.S.
Mike Young changed majors later too

Mike,
I am still apt to change majors at a moments notice....

[Mike_Young]

Above all else, chose wisely as to who you learn from. It will be the backbone of what you know and do.

Joe

Gee..was that a warning?

[PCCraig]

jeffwarne,

There are hundreds or thousands of kids that would give anything for a free ride to college via the Evans program. Why? Because they want to study business, medicine, law, etc. and they wouldn't be able to afford to do so at the same level of university without the Scholarship. The job opportunities that Jordan has been offered are because he is going to have a business degree paid for by the WGA. Throwing that aside for a few years while heading to Costa Rica to pick up rocks for $9/hour is something he doesn't need a business degree for, heck, I'm not sure he even needs a GED. If Jordan was serious about getting into architecture, he should of studied landscape architecture, turf, etc. You guys may think that he can always fall back on his degree but if there is anything more useless than an undergraduate business degree its a undergraduate business degree that's three years old with no work experience behind it.

And Gil Hanse is a terrible comparison. Gil went to Cornell and received a scholarship to study golf course architecture in the UK and interned at an architecture firm. Sure he had an offer to work for a congressman, but he already had deep roots in the golf architecture world. He had a choice but it was a certainly less risky one that Jordan has.

Of course the majority of the posters here are going to tell him "go for it" "reach for your dreams" blah blah blah...this is a golf course architecture forum with a bunch of GCA nerds posting. He's preaching to the choir. I may come off as a jerk in these posts, but this is just my advice.

[Mike_Young]

With respect to both sides of the "business degree" question, I would side with Pat.  But I say that not knowing Jordan the individual.  This discussion group is a very idealistic group that evaluates a very small portion of the actual golf design and construction that happens each year.  And having said that IMHO a business degree would be much more valuable to survive in the business than a landscape degree or a turf degree IF the individual found he had a talent for the business.  My son works with me and his degree is finance but he has an eye and understands the business from having grown up in it.  If Jordan is this type of fellow then it may be he is good at it and the business degree will serve him well.  If not he has to know to move on very quickly.  The other thing about the golf business is the quantity and quality of the business executives you will form relationships.  Those can be parlayed if needed while still a young man.  
I've had a bout 20 interns or young guys that wanted to work in the business over the last 25 years and being in Athens most were LAR degrees.  I think 4 of those are still working for larger design firms and from updates I receive 11 are no longer in the LAR field.  

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