[Patrick_Mucci]

RJ,

Once world class athletes like Jordan, Marino, Elway, along with the myriad of baseball and hockey players began playing golf and announcing their love for the game, it elevated golf from a "sissy" sport to a popular sport.

Starting in the 50's and 60's parents began touting alternative sports, soccer being the most prominent.

Then, lacrosse began to become popular.

Remember, in the 60's, Nick Buoniconti, an All American linebacker and guard at Notre Dame, played at 205 to 215.
Today, he couldn't make a high school team from a size standpoint.
From the 60's to current date, players became bigger and faster and more athletic.
In addition, conditioning programs other than pure weight training began to gain momentum.
All of this resulted in speeding up the game with bigger, stronger athletes.
This in turn resulted in more injuries, not nicks and bruises injuries, but injuries with lifestyle altering affects.
And some parents began to see this emerging pattern which resulted in redirecting their kids sports pursuits.

At the same time kids were discovering alternatives to football that might not have had the glory associated with playing football, but, with ascending recognition and reward.

There's a reason that good to great basketball players come from the inner city and why good to great football players come from other than well to do, well educated families.  Contact sports has always been the highway leading from poverty/middle class to riches for the less than wealthy.  The problem is the price paid by those who don't achieve the ultimate success in their sport.  And, more and more parents are realizing that the risk is not worth the rare reward.

The "Olympic" spirit, dating back thousands of years, almost deified the best amateur athletes.

Commercialism has deified the "professional" athlete, at every level, and left the amateur athletes on the back pages, if that.

[Wade Whitehead]

RJ: Wrestling and golf are pretty different animals, but your post brings to mind another difference in golf and other sports.

In virtually every sport, half of participants win while the other half lose.  Soccer, football, baseball, softball, etc. provide an environment where half of the people involved win.

Half of wrestlers win their match at every event, and many of the individual losers can still win as a team.  Other individual sports, like swimming, run heats, so at least participants get a change at a "win" (or at least a top three).

In golf, one person wins.  As many as 143 don't.

Winning isn't everything, but never tasting victory can be a huge deterrent.

WW

[Mark Bourgeois]

Kelly,

I'm pretty sure no-contact practices is almost where the NFL is thanks to the current CA and where the Ivy League already is. I recall under Butch Davis UNC went no-contact practices, which is to say there might be some AQ conference programs with it in place.

[Rees Milikin]

Reality is for many of the niche sports - swimming, tennis, golf, squash…. playing on a high school team is a detriment to playing in college because the local competition is not high enough. They would rather focus on regional and national tournaments….

Add soccer and lacrosse, at least for most parts of the country, to your list. Some high-level soccer clubs bar their participants from playing on high school teams. Shoot, even basketball seems headed in that direction, with AAU taking over.

My club team strongly discouraged us to play high school soccer. 

As for the sport that benefits the most from Football's safety issues, I see the MLS & youth soccer becoming stronger and more popular.

[Pat Burke]

When I was a kid growing up in New Jersey..
Played in Junior tournaments at...Cedar Hill, Morris County, Whipporwil, Montclair, Plainfield
and many others
I caddied as a kid, earned my own money for my car, insurance etc.   But my parents paid for
golf tournaments (if I practiced), and hockey.
Tournaments were pretty damn cheap as I remember.  Trophies and medals were the prizes.

I moved to California in 1981, and the Pasadena City Championship (my first event) had an entry that was 3-4 times
what the NJ State Am at Ridgewood cost.  All playing for a lot of script on a crap course.

When the AJGA became the minor league system for college golf, low cost junior events started losing
their luster.  Pity

When I was helping run our junior foundation, I tried to get a little junior tour started.  The idea being to get a number of courses
to commit their course one (or two days) for a minimal fee.  
Our course was 5 dollars per player.  A junior from any of the courses that were providing their course, played any event for $20-$25.  If your course did NOT participate, the fee would be around $50.  We really wanted to get the courses involved.  Our staff would run the sign-ups and events.
Called 10 courses, got one yes, 3 no, and 6 no return of calls.   It got no where.  

[jeffwarne]

e.

When the AJGA became the minor league system for college golf, low cost junior events started losing
their luster.  Pity

When I was helping run our junior foundation, I tried to get a little junior tour started.  The idea being to get a number of courses
to commit their course one (or two days) for a minimal fee.  
Our course was 5 dollars per player.  A junior from any of the courses that were providing their course, played any event for $20-$25.  If your course did NOT participate, the fee would be around $50.  We really wanted to get the courses involved.  Our staff would run the sign-ups and events.
Called 10 courses, got one yes, 3 no, and 6 no return of calls.   It got no where.  

The sad thing about the AJGA is you have a kid and his parents flying around the country to play in tournaments he can't possibly win, and most likely can't even get in without a connection, and not having the time to play in local junior events where they could gain some confidence and contribute to the success of the events.
No different than the travel travel soccer model, which has killed local youth sports(to say nothing of parent's golf), particularly for those of limited financial means.
Nothing better than a busload of mediocre kids driving 4 hours to play another busload of mediocre kids, when all of them would benefit from using that 8 hours locally to play and practice whatever sport it is the're travelling needless miles at great expense to play.

Pat-kudos for trying to start a local league for kids.
Eden Foster, the Head pro at Maidstone has started an interclub league here on the East End with many of the great courses involved.
Clubs host once a summer-no small feat during the crazy busy short season when kids are out of school.
Obviously this mainly helps out kids already members of clubs, but a few of us slip in local nonmember kids as the opportunity arises, and these kids get to play a local tour that includes Shinnecock, Maidstone, The Bridge, Southampton etc.

[Patrick_Mucci]

JakaB,

Who are those that are part of the "secret enclave of power hungry officials" ? ? ?

I just played with a former President of the USGA and he was one of the most enjoyable individuals you could play with.
Knowledgeable and concerned about the game.
Lots of interesting conversations.

In my limited experience with the USGA, almost all of the staff and volunteer officials were "golfers" who had a love for the game, who dedicated their time to the game and to improving the game.

My familiarity extended to "Executive Committee" members as well, and I never encountered any evidence of a "secret enclave of power hungry officials"

In the words of "Butch & Sundance", who are those guys ?

[jeffwarne]

Kelly,

I'm pretty sure no-contact practices is almost where the NFL is thanks to the current CA and where the Ivy League already is. I recall under Butch Davis UNC went no-contact practices, which is to say there might be some AQ conference programs with it in place.

Yes, I have also heard the NFL does not hit during the week. That approach will be more challenging at the youth level where you are teaching them the game. Not allowing your kid to play until later may make sense, but how do you teach the game by leaving out an important component. Starting around age 11 and 12 the kids can flat out rock someone. We had a 12 year old that was a vicious hitter. He had a massive collision that took him out of a game. As we left once the game was over the kid collapsed on the track and couldn't move, all due to the head injury/concussion. Golf sounds like a better alternative. Soccer, lacrosse, will take advantage of football's woes but some AD's are saying concussions have increased for all sports.

Several good posts here that make me think about particular incidents. One dad told me his kid was refused a tryout with a college golf team because he did not participate in AJGA events. The coach said he had no way to compare the kid with other players who played AJGA that he was recruiting. This kid was the number one player on a state championship team, he may have won the individual state championship. He also competed in many state amateur events and did well. Family is very wealthy but the dad was not going to fly around the country and pay $500 to enter events, besides his son went to the school for the education so he was fine not being given the chance to play college golf.

I was surprised by comments from parents whose kids are exceeding at college sports. At a party we were talking about the Pennsylvania grand canyon, and the outdoor activities and an acquaintance lamented how much of that they missed because of all of the practices and travel team events the kids played in. Her daughter has a full ride for field hockey at CT and just won a national championship. I was surprised she even considered the sacrifices made for travel sports. Another dad and kid commented about all the fun stuff they missed growing up as they traveled the east coast for baseball. The kid wanted to have a paint ball birthday at age 16 but baseball took precedent. Finally, at age 20, he got his wish on black friday, when 3 of us dads and 10 kids spent the day at a paintball facility in the woods, and had a great time. The kid is a D1 baseball player and the family was always on the go with travel baseball so I never imagined they had one regret but I definitely sensed it in our conversations afterward.

+1

I'm amazed how many people spend a FORTUNE to increase their chance of a scholarship. I think people(and many coaches) way overrate travel experience over skill and talent,

my daughter was recruited to play field hockey.(wouldn't allow her to play travel until she was 16 and old enough to drive herself)
We went to a D-! school for a visit.walked the campus, she loved it.
First question 10 seconds into the interview. "Can I study abroad?"   No, you're a D-1 athlete on scholarship
second question- "Can I ski" No, you're a D-1 athlete on scholarship "
she gets up and says " I think we're done here"

Went to Middlebury(D-3 but a national power) asked the same questions,completely different answers --- spent last summer in Peru, is studying next semester in Chile, skis 3-4 days a week in the winter.

[Tim Martin]

e.

When the AJGA became the minor league system for college golf, low cost junior events started losing
their luster.  Pity

When I was helping run our junior foundation, I tried to get a little junior tour started.  The idea being to get a number of courses
to commit their course one (or two days) for a minimal fee.  
Our course was 5 dollars per player.  A junior from any of the courses that were providing their course, played any event for $20-$25.  If your course did NOT participate, the fee would be around $50.  We really wanted to get the courses involved.  Our staff would run the sign-ups and events.
Called 10 courses, got one yes, 3 no, and 6 no return of calls.   It got no where.  

The sad thing about the AJGA is you have a kid and his parents flying around the country to play in tournaments he can't possibly win, and most likely can't even get in without a connection, and not having the time to play in local junior events where they could gain some confidence and contribute to the success of the events.
No different than the travel travel soccer model, which has killed local youth sports(to say nothing of parent's golf), particularly for those of limited financial means.
Nothing better than a busload of mediocre kids driving 4 hours to play another busload of mediocre kids, when all of them would benefit from using that 8 hours locally to play and practice whatever sport it is the're travelling needless miles at great expense to play.

Pat-kudos for trying to start a local league for kids.
Eden Foster, the Head pro at Maidstone has started an interclub league here on the East End with many of the great courses involved.
Clubs host once a summer-no small feat during the crazy busy short season when kids are out of school.
Obviously this mainly helps out kids already members of clubs, but a few of us slip in local nonmember kids as the opportunity arises, and these kids get to play a local tour that includes Shinnecock, Maidstone, The Bridge, Southampton etc.

Jeff- My son was lucky enough to play in an interclub league in the Hartford area when he was in high school comprised of both private and public golf clubs. The host club put the event on with no charge for green fees and many times included lunch as well.  Eight clubs were involved so it lasted for the entire Summer. The variety and caliber of courses was stronger than those used for the section events and was a great way for kids to get involved that couldn't afford the entry fees for the other model. Plenty of times my son and I would look at the Junior PGA schedule and he would opt for the interclub events.

[jeffwarne]

Tim,
We host a PGA jr event and there are plenty around in the MET section, but the last couple years my son has opted for the interclubs which are local, 9 holes, and the driver isn't committed to a 1-3 hour drive each way + waiting for a 6 hour round to finish.
+ my assistant usually takes them over in my truck, stays to help, and then I drop by later to assist in bringing them in-great fun

[Mike Hendren]

A few observations:

Wade is correct, golf is too difficult.

Golfers are generally dorks.  

Athleticism should not be wasted on golf.

There is no such thing as backyard, pick-up golf.

This generation of youngsters is generally attention deficit to some extent - they multi-task and crave constant action:  skills that are detrimental to enjoying or mastering the game of golf.    Even Mucci's 3-hour round is a marathon to a kid.

Bogey

[John Kavanaugh]

JakaB,

Who are those that are part of the "secret enclave of power hungry officials" ? ? ?

I just played with a former President of the USGA and he was one of the most enjoyable individuals you could play with.
Knowledgeable and concerned about the game.
Lots of interesting conversations.

In my limited experience with the USGA, almost all of the staff and volunteer officials were "golfers" who had a love for the game, who dedicated their time to the game and to improving the game.

My familiarity extended to "Executive Committee" members as well, and I never encountered any evidence of a "secret enclave of power hungry officials"

In the words of "Butch & Sundance", who are those guys ?

Pat,

You if anyone on this site is a man of the world with your eyes wide open.  Why do people in power create rules and/or barriers to entry that only they can understand and that requires them to enforce?  In every case it is to remain in power.  

The current rules help three types of people. Golfers who bend the rules to the breaking point to achieve a lower score than their ball striking would allow, want to be snitches sitting with their finger on speed dial and USGA officials.  If the rules were made more simple each of the above would lose something while people who enjoy the game at its very core would win.  I think even you would agree the USGA no longer represents such golfers.

I completely lost faith when they decided that we had to identify our ball in a hazard.  I'm sorry but I simply can not stand seeing a guy in a hazard pick up his ball and then place it back down.  It's like the USGA wants us to cheat.  If degenerate gamblers can play the game off a set of rules written on a cocktail napkin why can't honorable men?

[jeffwarne]

I'm amazed how many people spend a FORTUNE to increase their chance of a scholarship. I think people(and many coaches) way overrate travel experience over skill and talent,

if you get a full ride at a D-1 school worth about $180,000 then it is worth it! It seems like per kid the sports kids are getting a lot more money than the kids that excel at academics. It doesn't pay to be smart in this country if you are looking for significant scholarships. Even at the high school level athletes are getting exceptional "deals" to play for Catholic, Christian and Charter schools. Our local Catholic high school recruits big time and I am pretty certain those kids are not paying much for their private education. When you go into a Christian high school that is 99.9% average looking white kids and there are 4 or 5 huge black kids among them that play basketball you know things like that don't happen by accident. It is no accident this little Christian school was nationally ranked in basketball, and it is no accident all the black kids are playing D-1 now, including at Syracuse.

Kelly,
Those 4-5 "recruits" you describe don't need and can't afford to travel a jillion miles to gain experience.
They didn't get great by playing travel ball, but rather have heredity and talent on their side.
The average looking kids can travel till the cows come home and spend a fortune, and they will still be average with a slightly better skill level.

I enjoy watching the travel soccer kids tell you many goals they scored over the weekend in their travel league in some farawy locale-they have plenty of time to tell these story\ies because they're on the bench watching others "less fortunate" and mainly hispanic kids run circles around the opponents after spending their weekend at the park PLAYING soccer, not DRIVING somewhere to play a bunch of other spoiled not so elite travel kids.

[Wade Whitehead]

I don't call them scholarships.  I call them partial reimbursement.

WW

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat,

You if anyone on this site is a man of the world with your eyes wide open.  
Why do people in power create rules and/or barriers to entry that only they can understand and that requires them to enforce?  
In every case it is to remain in power.  

JakaB,

That's certainly NOT how the USGA operates.
They rotate Presidents and Executive Committee members faster than a chicken on a weekend rotisserie.

If anything, power is fleeting, with about a two year shelf life.  Hardly evidence for a case for remaining in power.

The current rules help three types of people. Golfers who bend the rules to the breaking point to achieve a lower score than their ball striking would allow, want to be snitches sitting with their finger on speed dial and USGA officials.

I couldn't DISAGREE MORE.

The rules HELP the golfer.

And, the rules have evolved from centuries of actual golfing experiences, not because anyone or any one group is trying to remain in power.
One only has to read the "Decisions" book to see how experiences influence and craft the rules.


If the rules were made more simple each of the above would lose something while people who enjoy the game at its very core would win.

The rules are simple.
How much further do you want to dumb them down ?

I think even you would agree the USGA no longer represents such golfers.

I don't agree.
The USGA does represent "golfers", just not golfers who don't want to abide by the rules.

I completely lost faith when they decided that we had to identify our ball in a hazard.  


I was also against that change.
But, just because we don't agree with a rule change, that doesn't render the ruling organization who makes those rules obsolete.


I'm sorry but I simply can not stand seeing a guy in a hazard pick up his ball and then place it back down.

I don't disagree, but, that's the rule.
Dan King can't stand it when anyone touches their ball for any reason other than to tee it up or take it out of the cup.
But, that's not reason enough to dismiss the governing body of the game/sport.

It's like the USGA wants us to cheat.

I can assure you that that's not the case.
And, I believe it was John Morrissette who advocated for the change.
I don't know why the rule was changed, I opposed it's change, but, will abide by the change until it's rescinded.

You can't pick and choose what rules you'll abide by.
Doing so makes you no different from the cheats you abhor.

As the sign above the exit from the Men's locker room at Southern Hills states.
"When the rules are broken at leisure, the game ceases to be golf"

If degenerate gamblers can play the game off a set of rules written on a cocktail napkin why can't honorable men?

Honorable men can, it's the other element that can't.

[Mike Sweeney]

I don't call them scholarships.  I call them partial reimbursement.

WW

Hotel rooms, dining out, gas, airline, consultants, entry fees...it can seem like a gamble.

Sounds like fun to me! Do you ever watch Modern Family? It ends up perfect every time.  

With 3-4 months left of my son's junior squash career and his college choice in the rear window, I see:

* A bond that I have with my son that I never had with my Dad. Not mad at my Dad, but when you drive all over the Northeast and even once to Florida for tournaments, there is no better bonding time than that spent in the car between tournaments/games.

* A son that got his ass kicked by International players in multiple countries. These kids are playing their way out of ghettos and worse. My son was trying to play into a better college. Hey it worked, but I honestly believe those experiences will help him in life. It was the same for me, just easier logistics. I ALWAYS loved being the only white guy on a basketball court and I constantly sought out the best competition. Reality is it was much cheaper for me to get to West Philadelphia than West Europe, but you play the cards you are dealt in life

* Like golf, squash has a smaller but equally loyal following. It is a club that will create lifelong connections for him in life.

* All of the above was driven by his love of the sport. Probably 10 guys in the world can make a living playing squash, and none are American. His high school, and even me with basketball, tried to point him in different directions and he stayed true to his passion. It took him much farther then I ever went at this stage of life.

* He is not the cool guy of his high school as he never played on an athletic team AT school.

I always made him play "vacation golf" because it is a lifelong sport and for the most part, people don't take lacrosse, football, or swimming vacations later in life. I played golf yesterday in 47 degrees on a muni in Tom Doak's hometown that even he would not visit and it was a great day. Golf will be fine, it is the golfers that will screw it up

[jeffwarne]

Those are great observations Mike! I bet the other kids appreciate any talent in a sport. It seems to me athleticism in squash is of the highest order and good athletes know that. That is the funny thing about our country though; any Friday the kid that crosses the goal line is celebrated, but the kid who earlier in the day made a 100 on the AP History exam that averaged 70 among the class must  leave as quietly as possible on the heals  of his or her achievement.

Unless of course he/she does both!

[Mike Sweeney]

I bet the other kids appreciate any talent in a sport. It seems to me athleticism in squash is of the highest order and good athletes know that.

I hang out with Judo players and wrestlers during the day at work. Every niche sport guy, including my son, thinks their sport rules and we all know that basketball, especially at Catholic schools, rules

[Patrick_Mucci]

Those are great observations Mike! I bet the other kids appreciate any talent in a sport. It seems to me athleticism in squash is of the highest order and good athletes know that. That is the funny thing about our country though; any Friday the kid that crosses the goal line is celebrated, but the kid who earlier in the day made a 100 on the AP History exam that averaged 70 among the class must  leave as quietly as possible on the heals  of his or her achievement.

KBM,

You're forgetting about the insanity of the privacy regulations with respect to test scores/grades, even parents, who pay the tuition room and board for their dependent children are excluded/prohibited from getting tests results/grades, but touchdowns are part of the public domain

When I attempted to obtain my older son's grades when he was in college, I was told that I wasn't entitled to them.
I then told the administrator to change the address for any and all bills to my son's dorm room.

[Patrick_Mucci]

KBM,

I think football has become more of a team sport, igniting innovation while basketball has deteriorated into more of an individual sport, lacking innovation

[D_Malley]

I think the biggest problem with youth participation in golf can be seen in many of the posts above.

Adults are too fixated with their kids being competitive and making their school golf team or competing in tournaments.

If we can just expose kids to playing the game in a low stress atmosphere many of them will take to it, regardless of whether they are good or just average. there will be kids who become good at golf and many that do not, but this has little to do with their long term participation in the sport.

as i mentioned before the PGA junior league seems to be going at it the right way.
They use a scramble/match play format, with team jerseys.

http://www.pgajrleaguegolf.com/faq/playerfaq/

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