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Patrick_Mucci

The best part about playing golf is playing
« on: November 29, 2013, 09:30:49 PM »
in a good wind.

It exposes the shortcomings in your game.

You concentrate/think or perish

It puts a pressure on your game like no other element.

It is diabolical in it's treatment of your ball.

It can be fun or it can be hell.

Played recently in about a 2-3 club wind where even the short game, from putts to chips to pitches had to be modified dramatically.

Without wide fairways, the wind almost always wins.

Is the wind one of the major attractions/assets for golf in the UK ?

Bandon ?

Kohler ?

RJ_Daley

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Re: The best part about playing golf is playing
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2013, 11:38:32 PM »
Personal attitude about wind is it is great until it is just too much...  ;D

I really think it gets to a point where all the allure and reflections back to the cradle of the game on the windy links, and affinity to play hale and hearty looses its allure about about sustained 25-30 and gusts above 35-40.  

I once drove to the front fringe of the 7th green at Wild Horse (347IIRC) on a day they were telling trucks and campers to get off the I.  Gusts were 45-50+.  I usually hit driver about 225-40.  Next hole into that same wind, I hit a slice that folded over onto itself about 140.  What did that expose in my game that we didn't already know?  ;D ::)  Same thing with putting off the greens when wind takes it.  I can do that without the wind on slick slippery sloped greens!  No revelations there.  

When conditions are extreme, it may be a fun freak show.   But after a certain point where estimating the wind within some proximity to hitting golf shots that allow the golfer to match skill to architecture and luck to some reasonable expectation, it seems to get futile to take any of it seriously.  
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The best part about playing golf is playing
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2013, 11:54:19 PM »
RJ,

I'm not talking about playing during Hurricane Sandy ;D

But, playing in one, two and three club winds can be exhilarating.

Jason Topp

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Re: The best part about playing golf is playing
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2013, 12:02:31 AM »
After playing at a club protected from the wind, I have played on a very exposed course for the last year.  I have learned to really enjoy it and find you can score pretty close to your normal score if you stay patient.  

Most of our par fours on the front nine are in the 400-420 yard range and I have hit a three wood and a less than full pitching wedge after a good drive on all of them.  It does not take a huge wind to make a 100 yard difference off the tee when the course is firm.  Approach shots downwind can be the most difficult if you are hitting it solid.  

Jeff Shelman

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Re: The best part about playing golf is playing
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2013, 01:42:05 AM »
In terms of wind and GCA, there might be nothing that is less fun than playing on a very windy day on a golf course with too many trees.

I played with a couple of guys from here this fall on an over-treed course on a windy day and it felt like there was nowhere to hit the ball. The course wasn't overly long and I think only one guy in a group of four single-digit handicaps broke 80.

The best news of the day is that I got a signed Jason Topp dollar bill.

On the right courses, however, wind can be fun. You have to think and you are both rewarded and punished.

Sean_A

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Re: The best part about playing golf is playing
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2013, 04:57:21 AM »
Pat

Wind is fine in moderation.  As you suggest; a 2-3 club wind is plenty to cause grief and the guy who control his ball flight well will be in virtual playground.  Once the wind gets near or over 15mph (I think of 15 as usually more than a three club wind), not many courses hit by wind are very accommodating.

Ciao  
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Thomas Dai

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Re: The best part about playing golf is playing
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2013, 06:02:56 AM »
Playing in a 1 or 2 or even 3 club wind is fine. An occasionally 4-5 club wind is exacting/interesting/stimulating, but playing in a 4-5 clubber too often throws your game off. Strong winds and exposed greens, now that's fun. Before the modern ball arrived, fading or drawing a balata into a crosswind to get it to land soft was a skill. Not a shot so prevalent these days.

I've played in sandstorms a few times, sand in the eyes and everywhere else. Always try to putt last - that way you get to see the putting lines from the traces left by your partners putts. Mentioning sand, I used to play with a chap who used contact lenses. On into the wind bunker shots he would put on a pair of sunglasses to play the shot.

Softness/firmness of fairways/greens makes a huge difference in a strong wind. A wayward shot that lands soft can be a lifesaver, whereas a wayward shot that lands and bounces and bounces and rolls and rolls and rolls some more can be interesting. One potentially evil shot into a strong wind is a short iron/wedge to a pin located close to a bunker especially if the bunker has soft sand. Come up short and the spinning ball will 'drill' itself into the sand. Not a nice next shot.

I believe Hogan talked about practicing into the wind, but never in a left-to-right wind (unless working on a particular shot and then only for a short while). I've always been happy to follow the great mans thought as I'm far from convinced that practicing in a wind over 2-clubs, particularly a cross wind, is really worth the bother, you're tempo and swing 'go off' quickly, what with making subconscious allowances/adjustments, etc. 'Practice' though, being very different to hitting some warm-up shots, or chips, or putts before playing in a strong wind, that's okay, necessary really.

Anyone still routinely carry a 1-iron or have we all gone over to hybrids?

ATB
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 06:09:14 AM by Thomas Dai »

Paul Gray

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Re: The best part about playing golf is playing
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2013, 06:22:39 AM »
Coming from a linksy background I generally think anything up to a four club wind I think of as pretty manageable. Personally, even in normal conditions I love the challenge of any course which allows me to decide (or attempt to decide) just how short to pitch an approach shot in order for to run nicely to the hole and this is just exacerbated in a strongish wind. Beyond four clubs though and more demanding courses can become something of a lottery on certain holes.

Thomas,

Went back to a 2-iron (almost nobody even makes a 1-iron in the market these days and lofts have strengthened anyway) for a bit recently but quickly abandoned the plan as a 17* hybrid is just so much more forgiving. I know of golfers that are a bit shocked at the sight of a 3-iron in the bag!
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Thomas Dai

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Re: The best part about playing golf is playing
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2013, 08:34:49 AM »
Paul,

I still have my Ping Eye 1-iron. Must be nearly 25 yrs old. In years gone by when I played almost exclusively  links golf it was a very frequently used club and a great friend to have in the bag. Usually a better lay-up club than a 3-wood too. Every now and then I put it back in the bag again. Interesting thing is, with the modern generation of golf ball the trajectory of 1-iron shots is even lower than I recall from years ago. (maybe the memory playing tricks)!

You're spot on in that no mass manufacturers seem to make a 1 or 2-iron any more, but as you say, then the lofts on all irons have got much stronger over the last 15 yrs or so. As to hybrids, well I've gone this way as well, now putting an Adams a12-pro model into the bag when the wind is up as it flights the ball sensibly low (and is good to chip with as well).

Playing in a strong wind, a great challenge of skill and thought. Fun as well (most of the time!).

ATB

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best part about playing golf is playing
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2013, 09:24:20 AM »
Patrick

For a moment there I thought you understood, until that nonsense about wide fairways. Golf is about adapting your game to the circumstances, not adapting the course.

Case in point, a couple of weeks ago I was playing in a fourball at Western Gailes (which was living up to its name that day) where 3 of us stood on the first tee and hit drivers resulting in two lost balls. Lesson learned, fairway woods, rescue clubs and long irons were utilied from then on. Sometimes it is about keeping the ball in play and keeping it under control. Personally I love the challenge, most of my golfing mates do. That's real golf.

God, I miss Melvyn.

Niall

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best part about playing golf is playing
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2013, 09:31:22 AM »
The links-like feel of Kingsley was what made it so much fun for me. There aren't many places in the Midwest that offer the combination of firm & fast, wind and the ground game. It was the most fun I've ever had playing golf.

Can't wait to get out to Bandon at some point (not to mention the UK and Ireland).

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best part about playing golf is playing
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2013, 09:35:59 AM »
Thomas,

Ah, the old Ping 1-iron. No idea where mine ended up but I know I still had it when I went away to university many years ago and I know I certainly don't have it today!

In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best part about playing golf is playing
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2013, 09:54:51 AM »
Thomas,
Ah, the old Ping 1-iron. No idea where mine ended up but I know I still had it when I went away to university many years ago and I know I certainly don't have it today!
Paul,
You can pick one up on Ebay from about £10 plus p&p. Go on, you know you need one...........!
ATB

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best part about playing golf is playing
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2013, 10:35:57 AM »
Thomas,
Ah, the old Ping 1-iron. No idea where mine ended up but I know I still had it when I went away to university many years ago and I know I certainly don't have it today!
Paul,
You can pick one up on Ebay from about £10 plus p&p. Go on, you know you need one...........!
ATB

At £10 I am genuinely tempted!
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best part about playing golf is playing
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2013, 11:08:40 AM »
 8) in 25-35 mph winds at Ballyneal.. balls rolling off green bring new meaning to need to play fast!

but really not much different than playing in frozen conditions, cabin fever induced in northern winters, where you can literally walk on water

p.s. My Ping "butter knife" is rusting away in the garage, along with the old Ping laminated maple woods with cyclolac inserts, sometimes used it to clear weeds along the backyard fence… takes a round or two to get used to them when they get brought out into the light
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 04:17:17 PM by Steve Lang »
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David Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best part about playing golf is playing
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2013, 12:31:47 PM »
Wind....

I love it. Our average annual wind is 18 mph/29 kmp or windforce 4.8.

I can count all the windless days I've experienced at my club this year on one hand. It's terrible to work on your swing in but great to play in. As a result I don't practice at my club but at a driving range close to my house.

Nothing like hitting knock down shots or trusting your line and the wind to bring the ball back online. It's also exciting with our many blind shots. to sometimes pick lines that are way out of play to find your ball in the fairway.

We have more days in a year like this as we do windless. It's perhaps pushing it a bit but a unique experience. Like this it's only survival and hard enough to keep your balance let alone hit. It also makes putting really scary. Most the time the greenkeeping staff know it's coming and don't mow the greens or there is no chance of the ball not rolling away.



 
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Gib_Papazian

Re: The best part about playing golf is playing
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2013, 02:31:15 PM »
"True golfers pray for wind, but they must not pray too earnestly."  - John Low

My test of wind enjoyment is absolutely golf course and maintenance specific. It has always astonished me that memberships - or the general public who can vote with their feet on daily fee layouts - tolerate punitive, intentionally frustrating conditions. The older I get, in combination with the inevitable accumulation of physical injuries, the pickier I become when and where to tee it up.

Excepting the last few holes of Bandon Trails in a summer wind, each course out there is perfectly playable in a three club breeze provided you've got enough creativity to use the contours of the ground to direct your ball. That asserted, a four club wind anywhere is best negotiated from a clubhouse chair with a single malt in hand.

I've long railed against indulgent architecture that excludes 90% of the golfing populace, including women and seniors who don't have a prayer getting around the course without losing three sleeves of Top Flites and a two pints of blood. Who do these assholes think are going to play these monstrosities? Put aside golf courses intended specifically to square-off with Tour Pros - and self-flagellating amateurs with an expense account AmEx.

Grand Cypress North, South, East; Dove Mountain; Industry Hills; Cascata; Old Greenwood; Las Sendas, PGA West Resort Course; Ruby Hill; Bodega Harbor; The Ranch; The Bridges - one tick above a whisper of breeze and these so-called golf courses transform into 18 lashes from a horsewhip while enduring electroshock testicle torture.

Is hacking your ball out of four inch rough on a uphill, 465 yard par-4 against the wind supposed to be fun? And I'm going to pay for it too? In my view - having played a zillion courses over 54 years - the most egregious mistake an architect can make is a series of severely elevated greens surrounded by hazards in a windy corridor. Yet I see it over and over and over. WTF????

We cannot figure out why people are running from the game and courses are going busteroo. Well, how about presenting courses that middle-handicappers can play without needing to carry a sickle, climbing ropes, pitons and an extra-length ball retriever?

If I had my way, 99% of the courses built would pay close attention to the New Course at St. Andrews or the Duke at Rancho El Dorado. Designing a golf course using the game chutes & ladders as a guidepost gives everyone a different opportunity to get the ball in the hole commiserate with their ability and strength. Why does everybody love NGLA? Uh, because even the hardest holes have multiple options to skin the cat - regardless of the wind.

Why do so many come back from the U.K. with a renewed enthusiasm for the game? Because the courses - though often difficult - are FUN to play. With a slack wind, the course is easier today - in a strong breeze, that bump shot from 100 yards looks pretty good. Try that shit at Butler National and you'll get your rectum rerouted.

Drawing a 5-iron into a stiff wind on #4 at Bandon and watching the ball scamper onto the green is the essence of golf. Trying to figure out a way to hold the same shot on an elevated ribbon of cement - atop a steaming pile of architectural ego surrounded by pits of perdition - is the reason the game continues to shrink like a johnson swimming in the North Sea.    
« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 12:48:58 PM by Gib Papazian »

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best part about playing golf is playing
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2013, 02:39:28 PM »
Welcome back,Gib.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The best part about playing golf is playing
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2013, 02:46:28 PM »
[quote Niall Carlton]

 Patrick

For a moment there I thought you understood, until that nonsense about wide fairways.

Golf is about adapting your game to the circumstances, not adapting the course.[/quote]


Niall,

I was a zero handicap, +/- 2 for 45+ years, hence, I know how to "adapt" my game.

On windy sites, an architect who doesn't create wide fairways isn't doing his client any favors.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The best part about playing golf is playing
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2013, 02:55:11 PM »
 Gib,

I think that's why Seminole is so much fun, for every level of golfer.

Wide fairways, benign rough make it user friendly irrespective of the direction and velocity of the wind on normal days.

The desire/need to frame holes by lining them with trees, creating unplayable lies and impeding the wind has been a trend in the U.S. since the late 50's.

Yes, there's a safety issue that has to be considered, but, the design of the course should factor that in without the need for dense plantings on every hole.

Hitting a low, punched 7-iron from 122 yards into a good breeze is fun and when you pull the shot off, it's exhilarating.

You're right, NGLA, Shinnecock, GCGC and others are a blast to play under calm and windy conditions.

More people should try to figure out.............................. WHY ?

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The best part about playing golf is playing
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2013, 02:57:02 PM »
Thomas Dai & Paul Gray,

I still carry a 2-iron and use it, but, it's getting harder and harder.

I also have my Ping 1-irons but stopped carrying them.

Just two days ago I discovered a rescue/hybrid that I like, but, I need more time to determine if it has a limited or long term shelf life in my bag.

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best part about playing golf is playing
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2013, 02:58:44 PM »
Nae wind, nae bragging in the bar about pulling shots out of your ass despite a 25 mph header.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Gib_Papazian

Re: The best part about playing golf is playing
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2013, 03:03:50 PM »
JM,

Her Redness, taking exception to my foul humor this morning, suggested I find someplace else to empty my bucket of ill-will, snot, animus and snide remarks about her Facebook classmates.

A nasty flu during a rare break from the litigation circus has darkened my Chi.

Naturally, GCA came to mind as a soothing tonic - and place to milk my accumulation of dyspeptic venom.

We've got the Bruins tonight and I am in no mood to suffer a defeat at the hands of my ex-wife's Alma mater.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for my many Wolverine friends (start with Wigler); watching that putrid carpetbagger Urban Meyer go down in flames would improve my outlook immensely.    

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best part about playing golf is playing
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2013, 03:26:26 PM »
Urban Meyer isn't the most likable guy but at least he can coach. Brady Hoke should go back to Ball State.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The best part about playing golf is playing
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2013, 03:50:21 PM »

Urban Meyer isn't the most likable guy but at least he can coach. Brady Hoke should go back to Ball State.

Terry,

Please delete this and post it on the college football thread.

Thanks


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