[Mike Hogan]

Here Is the Biarritz at Piping Rock

The bunker in front replaces Cavern?

From behind looking back

[Jim Nugent]

 I had the opportunity to play St Louis last week, and I just got to thinking of the original biarritz, and how it was more similar to the eden hole at St. Louis (3rd) than the actual biarritz (2nd).

The Eden at SLCC has a small pond, and it's set lower than than the tee or green, but it never seemed like much of a chasm to me.  If that is how the original chasm hole looked, it was nowhere near as impressive as it sounds today.  

I think it isn't now it looked, though, and probably was closer to #16 at CPC than #3 at SLCC.  That's also a big difference between the chasm hole (I think) and #9 at Yale.  Yale also crosses a pond, but that seems like a pretty far cry from crossing part of the ocean.  Another reason I wonder if the original Biarritz had a Biarritz green.  I'm pretty sure, e.g., I would not want to see a Biarritz green at CPC 16.  

[Rich Goodale]

My understanding is that 16 CPC was meant to be a heroic short par-4 with a tee (still existing as far as i know--I used to sit there with friends and a jug of pina coladas watching the Crosby in the mid-late 70's....) 50+ feet back and to the left of today's tee up into the woods.  I'm pretty sure that Marion Hollins talked Dr. MacK out of that idea by showing him that it would be better, and more tempting from today's 220 tee, by driving the chasm herself.....

[Patrick_Mucci]

Rich,

I've never believed that story.

The weather, wet air, carry, along with the ball & equipment circa 1928 make that story a romantic myth.

[Tom_Doak]

Nigel-Was Chicago GC Macdonald's first Biarritz?

Definitely not.  The 3rd hole wasn't in the 1895 plan, it was added by Raynor in 1925.

Good question which was the first?  It could be the 5th at North Shore ... although that is "Raynor" not "Macdonald".  I guess Piping Rock was the first "Macdonald" version.

[john_stiles]

I have some recollection that Bahto mentioned the first was at Piping Rock.

Based on Scotland's Gift, and the ideal 18 holes, it was suggested by the 12th at Biarritz, making sharp hog back in middle of course, and would be 210 yards.

[V. Kmetz]

I think of the several Biarritz holes I've experienced, the one that 'feels' closest to a Chasm shot as described in the old photos, accounts, paintings and historical discussions is the 5th at Fisher's Island. It may not be the "best" but it is one of the most scenic and for me, the most frightful when played from a 200+ distance.

The real "terror" of the carry is truly felt on that shot, the terrain is glacial, rocky and craggy and the salt air of the Atlantic to the right well mimics what I know of the Chasm Hole.

The funny thing playing is I kind of prefer playing the flatter, inland style of Biarritz hole; I like to try and execute the low, skipping, bounding shot without the peripheral fear of water.  Yet the Biarittz that incorporates the fundamentals absorbed from the Chasm hole are undeniably more scenic and thrilling to behold.

There's no ardent Golfer/GCA'er who hasn't played the 9th at Yale or 5th at Fisher's without being truly impressed.

cheers

vk

[Patrick_Mucci]

VK,

I think you're right, it would be hard for a "golfer" not to be seriously impressed by the architecture, hole and playing demands presented by those two holes.

John Stiles,

Interesting, but, a "hog back" is the inverse of the trench found on CBM's/SR's/Banks's Biarritzs.

[john_stiles]

Pat,

I could not find an adequate image of the 12th at Biarritz so it has always been a bit confusing.

Maybe CB wrote one thing and meant the other.  

But, I would go with what he built rather than what he wrote.

John

[Patrick_Mucci]

John,

I'd agree, especially since what he built was consistent in terms of configuration

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