News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Don_Mahaffey

How loud should we speak up?
« on: November 24, 2013, 08:59:20 PM »
Why don’t we fight harder for what we know to be right?

Example #1. It is often said that golfers demand lush and green, and even though we know a dry golf course is vastly more fun to play, we keep most of our courses slow and soggy because the “market” demands it. Problem is, golfers actually hate a wet course. No one, NO ONE, likes mud on their ball. But, ask any golf course expert and they will tell you that the general public demands a bright green golf course. Problem is, we all know a dry course plays better, yet we in golf continue to excuse wet conditions by blaming the “market”.

Example #2. Ask any golf architect and they will tell you irrigation costs have gotten stupid high. They all know we are over doing it. Yet, like example 1 above, the market takes the blame. There is no reason at all for a 4 hour watering window, no reason at all to design a system based on the hottest week in the last five years; yet, we continue to see more, more, more.  What we have is an industry that has done a very good job of getting in the superintendent’s ear. Whenever a new system is going in I hear comments like “Now is the time to spend the money”, or “let’s do it right,” all code for spend more. The manufacturers have done an outstanding job directing superintendents and managing consultants.
If you try and get someone to look at actual data instead of just going with industry standards, you are fighting an uphill battle. As long as this goes on you’ll never convince me money in golf is all that tight. All across America old irrigation systems are failing, yet rather than do something sensible, most are pushed into “doing it right” or can’t afford to do anything at all because they are convinced that all golf irrigation starts at 7 figures.

Example #3. Someone I know has a golf design commission. Don’t bother guessing as the course hasn’t been built yet and you’ve never heard about it. It is a great water front site, but a bit constrained in the area the clubhouse must be located. The owner had a land planner do a routing. To say it was bad is being kind. Using the same area, my friend suggested changes that not only made the course miles better, he also came up with a slightly better site for the clubhouse. I thought it was genius, the operator, already brought on by the owner, felt the short hike from 18 green to the club house (150 meters or so) was a major problem. The operator’s solution was a horrible uphill 18th and a very poor 1st hole, all in the name of the “market”.  
You’ll have to take my word on the example above, but examples of bad architecture being driven by people who have no business directing architecture decisions are numerous. How many architects are willing to stand their ground and not rubber stamp owner or green committee direction? I recently visited a course that has multiple bunker and tee styles, all done by different architects, each of whom had been hired by a different green chairman. I don’t know how you fix that, but it was sad to see.
Why is there so much bad architecture at lower level courses? The AGCSA will say it is because not enough courses hire a qualified architect, and while there is certainly some truth to that, there is also a lot of bad work being done, and no one is calling it out.

Example #4. Golf is a walking game. Yet, no one really means that anymore. We are not attracting and retaining younger golfers. Our young “outdoorsy” types look at golf as a game for old men in funny colored pants. Some golf courses are trying to have a dual business of golf course and fitness center. Oh the irony; work out then grab a cart and play a quick 9. This is my most farfetched example, but I believe we need more adventurous courses that aren’t so focused on conditioning. And that adventurous approach should have a fitness angle. We are letting the golf cart ruin our game and our courses. Short term profits maybe, long term health, I don’t see it.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 09:41:24 PM by Don_Mahaffey »

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How loud should we speak up?
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2013, 09:18:51 PM »
It is not so much how loud you speak as how much patience you have for results. I am content to know that turf fans will be off the face of golf in ten years. Some smaller battles are won much quicker. I can not describe the joy that I am experiencing reading the non photo thread concerning Olympia Fields. The key is define victory within our individual budgets and locale.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How loud should we speak up?
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2013, 09:39:28 PM »
Gee Don, now that you got that off your chest....  ;) ;D

I think the root cause to all of your points, and your use of the word "market" probably means, 'marketing'.  I think of it as conditioning the consumer and inculcating the ubiquitous theme of our times, which is; 'more is better'.  Imaging the golf lifestyle invariably uses lush green landscape images of an ideal to sell the golfer on playing courses, and also peer group conditioning to stimulate golfers in acquiring all the acutrement and mufti that go with it.  Clubs, cloths, club lifestyle, all of it is imaged and marketed as a false ideal.  We as consumers are being bombarded with these constant imaging and conditioning advertisements, and many cultural things we don't even recognize as 'marketing'.  But, the bombardment is there in everything we do.  And, underlying it is the creation of a thirst to have all the cool stuff.  Play the best clubs, the most desirable courses, wear the best clothes, and think like what they try to hoodwink us is thinking like the elite and cool society.  So, it all becomes conventional wisdom to seek the excessive because it must be the best - whether in course idealized conditions, over the top design, and all the amenities.  All of it plays on the human need to seek and be accepted at all costs.

Sometimes, given how much marketing is being thrown at us 24/7 I wonder that we aren't even more F'd up in skewed values.    
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: How loud should we speak up?
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2013, 09:43:45 PM »
Why don’t we fight harder for what we know to be right?

It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.
Upton Sinclair

Don:

Most people are afraid to fight the status quo ... especially nowadays, when jobs are few and far between.  

They are afraid of losing the job to another architect if they don't acquiesce to whatever the developer or consultant suggests.

They are afraid to argue down the "standards" of modern construction, because somebody will criticize them and it may cost them a job down the road.  Plus, the key point, most people will never waste their breath trying to save OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY.

Also, sadly, because times are tough, a lot of people in this industry are trying to milk every job for everything they can get.


Grant Saunders

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How loud should we speak up?
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2013, 10:05:12 PM »
Don

Regarding example 1, I think "the market" has become  the number one crutch for the modern day super. Its way to easy to justify just about anything by pointing to the apparent demands of golfers/clubs. Most supers are always up for a good old dick measuring contest.

Steve Okula

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How loud should we speak up?
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2013, 01:27:03 AM »
I need to support my family with my job as a GCS. I can tell you that my members don't like brown grass. It has nothing to do with marketing, or irrigation system salesmen, and everything to do with customer service. If my members want green fairways, it's my job to give them, not an argument, but green fairways, or they'll find someone who will.

The exact same situation goes on the six or so courses I've consulted at in the past few years. I've been called in when owners considered the brown spots on the golf course to be a problem, (and they are a problem for a business trying to make a profit when customers go else where for the product they desire).  Mainly, these were dry areas that needed more irrigation. Some supers have saved heir jobs by watering more, I've witnessed it first hand.

Further, why this false choice betwen "firm and fast" or mud? No one asks for mud either. A steak does not hve to be either raw or well done, medium rare is nice, and grass does not need to be brown to play firm.

I hate to say it, because everyone always says the same thing, but Tom Doak is right. Architects can't "dumb down" the specs or someone else hungry for work and unethical will criticize him for not strictly adhering to USGA recommendation, or lacking triple row irrigation, or whatever, and steal the work away. This is another event I've witnessed personally.
The small wheel turns by the fire and rod,
the big wheel turns by the grace of God.

Don_Mahaffey

Re: How loud should we speak up?
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2013, 07:24:58 AM »
Steve, I hear you, and yes there is a mid point between mud and brown. I like the term "lean and green".
It's lush golf courses that I'm against and I think you know exactly what I mean. Lean and green is beautiful and what's nice about that look is when something does go off a bit due to dry weather, it doesn't stand out as starkly as a brown spot on a lush course. Problem with lean and green is it takes superior green keeping. It is oh so easy to say, my members demand green so I over water and over fertilize and over spray instead of presenting a lean golf course that while green, isn't glossy green. A golf course that can handle a little stress and doesn't need constant chemical remedies. I know much of that is theory, and maybe not your reality, but what I see is more lush courses and more intense maintenance as a result of that push for the lush look. Good supers keep it lean and green.

As for my comments regarding less irrigation, it is not about "dumb down". Quite the opposite in  my opinion. I'm not talking about less coverage. just less stuff. The measures we use to grade and schedule irrigation systems are out dated and designed for over irrigation. Equilateral spacing with individual head control and using soil moisture for scheduling is all we need.  That is not a dumb down approach to irrigation. But do just that and don't put in "enough" heads or pump and you'll be accused of cutting corners or dumbing down. You want to see real push back, try putting in a less hp pump station with different sized motors to save energy and cut operational power costs. Our pump manufacturers are cookie cutters and it isn't being done to cut costs. But I'm sure they are using sustainable processes.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 07:27:35 AM by Don_Mahaffey »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: How loud should we speak up?
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2013, 08:06:40 AM »
I hate to say it, because everyone always says the same thing, but Tom Doak is right. Architects can't "dumb down" the specs or someone else hungry for work and unethical will criticize him for not strictly adhering to USGA recommendation, or lacking triple row irrigation, or whatever, and steal the work away. This is another event I've witnessed personally.


Steve:

I certainly did not mean to imply that I approve of architects just saying nothing, and going along with over-designed systems.  Quite the contrary -- I believe it's our job as the owner's representative to recommend what we think is the best value for money.  That's why I get into a lot of disagreements with irrigation designers.  It's also why irrigation designers buy other golf course architects lunches and dinners, to explain the reasons why the Cadillac irrigation system is "the best value for money" in their view ... and perhaps share a story or two about some architect who lost work for recommending less.

So if you think all those golfers are right to demand things green and not brown -- AND if you are sure that your client can afford to cater to those demands -- then you shouldn't be losing any sleep over catering to their wishes.  By the same token, if you're going to do your job based on the possibility of someone else taking it away, don't discount the possibility that eventually someone will come along and tell your client that you've been wasting his money because you were taking the easy way out.

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How loud should we speak up?
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2013, 08:14:38 AM »
It is not so much how loud you speak as how much patience you have for results. I am content to know that turf fans will be off the face of golf in ten years. Some smaller battles are won much quicker. I can not describe the joy that I am experiencing reading the non photo thread concerning Olympia Fields. The key is define victory within our individual budgets and locale.

How very true.

I'm content that in my little world I'm doing everything possible to bang the drum. And that really is all I can do.
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Steve Kline

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How loud should we speak up?
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2013, 08:42:08 AM »
I make all my money from selling advertising. We always say it is much easier to get someone to move their advertising from another magazine to ours but it is almost impossible to convince them to start advertising when they don't advertise at all.

It is not terribly difficult to shift someone's thinking from this chemical or that or from this irrigation system or that, but to get them to completely change their own philosophy is very, very difficult. A sales peron (all architects are in sales - really aren't we all) is wasting their time trying to change people's ideas. It's better to just sell them what they want with a few tweaks to make things better.

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How loud should we speak up?
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2013, 08:48:48 AM »
How loud should we speak up?

Very loudly.

How should we speak out, not only loudly but, effectively?

We need leadership on this issue.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How loud should we speak up?
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2013, 08:53:11 AM »
How loud should we speak up?

Very loudly.

How should we speak out, not only loudly but, effectively?

We need leadership on this issue.

And that leadership needs to be the highest profile courses in the world.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Rees Milikin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How loud should we speak up?
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2013, 09:06:05 AM »
If ANGC went to back to their roots, I think it would change a lot of perceptions.  ANGC is considered the ultimate golf course to the general public and if the ultimate golf course changed, I think opinions might change.

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How loud should we speak up?
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2013, 09:24:42 AM »
Naturally I disagree with loudly. Loud is what whims of the day do. Quietly going about your business, with the satisfaction that comes from knowing, is the way to go. Otherwise, you run the risk of being too busy to give every job the thoughtfulness to which you've made your name.

After all, You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make them think.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How loud should we speak up?
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2013, 09:48:14 AM »
Naturally I disagree with loudly. Loud is what whims of the day do. Quietly going about your business, with the satisfaction that comes from knowing, is the way to go. Otherwise, you run the risk of being too busy to give every job the thoughtfulness to which you've made your name.

After all, You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make them think.

Spot on, pun included.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How loud should we speak up?
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2013, 10:09:36 AM »
Don,
Agree... TD mentioned a few days ago on a thread that maybe , just maybe, golf was never meant to be a business, or make a profit or something along those lines....he's right.
But to make your ideas work we have to acknowledge one thing:: There are two "golfs".  I am more convinced of that today than ever before.  

One golf is the private "non profit" based clubs, resorts and a few developments who are not profit driven.  The player at these places really has no idea what he is paying for a round of golf and if it were presented to him as a green fee he would refuse to play.  THIS TYPE OF GOLF GETS ALL THE HYPE AND IS SUBSIDIZED.  
The other golf is the average local course that has to make a profit and where the cost of a round of golf is placed right in front of the player.  

The big lie in the business is that the associations such as USGA really care about growing the game for these "profit" guys. They don't.  Supts and pros don't come out seeking jobs at these places.  Equipment vendors call on them if they happen to be in the area.   I've had two interesting discussions lately. The first was with a friend who is the PGA representative to a state golf association.  He said he was amazed at his first few meetings with the attitude the group had towards the clubs that were not the prominent private clubs in that state.  And there was no representation from this type of club either.  The other conversation was with a Toro distributor talking of how enthused he was with the used equipment market.  He basically told me that there were certain private clubs where the supt had a capital budget for new equipment and they were glad to sell such.  (From starting in that side of the business I have always known that not much money at all was made on the initial purchase of new equipment or irrigation BUT the parts business for the life of the machine was huge.  )  Club Boards would always approve the new equipment and the supts at such clubs were trained to allow for such in budgets.  HOWEVER, this distributor has found that there is a huge market for used equipment at a much cheaper price and yet a much much higher margin at these "profit" clubs.  He had never focused on that type of club before but now he has a direct campaign for such.  As you are aware ingenuity always comes from the small guy who has to "get it done".  The status quo just wants to make sure they don't rock the boat.
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Peter Pallotta

Re: How loud should we speak up?
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2013, 10:36:30 AM »
Contrary to the popular old saying, I've found that those who "can't" actually don't go into teaching; they strive after mid-level management positions instead, and then cozy up to the decision-maker and from there justify their own idiotic, banal, unimaginative and uninformed suggestions by positing some dull-witted and unsophisticated audience/people 'out there' who have to be satisfied with lowest-common-denominator-type product.  The best approach is not to debate them or even to disagree with them (since they don't have any convictions to argue against), but to ignore them completely.  Easier said than done, I know.  

Peter
« Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 11:08:02 AM by PPallotta »

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How loud should we speak up?
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2013, 10:43:10 AM »
Don,

The most effective way we can speak up is with our wallets.  I quit my old club in part because it was too lush.  I got tired of hitting a solid drive that got no roll and having to hit a steady diet of rescue club and fairway wood approaches and lofted shots around the green.  The course looked like you could eat a sashimi dinner off the fairway, but at the cost of a lot less fun and a lot more money (god knows what chemicals would be on the fish!).  So I quit the overpriced overwatered club and joined a national club who's down with brown.  Some of this is obviously due to climatic and soil differences, but as mentioned there's green and then there's GREEN.  As long as there's a full membership who pride themselves on having their course look more like a lawn and garden spread than a golf course and are willing to pay for it nothing will change.  It's up to us, and particularly those of us here who are supposedly more enlightened, to speak up loudly, with our hard-earned cash.  
« Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 10:48:37 AM by Jud T »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Steve Okula

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How loud should we speak up?
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2013, 11:23:37 AM »
Steve, I hear you, and yes there is a mid point between mud and brown. I like the term "lean and green".


A case in point; look at the photos from Pine Valley in Philip Gawith's recent thread. That turf is a green as could be, not a brown spot anywhere, yet no one on this forum has dared to criticize it for being too soft.
The small wheel turns by the fire and rod,
the big wheel turns by the grace of God.

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How loud should we speak up?
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2013, 11:38:53 AM »
Don,

Most of the time:

An architect who designs "less" is not going to get paid "more".
An irrigation designer who designs "less" isn't going to get paid "more".
A superintendent who grooms/waters/fertilizes/etc. "less" isn't going to get paid "more".

You get the idea. Many times, doing less is the right thing. But, the basic human instinct isn't to pay more for less, even of it presents a superior product. People who do more often do it for more money. In many ways, that's why I think the universities and associations push for doing more to courses instead of providing solutions that could cost less.

There's no money in doing less.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Stephen Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How loud should we speak up?
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2013, 11:40:24 AM »
Don,

I don't know how much credibility the ASGCA has or maybe I should say should have. I have seen some recent work done by a former President of the ASGCA and this particular individual has never designed a course that I have seen that is halfway decent. Now he does a big reno job for big money (Over $4 Million) and the course got taken to the cleaners. It is so sad to see the wastefulness and lack of design integrity from someone who was the President of such an association. Doesn't give me much confidence in the ASGCA to be honest.

Steven Blake

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How loud should we speak up?
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2013, 12:25:22 PM »
Joe,

Your observation about superintendents assuming they will get paid less for less inputs is a good one, however if as a superintendent you are able to save your golf club $ in water, fertilizer, and chemicals people ought to look at that and say that is a huge improvement.  I would hope people would look at that and say the superintendent is creating value by finding ways to save and still provide great conditions.  

Unfortunately a majority of golfers like green grass. The superintendent is at the mercy of providing what his/her members want…. If you can provide green and firm that might be ok but any brown or purple or orange grass they despise and wonder why the superintendent isn't taking care of the course.

Steve Jobs said this, “It isn’t the customers job to know what they want.”

Maybe thats the approach we need to take….

Don,

We need A LOT of leadership on this issue for a number of reasons: 1) economics 2) playability 3) environmental 4) architectural intent 5) increase in fun by having more options with shots particularly around the green 6) better and healthier turf 7) more enjoyment by seniors and women 8) sustainability of the game as a whole ... and the list can go on and on.  

The only real con in the minds of golfers is color. Green=good ... and thats very sad in my opinion! Even though i mentioned all the positives above, the color of green grass trumps all 8 positive points.

The USGA has gotten more proactive on this issue however more must be done. The PGA tour, PGA of America, GCSAA and other organizations must do a better job of promoting less is more. I understand that narrative does not always fit what chemical companies and salesman want to hear but its good for the game as a whole.

Perhaps a grassroots organization is needed to put out more propaganda about the benefits of this type of “conditioning.” What we need is a group of diverse people to head up this group like superintendents, architects, owners, PGA pros, golfers and university types could join in the effort.  Passionate people about the game of golf, its future and going back to the past to find the answers is where we ought to start.  We might make some chemical companies mad but what the hell!!  

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How loud should we speak up?
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2013, 12:25:31 PM »
Don,

the question on being "called out" for bad work is always an interesting one.  It's not that magazines and this website don't do it, even if you think the magazines are in too much with advertisers, and they go easy on courses.

Certainly, and I would love to see some stats on this, golfers do vote with their wallets.  I know "we" would say THEY don't know enough about what they are talking about to rate any course.  But, they do it anyway, even if its by criteria you listed as wrong above.

I would say in general, its true that most of the worst courses are designed by lesser qualified architects, or none at all.  I do agree that I don't agree that all ASGCA (or others) work is equal.  Like any architect, I see certain stuff and wonder how architect X could keep making the same mistake over and over again.  I mean, one bad course is certainly possible, given the criteria you listed above, but when you see several, you have to think its a lesser talented architect.

I was speaking with one (non ASGCA, not that this matters) who admitted to me that every one of his courses had a few bad holes because he didn't get paid enough to really struggle through the routing.  Whatever he came up with in a few days is what they got.  I have never been that type of architect.....most of us are the type that takes low fees AND routes and designs to make it as good as we can.....

I recall a landscape architecture lawsuit, which was basically brought because the owner didn't like the design.  How exactly do we police an owner not liking the final product?  I would guess that most suits would be brought against lesser architects, for fear a rich one would battle harder, although, the rich one would also have more to go after.  What might really happen is they go against the contractor, who with experience of 100's of golf courses under their belt, "should have known" the cheap architect they hired wouldn't produce an acceptable job.....

An extreme story, to prove a point that design is subjective and much more so than your original post which posits in black and white extremes.  I don't think there is a single answer.

I once answered your question in a seminar with the pithy "I'll speak out when my last kid is out of college."  Got a great laugh.  Now, with my youngest in the 11th semester of sophomore year, I may get a chance to test that theory out very soon!
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How loud should we speak up?
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2013, 12:57:34 PM »
Don,

Most of the time:

An architect who designs "less" is not going to get paid "more".
An irrigation designer who designs "less" isn't going to get paid "more".
A superintendent who grooms/waters/fertilizes/etc. "less" isn't going to get paid "more".

You get the idea. Many times, doing less is the right thing. But, the basic human instinct isn't to pay more for less, even of it presents a superior product. People who do more often do it for more money. In many ways, that's why I think the universities and associations push for doing more to courses instead of providing solutions that could cost less.

There's no money in doing less.

Joe

Between Grandpa Joe's post and Steve Blake's reply, is the path I believe the answer lies.  The catalyst to change lies in the basic value and ethic that the consumer retains.  If the uninformed perception of the golf consumer on the levels of golfer-player, or management of facilities, or club administration continues to believe 'more is more' and 'green is better', then all the rest is futile.  So, as Mr. Blake says, it requires leadership over marketing to inculcate a shifted ethic to 'less can be more with good leadership and management'.  Those paying the bills and consuming the products aren't going to change their consumerism habits without leadership. Leadership always comes with risks.  
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How loud should we speak up?
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2013, 12:59:35 PM »
Mike Young wrote:  "One golf is the private "non profit" based clubs, resorts and a few developments who are not profit driven.  The player at these places really has no idea what he is paying for a round of golf and if it were presented to him as a green fee he would refuse to play.  THIS TYPE OF GOLF GETS ALL THE HYPE AND IS SUBSIDIZED."

Mike-
I'm not sure what you mean by the highlighted part.  I belong to a pretty typical "country club" in a major metropolitan area, and I try to avoid thinking about my per-round cost when I can avoid it, especially when it's winter.  Indeed, I am certainly well aware that my per-round cost is pretty high -- but I also seriously doubt it's "subsidized" by anything other than my monthly dues checks.   (If anything, those checks probably subsidize our F&B, tennis and pool operations, rather than the other way around.).  I'm happy paying more because I'm getting something of value--the club is a lot closer to my house than any public course of comparable quality; I can always play weekend mornings in less than four hours; there's a pool, tennis courts and other things for the non-golfers in my family; I've got a regular group of guys I enjoy playing with; and, yes, the course is usually in better condition than public courses around here.


Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back