[Niall C]

Are there any triple greens out there ? I presume there must be as the world of golf is such a big place but I've never come across any. Played plenty of double greens in Scotland including TOC, St A New, Balcomie, Duff House, Cardross, Hopeman etc however yet to play a triple green.

The reason I ask is there are 3 greens adjacent to each other at Killermont which I reckon would lend themsleves to being merged into one large triple green. The 8th plays at 90 degress to the 13th which plays at 90 degrees to the 15th with the greens located around a central oak/elm (?). Each green is at a slightly different level so you could have them cascading down around the tree with the 8th stepping down into the 13th which would step down to the 15th. It will never happen of course,as apart from the safety issues that they already have to contend with, the course is Old Tom's last 18 holer and I doubt Glasgow Golf Club would sanction such a thing.

Nevertheless there must be examples elsewhere. Any gca's on here attempted it ?

Niall

[Pete_Pittock]

The North Course at the Reserve Vineyards in Aloha, OR was designed with a triple green by Robert Cupp. The main portion of the green services the 8th (mostly unreachable par 5) and the 17th (long par 4) both plaiying north to south. A large lake fronts the green, but both greens are open on edge (left side of #8, right side of #17. The first hole approaches an elevated rear tier. It is a reachable par 5 coming from east to west.  They have now changed mowing patterns and it is now two separate greens, # 1 now separated from 8/17.

While it is now 1/8/17, it used to be 8/10/17 under the original routing. There are tqo other double greens on the property.

[Tom_Doak]

Tbere is (or used to be) a triple green at a course in Florida -- I think it was at a place called Turnberry Isle.  They would advertise it all the time.  EDIT - Can't see any sign of the triple green on their web site.  But, a quick Google check revealed Greg Norman's Great White course at Doral as having "the only triple green in South Florida." 

I could never figure out how it worked to have three greens connected side-by-side at a Florida course with golf carts -- how do you get the carts out of the hole in the middle?

[Neil_Crafter]

Tom, I think they would have to be joined two at the top and one at the bottom to get access working to each green rather than three in a row.

[Joel_Stewart]

I've never seen or heard of a triple green.  There are numerous double greens, the 9th at Pine Valley comes to mind.  It seems that they can be used in different forms like summer/winter.  Los Angeles CC has the 2nd hole which can play as a par 4 or the new green can play as a par 5.

Does a triple green serve any meaningful purpose or is it just a novelty?  Seems like it might be a weakness of the architect who can't make a decision or has such a great piece of property that 3 greens sites fit the land?

[Tom_Doak]

I've never seen or heard of a triple green.  There are numerous double greens, the 9th at Pine Valley comes to mind.  It seems that they can be used in different forms like summer/winter.  Los Angeles CC the 2nd hole can play as a par 4 or the new green can play as a par 5.

Does a triple green serve any meaningful purpose or is it just a novelty?  Seems like it might be a weakness of the architect who can't make a decision or has such a great piece of property that 3 greens sites fit the land?

Joel:

We are talking about greens for different holes connected together -- one-upping the double greens of St. Andrews.

I think I did hear of a hole that had three different optional greens a few years back -- maybe at Jim Engh's course at Reynolds Plantation?

[Matthew Sander]

Hillcrest CC in Batesville, IN has a (sort of) triple green. The first hole essentially has two different greens, an upper green and a lower green. They are connected to the 8th green. The 8th green and lower 1st green have no separation. The 8th green and upper 1st green are only separated by a slope cut to collar height. Here are a couple of photos that will give you an idea...





In this photo, the flag in the foreground is the hole location at the 1st hole for the day. The upper 1st green lies just above the lower green, and the 8th green is on the right.




When I get a chance I might try to post an overhead view.

[Tom Yost]

Cave Creek municipal golf course in Phoenix AZ (AJ Snyder) opened in 1984 with a triple green shared by holes 1, 5 and 10.   Some years later, they began maintaining it as three separate greens.

[Adam Lawrence]

I've never seen or heard of a triple green.  There are numerous double greens, the 9th at Pine Valley comes to mind.  It seems that they can be used in different forms like summer/winter.  Los Angeles CC the 2nd hole can play as a par 4 or the new green can play as a par 5.

Does a triple green serve any meaningful purpose or is it just a novelty?  Seems like it might be a weakness of the architect who can't make a decision or has such a great piece of property that 3 greens sites fit the land?

Joel:

We are talking about greens for different holes connected together -- one-upping the double greens of St. Andrews.

I think I did hear of a hole that had three different optional greens a few years back -- maybe at Jim Engh's course at Reynolds Plantation?

Yes - the eighteenth hole at the Creek Club has three alternative greens.

Have never come across a triple green either.

[Adrian_Stiff]

A triple green could work if was approached from three different 120 degree angles, or the tuning fork wherby you had two holes running alongside aka 9/18 at Dubai (this was done at a lot courses circa 1990+) And then another hole approached from 180 degrees. A double tuning fork could yield a quadruple green! Which is twice as stupid.

[Jeff Shelman]

Edinburgh USA, a RTJ Jr. course in Brooklyn Park, has kind of a triple green.

Shaped kind of like a "L" there is a single green that serves as the 9th green, the 18th green and the putting green.

The putting green is where the two legs of the green come together.

[Richard_Mandell]

I built a triple green back in 2004 at a place called Blue Heron Golf Course in Stevensville, Maryland.  Blue Heron was owned by Queen Anne's County, Maryland and was a nine-hole executive course.  We came in and came up with a completely new eighteen holes utilizing some new property to the south of the original property.  They only built the new nine (plus two extra greens and tees, all on one side of a creek) and the old nine is still there as well.

Because of the lack of space, it was impossible to create three completely separate green complexes within this particular area of the course, but it was possible to create some common-use areas. The result was one putting surface that served three holes (all playing from different directions). The key to the feature’s success was not just in the routing of holes but also in creating enough elevation change between each putting surface (six feet) to develop enough safety buffer. The result is three completely isolated playing experiences on the same green.

The tenth hole plays is a short par four that approaches the green from the east and plays 336 yards from the backs.  The twelfth hole approaches from the north and is a par three of 118 yards. The fourteenth hole is a straight par four that approaches from the southwest and plays 325 yards long.

Here is an aerial view:



The 10th approach:



The 12th hole from the tee:



The triple green from the side of the 12th:



The 14th approach:

[Nigel Islam]

Richard that is really cool. I had to go to google maps to understand all that, but what a unique solution to a routing issue.

[Niall C]

Richard

Many thanks for posting that example. I would imagine one of the reasons it works is that the approach shots are likely to be shorter irons and therefore in theory less likely to stray. The issue at Killermont, setting aside the history issue, is that one of the holes is a driveable par 4. If they could magically add 50/60 yards on to the hole (which they can't) it might work but then the hole wouldn't be half as much fun.

Niall

[Richard_Mandell]

Niall,

You are correct that the triple green at Blue Heron works because of the short approach shots.  

I am not sure adding yardage to your driveable par four would be an answer to a safer solution regarding a possible triple green, though.  Depending on the distance of the hole, I am guessing that most shots are bouncing into the green at that point as opposed to a full iron of any sort at a certain trajectory.  The drives into the hole are low and would do less damage, if that makes sense.  A big concern about items like this is the safety liability, which is why I said a bouncing ball from 300 yards or so would be pretty tame if off-line, more of a nuisance than a danger.

The second shot, for the most part, sounds like it could be just a chip or a bump and run, therefore, I think that adding yardage wouldn't help at all and, like you said, not be as much fun. How long is the hole you are talking about?

[Niall C]

Richard

The hole (13th) is c.240/250 yards long. While the tee is slightly elevated so is the green and the ground is clay/heavy soil. The tee for the next hole is left of the green and about level with the back of the green while the tee for the 9th is to the right about pin high and the green for the 8th to the right also about level with the middle to back of the 13th green.

Any time I've been on I have bounced it on but there are a few as you might expect who can land it on. At the moment the tee on the left of the green is most at risk from those right handed golfers who manage to get a hook going. I've never heard of anyone landing on the 9th tee/8th green although I dare say its happened.

Niall

[Richard_Mandell]

Niall,

I am trying to find the course on Google Earth.  Is it on Thorn Road?

[Niall C]

Richard

If you put in "Rannoch Drive, Bearsden, Glasgow" that should get you there. The three greens in question are the ones immediately to the north of the clubhouse.

Niall

[Richard_Mandell]

Got it.  I was there, just not sure of it.  So tell me which hole is which and what the yardages are for each hole?  Which hole is going N-S and which one is going E-W and which one is going in the opposite direction (W-E).  Thanks.

[Niall C]

Richard

The hole running W-E is the 8th and is a short par 4, again with a raised green that is well defended. Generally players will hit irons or fairway woods for longer players and maybe driver or fairway wood for moderate hitters and that will get them within half wedge distance. The tee to the north of the 8th green is the 9th tee as you might expect. The hole coming the other way N to S is the 13th which is between 240/250 yards.

The tee for the 14th is partially obscured by the small group of tees to the right (north) of 15th green which is the hole that plays E-W. The 15th is a genuine 3 shotter for about 95% of the members and the average golfer would be hitting a short iron into that green.

As I said in an earlier post, there's no chance of making it into a triple green and probably no merit either other than as an artistic conceit.

Niall

[Richard_Mandell]

Niall,

Thanks for completing the picture on that for me.  I do wonder what Old Tom Morris would think about a triple green and would guess he wouldn't be too far against it.  After all, his home course had double greens so a triple isn't too far off, even if it is a parkland setting.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Given this thread was referenced in the double-green post, I thought I’d mention one triple green (no longer exists for around 25 years) that wasn’t just a gimmick:


Crail Balcomie used to have a triple green that was the 1st, the 12th and the old 10th which was a par-3 down the hill (since replaced at the other end of the course by the short 6th)…. This was designed out sometime in the 90’s but had been in existence for getting on 100 years.

[Tom_Doak]

Given this thread was referenced in the double-green post, I thought I’d mention one triple green (no longer exists for around 25 years) that wasn’t just a gimmick:


Crail Balcomie used to have a triple green that was the 1st, the 12th and the old 10th which was a par-3 down the hill (since replaced at the other end of the course by the short 6th)…. This was designed out sometime in the 90’s but had been in existence for getting on 100 years.

Ally:


I played Crail in 1982 and that did not register with me as a "triple green", though I will go back and look at my slides next week when I can.  It did register as a crazy, tight routing . . . and also great fun.

[Niall C]

I tell you what has just registered with me and that is that I started this thread in 2013 ! When it was referenced in the double green thread I recalled starting it but would have never have believed it was that long ago. Scary.


Niall

[Ally Mcintosh]

Given this thread was referenced in the double-green post, I thought I’d mention one triple green (no longer exists for around 25 years) that wasn’t just a gimmick:


Crail Balcomie used to have a triple green that was the 1st, the 12th and the old 10th which was a par-3 down the hill (since replaced at the other end of the course by the short 6th)…. This was designed out sometime in the 90’s but had been in existence for getting on 100 years.

Ally:


I played Crail in 1982 and that did not register with me as a "triple green", though I will go back and look at my slides next week when I can.  It did register as a crazy, tight routing . . . and also great fun.

Tom,


Be great if you have an old photo of this. I’m 90% sure that I am correct in what I’m saying although there is a small chance that my memory is playing tricks on me and one of the greens was not fully connected as I can’t remember how you moved from 12 green to 13 tees.

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