[Alex Miller]

Alex,
Ur right, T-LA is not a great course. As i was reading through the threads, lost track of the 'great' element.
Do differ on #1, though. Any ball in a road is an issue, even an entry road.

BTW, r u local in SoCal? If so, what is going on with T-LA? Is there ever a chance that place will turn a profit? How the hell does he keep his publics afloat?

Yes, and I played Trump LA when it was Ocean Trails (15 holes, did not play the original 18) and live not too far away. I haven't played it in over a year (and I've only ever gone out super twilight for a fraction of the normal fee), but my impression from a couple dinners and driving range days is that the course is probably only profitable after revenue from film/TV/commercial spots are considered (not to mention the restaurant and event-hosting). There is some play, and at $300 a round some cost is recouped, but I believe the staff and maitenance budget are both rather large. This is my outsider impression.

I think a good deal of the play comes from out-of-towners and businessmen who can expense the round. And since I've recognized the course in multiple commercials and a couple movies and TV shows (Entourage, Step Brothers) I'd imagine they do well frrom that too. Also weddings and a very good restaurant in a nice setting. Everything about the place is nice, but the course does not appeal to me nor am I the target demographic.

[Alex Miller]

I don't want to have led this thread astray.

Merion? Slice on #2, bladed approach to #10, duck hook off 14 or 15? These could all be considered danerous areas (less so 10).

[BCowan]

I talked to someone about cutting down trees by greens to get more sunlight, he said that the trees were used to protect next tee box.  So if the tee is behind the green do we need trees to protect from long shots or do we just need to say 4?  Have old gems become over managed or over thought?  I would love for more sun (firmer greens) and more wind patterns.  If one blades an iron, they yell 4 and the other guy takes cover.  

[Joey Chase]

I always think of Lahinch as well, but it is on a short list of courses I dream of joining.  The 1st and 18th at Brancaster as well as the 2nd and 17th are another pair.  I would leave it to others as to whether it is considered a great course. 

The first tee at Merion at lunch time can be harrowing if you have the propensity to heel shots!

[John Percival]

The bladed iron is a beheading monster from 80 yards, short from 200 and probably pin high from 160.

[Bill_McBride]

The best angle into the first green on the Old Course seems to be from the left, from a line toward the 17th green.  I'm thinking it could be dangerous walking off the Swilkin Bridge if somebody headed that way hits a pull hook.  Most likely the caddies keep an eye on that potential danger.  

[Thomas Dai]

A regrettable increasing trend in golf these days seems to be not calling 'fore' to an offline shot. If there are trees obscuring a sight of another hole the response of someone who has just been challenged for not calling 'fore' is often "I didn't see you". Turn this around. If there'd been no or less trees they would probably have seen you and thus shouted, plus you might have observed there play yourself. A generalisation maybe, but I'm sure you get the idea.
ATB

[Michael Felton]

Deal's 1st is fairly dangerous with the road on the 1st hole.

The first time I played in the Halford Hewitt, it was a nice day and there must have been 40-50 people out on the balcony of the clubhouse. Someone hit their drive off the 1st and it landed on the road, bounced up, landed on the balcony, hit the wall right beside the club crest, came back down again and bounced again on the balcony before bouncing down via the path outside onto the putting green. All that happened and no one batted an eyelid. I suspect half of them were blissfully unaware that it happened and some of them would not have been aware even if it had hit them right on the head.

Crossing the main road at Walton Heath between 1 and 2 on the Old and walking to the 1st on the New can be quite dangerous. Cars drive really fast down that road and there's a blind dip a couple of hundred yards down the road from the 1st green. More than once I have had to dash to get across or I would have been clattered.

[Jim Sherma]

The approach is steeply uphill.  Even with a following wind, when the hole is very reachable in two, the only way to play the second is to land just short of the green.  A ball may well, if the approach is misjudged, roll to or past the flag on 8 but I have never seen a ball carry anywhere near halfway to the 8th flag.  You might get hit by a rolling ball but it's not dangerous in any real sense of the word.  I have never heard a member suggest there's any danger there.  Indeed, if there is a dangerous spot on Balcomie, the 11th and 12th fairways,  the 14th green, 15th fairway and 16th tee are all better candidates!

Mark - I'll aaccept that dangerous might not necessarily be the best term to describe what I was getting at. Parallel fairways and tight routings will always allow for the chance to be hit by a ball, especially on an open course with no tree buffers between them. I guess I just kind of accept this risk and felt that the double green situation where the target has playing area immediately behind it as the less normal risk that is more architectural in nature.

By the way, I love Balcomie and consider it one of the two most magical spots to play golf that I've ever been, Dooks being the other. I could play either every day and always approach the course with a smile.

[Bill_McBride]

Deal's 1st is fairly dangerous with the road on the 1st hole.

The first time I played in the Halford Hewitt, it was a nice day and there must have been 40-50 people out on the balcony of the clubhouse. Someone hit their drive off the 1st and it landed on the road, bounced up, landed on the balcony, hit the wall right beside the club crest, came back down again and bounced again on the balcony before bouncing down via the path outside onto the putting green. All that happened and no one batted an eyelid. I suspect half of them were blissfully unaware that it happened and some of them would not have been aware even if it had hit them right on the head.

Crossing the main road at Walton Heath between 1 and 2 on the Old and walking to the 1st on the New can be quite dangerous. Cars drive really fast down that road and there's a blind dip a couple of hundred yards down the road from the 1st green. More than once I have had to dash to get across or I would have been clattered.

Agreed on the road at Walton Heath, but the most life-threatening road crossing I've ever seen is at Liphook, between the 14th green and 15th tee.  It's in the middle of a blind chicane around the supports of a railroad bridge and there's precious little notice that a speeding car is approaching.  Their lady captain was reportedly killed there some years ago.  

[Michael Felton]

Agreed on the road at Walton Heath, but the most life-threatening road crossing I've ever seen is at Liphook, between the 14th green and 15th tee.  It's in the middle of a blind chicane around the supports of a railroad bridge and there's precious little notice that a speeding car is approaching.  Their lady captain was reportedly killed there some years ago.  

Have you played Banstead Downs? I couldn't describe it as a great golf course, but there you twice have to cross the A217 (the mad mile) which is a dual carriageway with a speed limit of 70mph (used to be anyway - they've dropped it to 60). It's called the mad mile because it's a mile long and dead straight and stupid people race on it. Getting across that can add a few minutes to a round of golf. It's not that dangerous if you're sensible because you can see a long way up it, but if you get impatient after waiting for a gap, it can be very sketchy indeed.

[Roger Wolfe]

#18 at Roaring Gap.  There is an outdoor patio at green level across the cart path 20 feet from the back of the green.  The hole is 233 yards from the back tees and the wind often makes you have to hit driver.  Terrifying.

#15 and #18 at Palmetto Club.  #15 is a severely uphill drivable par 4 with a putting green and clubhouse to the right.  #18 has a driving range teeing area running along the left side of the fairway.  Blow it right on #15 and injure someone putting.  20 minutes later.. adjust... hook it left on #18 and finish him off while he hits balls on the range.

#9 at Mimosa Hills.  On a windy day with a 5 wood to a back pin that I blew 15 yards right I almost killed Billy Joe Patton (may he rest in peace).

[Mark Pearce]

Jim,

It's certainly true that there are few places on most courses where you are as likely to be joined by a ball from another hole.  All the more unusual when you are standing over a putt and a ball runs across your line!

Bill,

With Liphook you have a winner.  That is a seriously frightening road crossing.

[Sean_A]

Yes, Lippy is seriously dangerous!  But is it a great course?  

If we are going off the ranch and naming clubs randomly regardless of their quality, Berkhampsted has a few dangerous spots.  At #9 one drives over a blind, sunken road and I there must be tons of people who don't make the carry!  At #14, a road zooms in front of the tee.  The cars can be going 50mph so you could be in the middle of your backswing when a car comes!  Its absolutely crazy.  

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

Sean,

You'd have to hit an awful shot not to carry the road on 9 at Berkhamsted.  A shot that bad is unlikely to reach that road, which is substantially below you.

[Sean_A]

I have been known to duff tee shots!  Don't forget, the ladies tee requires a carry as well.  I wonder how many walk to the other side of the road and play from there?

Ciao

[Niall C]

Ally

As others have said it depends on your threshold for what makes a great course but Prestwick St Nich's is certainly a terrific course in my not so humble opinion. It's also the first course I played where upon paying the green fee the pro made a big play of advising me that I was now insured and that the ticket was my insurance certificate.

While the last few holes have some serious safety issues, mainly for non-golfers off the course it has to be said, the 6th hole (from memory) takes the prize. A short par 4 where you drive over a bund to a blind landing area just short of the green. Said landing area is also where you cross the fairway having driven from the next tee playing across the previous hole. A couple of houses and a public footpath impinging on the hole on the right hand side. All in all a frightening hole.

Played lots of holes with public roads and footpaths, blind areas, close to housing etc but nothing comes close to that hole.

Niall

[Bill_McBride]

Yes, Lippy is seriously dangerous!  But is it a great course?  

If we are going off the ranch and naming clubs randomly regardless of their quality, Berkhampsted has a few dangerous spots.  At #9 one drives over a blind, sunken road and I there must be tons of people who don't make the carry!  At #14, a road zooms in front of the tee.  The cars can be going 50mph so you could be in the middle of your backswing when a car comes!  Its absolutely crazy.  

Ciao

I have Liphook as borderline great, I do love those heathery courses. 

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