Are 'traditions' killing the traditional UK golf club?

[Duncan Cheslett]

Drive into the parking lot of any golf club in the UK and the first thing to confront you is an array of reserved parking spaces for club officials. While most regular golfers probably don't even notice or consider such an everyday sight, to the average man in the street they smack of privilige and elitism.  Why do we have them?

Tradition, and every other club has them.

Encounter the Captain at any golf club in the UK and he will be surrounded by toadying members addressing him as 'Mr Captain' or 'Skipper', even though last year and next year he will be called 'Mike'. While most regular golfers probably don't even notice such an everyday occurance, the average man in the street would consider this a nausea-inducing display of pseudo-masonic ritual. Why does it persist?

Tradition, and it is the same at every other club.

Somewhere prominant at every golf club in the UK is a sign insulting the reader's intellegence by dictating wht he can and cannot wear on the course and in the clubhouse - with clear attitudes of what is acceptable rooted in the 1960's. While most regular golfers probably don't notice such ubiquitous signs anymore, to the average man in the street the whole concept of a dress code in this day and age is ridiculous. Why do we still have dress codes?

Tradition, and it is the same at every other club.

I could go on...

Golf clubs are haemorraging members and have been for years. There is absolutely no sign that this trend is going to be reversed until the average man in the street can be attracted in. The average man in the street loves golf; he will go to his local driving range and hit balls; he will play with his pals at local munis or at clubs offering deals on TeeTimes.co uk, but he is not going to join a club.

My contention is that golf clubs are committing suicide by clinging on to their ridiculous and outdated traditions. All people really want these days is to play golf and maybe get a beer afterwards. Why can clubs not understand this and shed the elitist trappings of club membership that seem to serve merely as a comfort blanket for certain geriatric members and a barrier to new younger ones?

[Mark Chaplin]

Duncan does your average man in the street turn up at a wedding in jeans and sweatshirt?

I belong to a couple of clubs where membership is extremely healthy and members wish to retain tradition. I'm sure there are plenty of suitable clubs for the blue collar brigade to join, I could name at least 30 in Kent with no standards  

[Philip Gawith]

Duncan, i belong to two very traditional golf clubs. Neither has reserved parking spaces for club officers you will be pleased to hear! Both are in robust health by most standards. If I was the "czar" at these cliubs, to invoke a popular UK concept,  i would certainly make some changes. But it is puzzling that you should think that it is "tradition" that poses a great challenge to the sport. And that you should think there is some "one size fits all", anything goes, nirvana that represents a solution to declining membership. I doubt if there are any great clubs that do not have a strong sense of tradition and identity that binds them together.

All that said, i can certainly recognise some of the semi-masonic and gratuitously pompous rituals associated with golf clubs which are tedious and useless and off-putting. There is room enough in the golf world for the sort of club you describe and other clubs that are more traditional and thank goodness for the variety. If some of the useless stuff you reference was to disappear that would also be progress, but i am not sure "tradition" is the right word for it!

Philip

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Duncan, I don't believe golf clubs are "haemorraging members" on account of the traditions you have listed. The man (and woman) of the house has a lot more to do nowadays when it comes to the family and home (and rightly so for men!) than he did in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. Golf has to take second place to driving the children to football, gynamnastics, cricket, swimming, etc. Commuting times are longer, working times are longer; there simply isn't enough time to do everything, so golf is sacrificed. In my opinion, it's all down to the lifestyle we now lead. Times have changed.

[Thomas Dai]

I understand where Duncan is coming from with his various examples, amusing they are too, as there are quite a few 'traditions' as he calls them that that are off-putting, not just to potential members but to those who've been members of private members golf clubs for decades. Very slowly the 'traditions' are dropping away though, although admittedly, pace is very slowly.

And Mark is right about folk turning up for weddings in jeans and sweatshirts. We have wedding receptions and christenings at my club and there is always a wry look on members faces when they see folks attire when they arrive for these functions - less of the wry look, more one of alarm though, when they see ladies in high heels on the putting green or kids splashing around in the 18th hole bunkers when players are attempting to play their approach shots, but's that's another story for another day!

To me it's primarily the economy and being busy with other priorities that keeps the younger generation away from golf and golf clubs, the latter has always been the case, the former a bit more so in recent years. I don't see the traditions of the game/club or the dress code or the parking spaces or the 'Mr Captain' approach, as being major reasons for folk not joining clubs, although admittedly none of them help.

Some of the things that appeal to me, and I believe others, about the game are the traditions, the history, the etiquette, the sense of peace/quiet/serenity/tranquillity and the standards, and as standards in society slip, progress some may call it, one of the last places where standards are seemingly important is the traditional UK golf club.

As Philip very nicely says "There is room enough in the golf world for the sort of club you describe and other clubs that are more traditional and thank goodness for the variety."

All the best.

[Sean_A]

Duncan

I think many clubs have dropped some dress code traditions.  I agree, the parking space deal is stupid unless there is some sort of charity auction for a good spot.  Also, a few best spots close to the house and well lit should be reserved for workers.  Then women finishing after dark have it a bit better.  Generally though, as AA states, there is space for all types of clubs.  Though the one thing I realy like about an informal club is being able to get a drink immediately after playing.  No shoe changing, shower etc, drink first then take a view.  The Brits defienitely have this one backwards.

Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

I think that most clubs here do not have an over the top dress code most do allow jeans as long as they are presentable. As for the difficulty, many clubs overspend rather than not getting enough turnover. I do think there are many members who do not think they are a part of the club but then I have said that often enough before.

Jon

[David Kelly]

Traditions keep us from becoming fools even though they may sometimes make us look foolish.

[Mike Hendren]

Interesting how John Wesley's quadrilateral applies to so many situations.    His theory is that decisions should be based upon reason, tradition, experience and Scripture, with Scripture given the greatest weight.   Well, perhaps we should leave Scripture out of it.

Tradition should perhaps meet a reasonableness test and the members' experience in embracing it or eschewing it should be considered.  If Scripture is by chance to be considered I recommend 1 Peter 4:8.

Bogey

[William_G]

the "tradition" that I dislike most as a tourist to my ancestor's homeland is the restrictive play to certain tees irrespective of playing ability

however I do not believe traditions are killing traditional UK golf clubs, everything else is to blame for that

[Tim Martin]

You play 9 holes and then change into a coat and tie for a formal lunch. When finished you change back into your golf clothes and finish your round. You then change back into a coat and tie to have drinks and socialize. Is that correct?

[Mark Chaplin]

Brian at my first club dinner I didn't really know what to expect, then a senior member stood up and read the loyal greeting to to Her Majesty The Queen and the reply from Buckingham Palace followed by the loyal greeting to Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother and her  personally signed reply. I realised that a club's identity and culture can be a good thing, provided the members support it. Even our Irish and American members appear to enjoy the theatre! I wear black tie around 5 or 6 times a year for club dinners and always enjoy myself, as for presentable jeans, I don't even own a pair of jeans!!

[Scott Warren]

Count me among the masses who believe tradition and history are strong assets -  for a golf club, a business, for a relationship.

If some golf clubs need to become more common in an effort to survive, that's their prerogative. But a broad attempt to dumb-down the culture that surrounds the game of golf is something I would fight to resist.

I'm really not bothered with attempts to grow the game, especially if that comes at the expense of what makes it special.

Tim M,

The whole "coat and tie" thing is overplayed somewhat for effect. Very few clubs have it as much of a requirement anymore.

At Royal Cinque Ports we only require a jacket and tie in the formal dining room or after 11am in the Jack Aisher Room (the formal lounge).

You can get breakfast and lunch and enjoy a drink in the bar or on the balcony without changing from your golf clothes, and most members do.

[Tim Martin]

Count me among the masses who believe tradition and history are strong assets -  for a golf club, a business, for a relationship.

If some golf clubs need to become more common in an effort to survive, that's their prerogative. But a broad attempt to dumb-down the culture that surrounds the game of golf is something I would fight to resist.

I'm really not bothered with attempts to grow the game, especially if that comes at the expense of what makes it special.

Tim M,

The whole "coat and tie" thing is overplayed somewhat for effect. Very few clubs have it as much of a requirement anymore.

At Royal Cinque Ports we only require a jacket and tie in the formal dining room or after 11am in the Jack Aisher Room (the formal lounge).

You can get breakfast and lunch and enjoy a drink in the bar or on the balcony without changing from your golf clothes, and most members do.

Thanks Scott. Sounds good to me!

[Peter Pallotta]

What an interesting and thought-provoking thread for me, a garden variety average golfer of the North American kind. When I think of golf clubs over there, I think of looking at Tenby, and loving the style of the golf course, and then going to the website, and loving the feeling of the club, and then checking out the membership fees and being stunned by how sane and affordable they are. I'd happily wear a suit and tie -- even while actually playing golf -- and call all manner of people "Captain" for the bonus of playing the course and being a member at that price.

Peter

[JMEvensky]

What an interesting and thought-provoking thread for me, a garden variety average golfer of the North American kind. When I think of golf clubs over there, I think of looking at Tenby, and loving the style of the golf course, and then going to the website, and loving the feeling of the club, and then checking out the membership fees and being stunned by how sane and affordable they are. I'd happily wear a suit and tie -- even while actually playing golf -- and call all manner of people "Captain" for the bonus of playing the course and being a member at that price.

Peter

Those clubs might waive the coat/tie rule if you showed up with your sweater tucked in.

[jeffwarne]

What an interesting and thought-provoking thread for me, a garden variety average golfer of the North American kind. When I think of golf clubs over there, I think of looking at Tenby, and loving the style of the golf course, and then going to the website, and loving the feeling of the club, and then checking out the membership fees and being stunned by how sane and affordable they are. I'd happily wear a suit and tie -- even while actually playing golf -- and call all manner of people "Captain" for the bonus of playing the course and being a member at that price.

Peter

+1

though Tenby is pretty informal

[Peter Pallotta]

Jeff(s) - I'd like to think that the perennially stylish tucked-in-sweater-look works in both formal and informal settings!!

Peter

[David_Elvins]

Drive into the parking lot...

Duncan,

I couldn't agree with you less. The whole rationale behind forming or joining a club is so that you don't have to mix with or talk to the everyman in the street.  If you wanted to hang out with the everyman in the street, there is a place for that.  It's called a street.  If you want to hang out with like minded individuals who share your passion and values, you form or join a club.  

Once a club starts catering to the lowest common denominator it loses it's reason for existence.  

As for the car parking spots for president and captain, they are a great reminder to everyone in the club of all the hard work and volunteer labor the captain and president put into the club.  
  

[Ricardo Ramirez Calvo]

I come from an entirely different golfing environment than everyone else in this forum, but I entirely disagree with Duncan's views. In my opinion, tradition must be cherished as one of the main treasures of a Club. Money can buy many things: a course, a clubhouse, trophies, even memorabilia. But there is one thing that money can't buy: tradition. It is tradition that binds members of a club together. If there is one thing I truly envy about GB is the way they keep their traditions alive. In my country, tradition is despised as old fashioned, ridiculous and outdated. That is one of the main reasons why we have decayed so much.

[Duncan Cheslett]

I don't seem to have much support here, but I stand by my opinions. I am convinced that time will bear them out.

While maybe 10 - 20% of clubs - those with a 'name' course or with a particularly upmarket and traditionally-minded membership - may well continue to thrive operating on Victorian or Edwardian codes, the vast majority of clubs are already struggling to survive. It is these clubs to whom my comments are directed.

No, of course I wouldn't wear a sweat-shirt and jeans to a wedding. I might well however, wear a sweatshirt and jeans to the theatre or to a restaurant, and in all but the most snooty establishment I would be welcomed and feel comfortable. I would consider having a beer at my golf club to be more akin to a visit to the theatre or a restaurant  - or even a country pub - than going to a wedding.

My suggestion for a dress code is as follows;

Dress Code

XXXXXX GC does not operate a dress code as such, preferring to
entrust such judgements to our members, guests and visitors.

We would simply ask that consideration is shown to fellow golfers
and that all clothing is reasonably clean and tidy.

Treat people like adults and generally they will behave accordingly.

I really do not understand what a strict dress code has to do with 'standards'. A scoundrel in a suit is still a scoundrel. With whom would you rather share a beer, him or a perfect gentleman in jeans and a sweatshirt?

[Tony_Muldoon]

 Even Phillip added "All that said, i can certainly recognise some of the semi-masonic and gratuitously pompous rituals associated with golf clubs which are tedious and useless and off-putting."  However I'm not sure that any two members of a traditonal Club would agree on which bits were gratuitously pompous, hence where traditions are strong, evolution will be slow and on balance I'm in favour of that.


However for any club without a waiting list Duncan is correct.  My experience is that the majority of people I meet who are taking up golf do not wish to join a club and learn the culture of old.  



Chappers I've been meaning to have a word.  Two Saturdays ago I overheard some members in the bar openly talking about requesting 3 ball play in competitions.   I looked outside and the sky no longer looked quite so strongly fixed in place.

[Duncan Cheslett]

However for any club without a waiting list Duncan is correct.  My experience is that the majority of people I meet who are taking up golf do not wish to join a club and learn the culture of old.  

My point exactly.

90% of clubs have no waiting list or joining fee. They are on the knife-edge of survival yet have no idea of what their potential market actually wants.

[Sean_A]

It would be interesting to know the percentage of UK clubs operating in the black while still maintaining the course well and keeping the house in order.  I think Tony could be right.  I don't often visit the clubs which look to be struggling, but when I do, and some of these operate my favourite courses, I have to wonder what else can be done.  I don't think the clubs I have in mind are in the least snooty or are overbearing with rules.  Maybe we just have to face up to the idea of club shrinkage. 

I count myself lucky to be a member of club which has continued to make a profit and have a full membership through the recession.

Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

There seems to be a bit of a perception among some here that traditionally all clubs have had some sort of black tie dress code. This is simply not true and there has always been a diversity in what was expected. It is working clothes that were usually frowned up on but that was the same at most clubs and associations not just golf courses. If we are really so into tradition then ditch the range finders, buggies, electric trollies, etc.

Mark C, you will still be allowed on most courses up here even without jeans

Jon