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Scott Warren

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Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #75 on: December 02, 2013, 11:53:48 PM »
Scott,

I might classify # 13 green as open.

The fronting fairway helps direct the ball left, into the green

I tossed that one back and forward. The RHS does help the ball on and therefore I guess it's kinda 50/50, but to go for the centre or left of the green, it's really a must-carry shot.

But yeah, it's not cut-and-dried.


Patrick_Mucci

Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #76 on: December 03, 2013, 02:28:16 PM »
Scott,

So many times I've stood in the 13th fairway contemplating my approach when the pin is cut left of center.

When I was a good iron player, I used to go for it every time.

Now, I kid myself into going for it and aim for the right side of the green.

However, every now and then I hit a hard pull by accident with great results.

Everyone in my group thinks they were great shots.
Only I know that I yanked it 40 yards off line ;D

Brett_Morrissy

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Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #77 on: December 03, 2013, 03:42:03 PM »
Thanks Philip, Scott and Pat for your comments - i hope we can 'delve' into the responses a little further, alas no time today...
@theflatsticker

Tom ORourke

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Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #78 on: December 30, 2013, 08:56:25 PM »
The legend of PV would seem to be in its difficulty. Yet it is great fun to play. I believe a good player (single digit) can birdie any hole on the course. The first time I played it was from the white tees and I was one over after a perfect drive on #8, at which time I hit a sand wedge from 85 yards to a back pin, urging the ball to go in the hole. One big bounce later I was on my way to an 8. I ended up in bunkers where I could not even figure out what direction would be best. Unfair? Not really, just a bad break on a tough course. I also made another 8 in #13 on the way to 83. Anyone can make a hard golf course. One that is hard, but fun, and spectacular? Not so many. I think I can score better at PV than at a number of other courses but for me Merion and PV stand out as the hardest courses that you can go low on if you play well, or shoot a million if you play badly, and that is the primary way how I judge a golf course. They are both great exams mentally and physically. I have a book on the history of the course and the old pictures show just how many thousands of trees were taken out during construction and now you can see over the years how nature is coming back hard. There still is good width but at some point some pruning will probably need to be done.

Dan Boerger

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Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #79 on: December 31, 2013, 09:23:25 AM »
I suppose this could be a topic for a new thread: "My Bad Beat at Pine Valley". But, as long as Pat is mentioning the famed 13th hole, here's mine there ...

Hit a fine (for me at least) approach shot, almost pin high but just off the green in the fairway to the right. Very tight lie. Played a bump and run with a 9-iron. Caught it just a tad thin (and I mean a tad) ... bounces 2x before the pin and then picks up speed to land in the bunker other side of green. It seemed to take about 25 second to come to rest. Hello 7.

Upset? Not really ... as I've mentioned before, there a plenty of golfers who play Pine Valley better, but I don't think anyone appreciates the experience more than I do.

I've also never been on a course with better routing (IMO).
"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

Ari Techner

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Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #80 on: December 31, 2013, 09:48:15 AM »
With all the talk of Pine Valley not having a weak hole and every hole being a stand out I personally have trouble categorizing 12 in this way.  To me it is the one weak hole on this great course.  The tee shot is nothing at all special and does not really have any trouble for such a short hole.  I do like the green complex.  Good hole?  Sure but definitely not great and certainly not stand out.  

I also think Pine Valley plays much easier than it looks.  It is very wide off the tee.  My favorite part by far are some of the irregularly shaped greens with excellent contouring.   Definitely a special place.  

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #81 on: December 31, 2013, 01:14:14 PM »
Ari every time I've played 12 the pin has been front left of the green, is it a better hole when the pin is back? 9 isn't a standout hole on the front half, I've played both greens as well.

Scott 8 must be the hardest easy hole on the planet! I think the reason the caddies double bag is the right hand green is too small for eight people!
Cave Nil Vino

Scott Warren

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Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #82 on: December 31, 2013, 06:25:10 PM »
Mark, 12 is definitely a better hole with the pin back. Two reasons:

1. It makes driving long a much better pay as you get a look down the green.

2. With the ridge mid-green and downslope behind it, accessing a bank pin is a lot more challenging - a great rest of distance/spin control whether flying it back there or running it over the ridge.


Rob Curtiss

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Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #83 on: August 13, 2014, 12:24:14 PM »
The pictures are fantastic.

To associate it with another thread- you can definitely see similarities to The Dunes 9 hole course in MI.

Anyone know how to get tickets to the Crump Cup - I would love to just walk it and take it all in

Is it a first come - first serve kinda thing on sunday only at some parking lot or can you get tickets in advance?

Joe Bausch

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Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #84 on: August 13, 2014, 12:51:43 PM »

Anyone know how to get tickets to the Crump Cup - I would love to just walk it and take it all in

Is it a first come - first serve kinda thing on sunday only at some parking lot or can you get tickets in advance?

No ticket required to attend the Crump Cup.  In the past it costs 20 bucks per car to park in the nearby amusement center lot, then a school bus takes you over to the gates.  IIRC, the gates open at 1 PM.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Rob Curtiss

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Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #85 on: August 13, 2014, 12:55:25 PM »
Thanks Joe.

Will have to check it out. I would assume it gets pretty busy though.

Bill Crane

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Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #86 on: August 13, 2014, 01:01:30 PM »
Looks like evergreen trees between the 8th green/9th tee and the 18th fairway!!

 ;D

Wm Flynnfan
_________________________________________________________________
( s k a Wm Flynnfan }

Joe Bausch

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Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #87 on: August 13, 2014, 01:09:56 PM »
Thanks Joe.

Will have to check it out. I would assume it gets pretty busy though.

Believe it or not, no, it is never very busy.  I don't know if anyone keeps count on the attendance, but I'd be very surprised if it hits 4 digits.  Heck, last year I think it was a few hundred, tops.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Eric Strulowitz

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Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #88 on: August 13, 2014, 02:48:32 PM »
With all the talk of Pine Valley not having a weak hole and every hole being a stand out I personally have trouble categorizing 12 in this way.  To me it is the one weak hole on this great course.  The tee shot is nothing at all special and does not really have any trouble for such a short hole.  I do like the green complex.  Good hole?  Sure but definitely not great and certainly not stand out.  

I also think Pine Valley plays much easier than it looks.  It is very wide off the tee.  My favorite part by far are some of the irregularly shaped greens with excellent contouring.   Definitely a special place.  

Could not agree more.  I was very privileged to play PV and yes is was very wide off the tee.  I played very conservative, laid up probably more than I needed to, and broke 100, that was a big deal for me. 

Lost my connection to play their again, but would do it again in a heartbeat!

Dave McCollum

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Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #89 on: August 13, 2014, 04:41:26 PM »
I watched that old video of Nelson v. Littler  at PV linked at the start of this thread.  I was startled to hear the voice-over announcer talk about the Bermuda fairways.  That can’t be accurate for a northern course, can it? 

Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG

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Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #90 on: August 14, 2014, 06:41:15 AM »
Thanks Joe.

Will have to check it out. I would assume it gets pretty busy though.

Believe it or not, no, it is never very busy.  I don't know if anyone keeps count on the attendance, but I'd be very surprised if it hits 4 digits.  Heck, last year I think it was a few hundred, tops.

It's somewhat transient - spectators are in and out all day and not many stick around for the finish. When I worked there they had 2000-2500, although it never looked like that many. I haven't been there on a Crump Sunday afternoon in a while and haven't asked it that has changed.

I did have to kick some people having a picnic off 18 green one year......
Golf construction & maintenance are like creating a masterpiece; Da Vinci didn't paint the Mona Lisa's eyes first..... You start with the backdrop, layer on the detail and fine tune the finished product into a masterpiece

Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG

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Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #91 on: August 14, 2014, 06:46:04 AM »
I watched that old video of Nelson v. Littler  at PV linked at the start of this thread.  I was startled to hear the voice-over announcer talk about the Bermuda fairways.  That can’t be accurate for a northern course, can it? 

The fairways now are predominantly poa/bentgrass. Back when they had limited irrigation they played around with warm season turf. The bermuda was mainly on banks. They did use zoysia on fairways and there is still a little in 13 but they've cleaned a lot of it up.
Golf construction & maintenance are like creating a masterpiece; Da Vinci didn't paint the Mona Lisa's eyes first..... You start with the backdrop, layer on the detail and fine tune the finished product into a masterpiece

Dan Herrmann

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Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #92 on: August 14, 2014, 07:32:30 AM »
Nice article:  http://articles.philly.com/2013-08-19/sports/41422789_1_golf-course-charley-raudenbush-crump-cup

I think the 2014 Crump Cup will be on September 28.  Best $20 you'll ever donate (I think the donation goes to the local boy scouts)

Mark McKeever

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Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #93 on: August 14, 2014, 01:27:23 PM »
Dan, I thought I remembered it being a donation too.

MM
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Sean_A

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Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #94 on: August 15, 2014, 06:00:54 AM »
Hmmm, I have been a little surprised that this thread has not prompted more discussion of the course! Lots of tangential asides, but not much focus on the course which, for all its status, is not so often shown in any photographic detail. Main comments seem to have been around the course looking narrower and more tree-lined than people assumed - not actually the case, as various have pointed out. I think what struck me more playing the course is how sandy it is - the trees tend to fade into the background.  Maybe I am to blame for my own relatively light comment on the course, or everyone is exhausted from previous bitter disputes about the course's history!

AA

The course sure look lovely - and tough as nails - thanks for the pix.

What did you think about the cut lines?  I see a lot of marooned bunkers, but that could be down to slopes.  

I know folks don't think the trees are a big deal at PV, but man, when I see that much shade on a sunny October morning I have to wonder.  What is the surrounding countryside like - any good exterior views available or is it a suburban mess?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mark McKeever

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Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #95 on: August 15, 2014, 08:30:57 AM »
No exterior views.  You wouldn't know you were near a golf course unless you were looking for it.

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Dan Herrmann

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Re: Pine Valley (pictures)
« Reply #96 on: August 15, 2014, 09:19:09 PM »
Mark is absolutely right.  Pine Valley Borough (yes, they have their own police department and borough hall) is an island of tranquil beauty in the suburban sprawl of South Jersey.

It's a very special place.   I've walked it for 2 Crump Cups and a Philly Open, and consider those walks a highlight of my golfing life.