Pacific Gales – NEW Oregon Pacific Coast Golf Course Development

[Shane Wright]

As some of you may have already seen or will be seeing later this week, the Forecaddie with Golfweek has written an article on a new golf course development coming to the Southern Oregon Pacific Coast called Pacific Gales. The story is in the Nov. 22 issue of Golfweek — and the digital issue is already available via iTunes.
 
The location is set near Port Orford, Oregon, approximately 30 minutes south of Bandon Dunes.  It will be a sandy soil-based links course set firm against the coast. The landscape and location offer a tremendous opportunity for a golf course. A natural sand dune runs the length of the property and several holes will be along the coast with holes 9 and 18 sharing a cliffside green. The Cape Blanco lighthouse will offer a back drop as one plays to the north.
 
Jim Haley of Highland Golf Services is the Managing Partner for the Pacific Gales development and worked on the original Bandon Dunes. His journey to put Pacific Gales together began in the 1990s.  He has made an entire career of building golf courses, including Nanea, Huntsman Springs, TPC Stonebrae, Queenwood (England) and many others.
 
The golf course architect will be Dave Esler of Esler Golf Design in Chicago. Dave has been involved in a lot of restoration work in the Chicago area as well as the original design at Black Sheep Golf Club, which many of the Chicago GCAers are probably familiar with.
 
The Pacific Gales website includes more information as well as pictures and video at www.pacificgales.com and media inquiries can be e-mailed to marketing@pacificgales.com

[Howard Riefs]

Very interesting.

For those who are familiar with the Southern Oregon coast, how does this site compare to the area (Crook Point south of Pistol River) that Herb Kohler looked at a few years ago?

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/blogs/wheres-matty-g/2011/03/is-herb-kohler-getting-into-go.html

[David_Tepper]

Promotional video:

http://pacificgales.com/video/

[RJ_Daley]

How do the GCA clan feel about these 'second bite of the apple' golf projects?

Personally, I'm skeptical.  Another remote outpost, to go along with several that have sprung up in the last dozen or so years, that basically only cater to a clientele of intrepid golf fanatics who have the financial means to pursue their golf quests, seems to me to be a finite and exhaustible market. I'm not saying the courses being constructed by these new age masters of golf architecture are not something great to behold and revere for their excellent offerings.  From Cabot Links to Barnbougle and Lost Farm, Bandon Resorts to Fancourt S.A., the sand hill prairie courses, and somewhat remote Streamsong; now coming the De Vries course on that Island off OZ, the Adams County WI nouveau pine barrens, or the Cabo Course that reverted to dunes, and on and on.  

I gotta love the promo video, with the ethereal chorale of chanters and singers, as if offering their paens in the pantheon of the gods which one hears as background mood music in most every video promo that these outpost enclave courses seems to try to create a marketting aura appealing to the would be 'masters of the universe' that comprise so much of this intrepid golfer market.  

And yet, the courses being created are with little argument from me, works of great design talent and something for a bloke to dream to one day play....  

[Steve Burrows]

This project seems to have been a long time in the making.  I did an internship with a golf course architect 10 years ago and I recall looking at a routing plan he had in his office for a proposed project along the Oregon coast (and which he had labeled as "Pacific Gailes", with an "i"; I am only assuming that these are both related).  I also recall him being wildly enthusiastic about the project, in part because he grew up in Oregon, and in part because this is a spectacular oceanfront property that he had not (and, to my knowledge, still has not) ever had the chance to work on.  Apparently he did not get the commission.

[Dan Kelly]

How do the GCA clan feel about these 'second bite of the apple' golf projects?

The more, the merrier.

It's not my money that's at stake. I hope they all succeed famously.

I gotta go listen to that promo video. I can almost hear the music already! (Gag me.)

Back now: Is that Frank Deford?

Back again: No, it's not -- but the guy does a great Frank Deford imitation!

My wife calls that sort of writing "drivel." She knows whereof she speaks....

Back yet again: Dick Daley might not be the only one to appreciate the choice of music. It's titled "Trojan Horse." Ha!

Back yet again again: Strange name for a golf course, come to think of it. Who wants to play golf in a "gale"? A breeze, a zephyr, even a wind -- but a gale?

[Tom_Doak]

(a)  Do they have permits?

(b)  Do they have money?

[David Davis]

I bet they will get permits and they will get money. I'd imagine the authorities would be quite pleased to get another Bandon Dunes type resort down there in Oregon. Honestly before Bandon there wasn't much there. Not that that's a bad thing.

I think all these great courses are some kind of destiny calling for me to return to Oregon some day.

I can hear the chant, "if you build it David will come." probably just these voices in my head.

I hope they fill the entire Oregon Coast with amazing golf courses.

[Joe Jemsek]

I think I worked on this site while I was at Dye in Denver, the property has some great potential it's divided into two areas, but routing the course required some lenghty cart rides to connect the cliffs and dunes becuase of some significant slopes. Esler will do a great job, if it ever moves forward.

[Jud_T]

Esler is quite good but I question how many will bother to leave the Bandon resort to play here.  Hell, I'm so lazy that I won't even go into town for a beer after walking 36.  It's gonna have to be top 50 Modern material to move the needle.  With the Preserve, the Punchbowl and Gil's courses to come, Bandon is already like a ridiculous brunch spread at a fancy hotel.  After you've just gorged on the homemade chorizo benedict, prime rib, crab claws, locally cured lox and freshly baked bagels, organic berries, fresh-squeezed Dom Perignon mimosas, fresh egg omelet with hand-picked morels and the home cooked tira misu, who the hell wants to stop for Mexican food on the way home?

[Connor Dougherty]

I bet they will get permits and they will get money. I'd imagine the authorities would be quite pleased to get another Bandon Dunes type resort down there in Oregon. Honestly before Bandon there wasn't much there. Not that that's a bad thing.

I think all these great courses are some kind of destiny calling for me to return to Oregon some day.

I can hear the chant, "if you build it David will come." probably just these voices in my head.

I hope they fill the entire Oregon Coast with amazing golf courses.

David,
I wouldn't be so sure, Herb Kohler and Pete Dye were looking to do I believe 36 holes on the coast but couldn't secure permitting or the towns support, as they were worried about the environmental hazards of building a course on the property.

Heck, even Mike Keiser is having trouble getting Bandon Muni done!

[Pete_Pittock]

IMO they'd be better off with Pacific Gailes, rather than Pacific Gales.


It looks like this property is just above the Elk River, north of the town of Cape Blanco. It would seem the land is near identical to Bandon.
Assuming the Keider project just south of Bandon gets approval in a few days, the combination of that course, along with Bandon Crossing might make this project more viable.  There was another potential development just a few miles up the coast which was stopped by Curry County commissioners.

The Dye project mentioned earlier is about 20-30 miles further down the coast, south of Pot Orford, is on much more difficult terrain. Also it is a significant car ride from Bandon.

[Stephen Davis]

I will be interested in this development. That part of the Oregon Coast is especially dramatic with all of the small rocky islands. It will be a beautiful setting, now the quality of the course we will have to wait to see on that.

[Carl Nichols]

Esler is quite good but I question how many will bother to leave the Bandon resort to play here.  Hell, I'm so lazy that I won't even go into town for a beer after walking 36.  It's gonna have to be top 50 Modern material to move the needle.  With the Preserve, the Punchbowl and Gil's courses to come, Bandon is already like a ridiculous brunch spread at a fancy hotel.  After you've just gorged on the homemade chorizo benedict, prime rib, crab claws, locally cured lox and freshly baked bagels, organic berries, fresh-squeezed Dom Perignon mimosas, fresh egg omelet with hand-picked morels and the home cooked tira misu, who the hell wants to stop for Mexican food on the way home?

Have you ever been to brunch at the American Club?   

[Ross Harmon]

Sounds like a good project if it gets to opening.

The website has no shortage of hopes for the course... comparing the landscape to Bandon, Cypress Point, Pebble Beach and Pine Valley.

[C. Sturges]

Not to get hopes up, there are two or three families in this area of the Oregon coast that want to build golf courses.  They have the land and some have the financial backing, the problem is getting the zoning.  Since Bandon was started the state has changed some of there zoning laws, about changing the zoning based of financial loss, if not changed.  Not sure if this makes it any easier.
Now the good thing, the land is great for building links golf courses!
Hope they can get it off the ground,
chris

[JC Jones]

GCA.com never disappoints.  If this was a 36 hole facility with C&C and Doak there would be sooo much ookie cookie it'd make Jenna Jamison blush.  But, throw a different architect on a piece of property that could be as good as any in America and the haters roll in.

This project should be supported by the GCA.com folk as much as Streamsong south or Streamsong north.

[Mark_F]

After you've just gorged on the homemade chorizo benedict, prime rib, crab claws, locally cured lox and freshly baked bagels, organic berries, fresh-squeezed Dom Perignon mimosas, fresh egg omelet with hand-picked morels and the home cooked tira misu, who the hell wants to stop for Mexican food on the way home?

Someone who doesn't like chorizo, lox, morels or tira misu?

After all, even Arnold Schwarzenegger chowed down on the maid instead of Maria now and again.

[Ben Sims]

This project should be supported by the GCA.com folk as much as Streamsong south or Streamsong north.

Why should I support this golf course just because I am a member of this website?

Personally I think southwest Oregon needs another golf development like Rob Ford needs one of those mimosas Jud was talking about.  With what's at BDGR now, combined with what Keiser wants to do with the Bandon Muni project, Pacific Gailes runs the risk of oversaturating a small market.  How quickly we forget the emptiness of BDGR's rooms circa spring 2009.  With the DOW hitting record highs within 5 years of utter collapse, I'm feeling like there's validity to the argument that we've overweighted ourselves, golf included.  

In an average market, how much golf can southwest Oregon really support?  

[David Davis]

This project should be supported by the GCA.com folk as much as Streamsong south or Streamsong north.

Why should I support this golf course just because I am a member of this website?

Personally I think southwest Oregon needs another golf development like Rob Ford needs one of those mimosas Jud was talking about.  With what's at BDGR now, combined with what Keiser wants to do with the Bandon Muni project, Pacific Gailes runs the risk of oversaturating a small market.  How quickly we forget the emptiness of BDGR's rooms circa spring 2009.  With the DOW hitting record highs within 5 years of utter collapse, I'm feeling like there's validity to the argument that we've overweighted ourselves, golf included.  

In an average market, how much golf can southwest Oregon really support?  

Ben,

I'm by no means a historian but stranger things have happened no doubt. There is also a lot of gambling in the area so enough golf, enough wealthy golfers, more gambling developments, guys start bringing their wives along, more people start coming (just using that as an example, I could be way off) then we have a seaside golfing Vegas meka or just golfing meka (which it already is of course). I'd argue we can never have enough great golf courses, assuming they hit a home run and it's great! No doubt they will pay close attention to the type of work done at Bandon Dunes since it perfectly fits the lay of the land and do something remotely similar in terms of type of courses but unique due to it's own terrain, routing and usage of a different architect. However, it shouldn't be hard to set up something great there just utilizing and incorporating some of the great ideas of TD and C&C right down the road. It's not like you have to completely reinvent the wheel in this case to hit a home run. Not if the property is good enough.

Or maybe I'm just hoping!

So you definitely shouldn't support it because you are a member of a website, only because you are a lover of golf courses architecture would be my guess of a reason to want another course built on amazing property that has a chance (even if it were a small chance) of being a huge success and bringing the US another links golf gem.

Maybe Coos Bay will turn into a major hub with direct flights from all of the US.

If that happens I'm moving back to Oregon to die in heaven! Just saying....

[JC Jones]

I agree, David.  The point about being a member of this website was that we are fans of golf course architecture.  I would think this would be exciting because you've got potential for a new course to be built that has the promise of being fantastic.

I'm curious as to why the speculation about its financial viability should affect interest in the course.  Especially when there are many courses that are discussed here and are generally liked here that are either NLE or recently bankrupt.

Some would argue that putting a new 36 hole resort near the American Club and Erin Hills isn't a smart financial move.  And while some in that thread expressed some doubt, the thread ended up being 7 pages of general giddiness.

[Jud_T]

JC,

I'm all for it, really a fan of Esler's and hope it's the best thing since sliced bread, but that's only because I'm not an investor.  Hell I don't even have time to play Bandon Dunes I'm so busy with the other courses.  How long of a trip do you think you'd need to fit this in if it isn't a world-beater?.  My understanding is the Wisconsin project is several hours from the American Club and not in direct competition with it.  Besides it's on sand and the American Club isn't.  OK, I"m a buttboy...

[Jim Colton]

I saw an overview of this project in one of its earlier iterations, and it really is a remarkable looking piece of property. I am definitely excited to see it move forward.

[Tim Pitner]

There is also a lot of gambling in the area so enough golf, enough wealthy golfers, more gambling developments, guys start bringing their wives along, more people start coming (just using that as an example, I could be way off) then we have a seaside golfing Vegas meka or just golfing meka (which it already is of course).

I'll reserve judgment on the proposed course, but the quote above is not an appealing vision for the future of the Oregon coast (in my opinion).  The non-commercialization of the coast, in contrast to somewhere like California, is one of the best things about the Oregon coast and, as much as I love golf, there is more to life than golf and, as difficult as it is to comprehend, not everyone plays it.  It is possible to have too much of a good thing, even with respect to golf courses. 

[JC Jones]

  How long of a trip do you think you'd need to fit this in if it isn't a world-beater?.  

I love how the assumption is that because it is not C&C or Doak that it WONT be a world-beater.  Streamsong opens in the middle of the most saturated golf market in America and we are all foaming at the mouth to get down there.  Take away the C&C and Doak name and all of a sudden the course a) wont be a world-beater and b) shouldnt be built because it doesnt make sense economically.

OK, I"m a buttboy...

Exactly.