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Carl Nichols

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Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #125 on: November 15, 2013, 09:58:37 AM »
Sean:
Tumble Creek?  Too far to be considered? 

BCowan

Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #126 on: November 15, 2013, 10:22:34 AM »
Sean and Mike

     Toledo is less than 60 miles from Detroit and i often play 36 starting in one and ending in the other city.  The Mud Hens are the farm team for the Tigers!  Toledo is doing a little better than Detroit, it wasn't bailed out nearly to the degree as the metro was!  Armpit, which city is the most dangerous in America answer: it isn't Toledo.  It is pretty sad that you have to jump all over Ryan for including Toledo and Windsor after he made a note that he was including them!  If i was visiting Metro Detroit i would want to know about Inverness and Sylvania CC if i was an outsider!

List   Detroit/Toledo/Windsor  (if you don't like it, too bad!)
 
Inverness (toledo)
Franklin Hills
CC of Detroit
Orchard Lake CC
Indianwood
UofM (ann arbor)
Bloomfield
Grosse Ile
Oakland Hills  N/S
Dearborn CC
Radrick Farms (ann arbor)
Sylvania CC (toledo)
Meadowbrook
Western GC
Red Run
Essex (Windsor)
Plum Hollow
Birmingham
Barton Hills (ann arbor, was average Ross pre Renovation)
Washtenaw CC (ann arbor/ypsi)
Roseland (Windsor muni) (played pre-renovation and loved it)
























Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #127 on: November 15, 2013, 10:23:16 AM »
Chicago (in no particular order) -

Chicago
Shoreacres
Olympia Fields North
Olympia Fields South
Medinah #3
Butler
Beverly
Skokie
Black Sheep
Knollwood


I like this list; my only possible beef would be Black Sheep, which is 46 miles from downtown Chicago.  I like the course a lot and think it has great architectural bones, but it's too far to be considered a Chicago course for me.  I would substitute Exmoor but otherwise agree with Sven's choices.  Knollwood, in particular, is a sleeping giant of a golf course, an Alison beauty that was redone very capably by Keith Foster.  Unfortunately, the membership would not allow him (for no good reason) to fix the worst hole on the golf course, a short par-4 with goalpoast willow trees and an out-of-play pond to the left of the fairway.  Just a real clunker, but they wouldn't take his advice.  The rest of the course is a great mix of long and short holes, terrific elevated greens and phenomenal bunkering.  Knollwood just might have the most impressive bunkering in town.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Jud_T

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Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #128 on: November 15, 2013, 10:36:58 AM »
Terry,

I'd probably put Old Elm over Knollwood, which I also like.  Agree that Black Sheep is a bit of a stretch.  It's about the same distance as the Dunes Club from downtown.

Sven,

What would your list look like if you were recommending a top 10 for a short hitting 16 hdcp buddy who was visiting Chicago?

Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Richard Hetzel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #129 on: November 15, 2013, 11:00:18 AM »
Sean and Mike

     Toledo is less than 60 miles from Detroit and i often play 36 starting in one and ending in the other city.  The Mud Hens are the farm team for the Tigers!  Toledo is doing a little better than Detroit, it wasn't bailed out nearly to the degree as the metro was!  Armpit, which city is the most dangerous in America answer: it isn't Toledo.  It is pretty sad that you have to jump all over Ryan for including Toledo and Windsor after he made a note that he was including them!  If i was visiting Metro Detroit i would want to know about Inverness and Sylvania CC if i was an outsider!

List   Detroit/Toledo/Windsor  (if you don't like it, too bad!)
 
Inverness (toledo)


Franklin Hills
CC of Detroit
Orchard Lake CC
Indianwood
UofM (ann arbor)
Bloomfield
Grosse Ile
Oakland Hills  N/S
Dearborn CC
Radrick Farms (ann arbor)
Sylvania CC (toledo)
Meadowbrook
Western GC
Red Run
Essex (Windsor)
Plum Hollow
Birmingham
Barton Hills (ann arbor, was average Ross pre Renovation)
Washtenaw CC (ann arbor/ypsi)
Roseland (Windsor muni) (played pre-renovation and loved it)


So on my many travels to Detroit, would you say it is worth the drive from Dearborn to play Roseland across the river in Windsor???





















Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #130 on: November 15, 2013, 11:26:18 AM »
Terry,

I'd probably put Old Elm over Knollwood, which I also like.  Agree that Black Sheep is a bit of a stretch.  It's about the same distance as the Dunes Club from downtown.

Sven,

What would your list look like if you were recommending a top 10 for a short hitting 16 hdcp buddy who was visiting Chicago?



Terry:

Black Sheep should be on the list for what it represents, prairie golf.  Its the only real example of golf on the open fields of the midwest  that appears on the list (Chicago GC excepted, which I would argue is a style all of its own in these parts).  I thought about the Dunes Club, but I don't think that the sand dunes of the IN/MI lake front should be considered part of the Chicagoland "terroir" (a word that perhaps should be used a bit more when discussing golf courses).

Jud:

The short hitters list is just about the same as the real list, they just need to play the right tees.

For example, OFN is a bear from the blues and blacks, but step up to the whites or greens and all of the hazards are manageable, although the player might have some choices on holes like 3, 9 and 14.  Same goes for the South course, even with all of the forced carries.  The use of the creek at OFS is worthy of a separate thread, as would a hole by hole comparison of the two courses at the club (OFS is up there on my list of most underrated courses in the country).  The 12th at OFS is perhaps one of the best examples of how a hole can present similar challenges to different players at different distances.  Played from 200+, it is a beast of a par 3 for even the best of players (and perhaps worthy of being added to the discussion of best inland par 3's).  But even from 135 at the women's tees, you see the same stress on the player's need to execute a pure shot.

Shoreacres will fit anyone's game, although holes like 4, 5 and 10 might play a bit strong.  Skokie, Beverly and Knollwood are playable for all, assuming you don't get suckered into stepping back beyond your capabilities.  

I might swap out Butler and Medinah #3 because of the demands on length and the required carries and replace them with Flossmoor, Exmoor, Old Elm and/or Medinah #1.  You are also well aware of my love for Shepherd's Crook, which would offer another example of Foster's work on land that doesn't look like the traditional north shore parkland course, and is playable for even the shortest of players.  

Sven

« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 11:57:06 AM by Sven Nilsen »
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

BCowan

Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #131 on: November 15, 2013, 11:29:37 AM »
Richard

   If you are going to windsor play Essex (private) and Roseland (muni).  The city of Windsor put 1-3 million into Roseland a couple years ago and did major renovation.  I just found out you can get $60 Canada/Mexico passport.  It is my favorite muni probably tied with Ocala Golf Club in FL.  Not much change in elevation at Roseland, but great Ross bunkering.  It is also in good shape for being gov't owned.  I have yet to play post renovation, to lazy to get my passport.

Ben  

Morgan Clawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #132 on: November 15, 2013, 11:33:54 AM »
My Minneapolis/St. Paul rankings:

#1 White Bear Yacht Club –So fun to play and there are many holes here that I haven’t seen anywhere else. The stretch from 9-14 is very unique. A must see by GCA.comers.

#2 Woodhill – Like White Bear, it has wonderful land movement and challenging greens of varying sizes. Best par 3s of any Ross course in MN.  Stunningly gorgeous property.
   
# 3 Interlachen  - A truly great course, particularly for the accomplished player that can work the ball both ways.

#4 Minikahda – Love the historic feeling of this course due to its city location and original club house. The stretch of holes in the middle of the property (5 – 14) is very solid.

#5 Golden Valley – A very challenging par 73 with six par 5s and 5 par 3s. Starting with two par 5s back to back sets the tone.

#6 Stillwater – The crazy cool 10th vaults this one above some others. Love the small town scale and atmosphere.

#7 Hazeltine – Always fun to play a course that’s hosted a lot of major championships. Looking forward to the Ryder Cup!

#8 Windsong Farm – A nice variation from the parkland courses in the metro. Great, relaxed out-in-the-country vibe. Good use of the wetlands – strategic without being onerous.

#9 Keller - My favorite muni so I have to include it.  Offers more strategic options that a lot of the privates.

#10 Minneapolis – Solid, difficult course that’s always in great condition.

I have only played Somerset, Midland, Town and Country,  MN Valley, and Oak Ridge once, and it’s been several years for some of them. These courses could easily jump if with a little more familiarity.

Haven’t played Spring Hill or North Oaks.

Regarding the Golf Digest list that Pat posted – Rochester and Dacotah Ridge above Woodhill?  Never.

jim_lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #133 on: November 15, 2013, 11:35:51 AM »
I certainly don't live in a city, far from it, but the following courses are located within 5 miles of my house. I think they stack up well against most of the cities mention above and without having to stretch the boundaries.

Pinehurst #2
Forest Creek North
Forest Creek South
Dormie
Pine Needles
Mid Pines
CCNC Cardinal
CCNC Dogwood
Southern Pines GC
Pinehurst #4
Several other fine courses, but I'm supposed to stop at 10
"Crusty"  Jim
Freelance Curmudgeon

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #134 on: November 15, 2013, 11:40:53 AM »
Terry,

I'd probably put Old Elm over Knollwood, which I also like.  Agree that Black Sheep is a bit of a stretch.  It's about the same distance as the Dunes Club from downtown.


Old Elm is a worthy contender but I discount it a bit because there are many forgettable holes on the course, even if virtually every green is very memorable.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Mike Tanner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #135 on: November 15, 2013, 12:52:36 PM »
From Virginia Beach to an hour away, assuming you don't get stuck in tunnel traffic, which you should never assume!

Cavalier Golf and Yacht Club (Ch. Banks/L. George)
Riverfront (I'm on a Doak!)
VB National (former PGA tour property, P. Dye)
Golden Horseshoe/Gold (classic R.T. Jones)
The River Course/Kingsmill (P. Dye)
Royal New Kent (Mike Strantz)
SeaScape (Art Wall)
Life's too short to waste on bad golf courses or bad wine.

Chris DeToro

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #136 on: November 15, 2013, 12:55:06 PM »
Seattle Tacoma metro

Chambers Bay
Aldarra
Seattle GC
Fircrest
Gold Mountain Olympic
Broadmoor
Tacoma CC
TPC Snoqualmie
WA National
Trophy Lake

I really struggled after Tacoma. :)

No Sahalee??

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #137 on: November 15, 2013, 04:08:33 PM »
Seattle Tacoma metro

Chambers Bay
Aldarra
Seattle GC
Fircrest
Gold Mountain Olympic
Broadmoor
Tacoma CC
TPC Snoqualmie
WA National
Trophy Lake

I really struggled after Tacoma. :)

No Sahalee??

Forgot about Sahalee,

Carl, TC is 90 miles away from Seattle.. Too far.

PGertner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #138 on: November 15, 2013, 10:51:41 PM »
Providence RI

1. Newport
2. Misquamicut
3. Shelter Harbor
4. Wannamoisett
5. Rhode Island CC
6. Sakonnet
7. Warwick CC
8. Newport National
9. Point Judith
10. Whitinsville (twice)

« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 11:57:19 PM by PGertner »

Rees Milikin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #139 on: November 16, 2013, 06:05:32 PM »
Tampa/Orlando
-no particular order

Old Memorial
Streamsong Red
Streamsong Blue
Palma Ceia
Interlachen
Pine Barrens
Mountain Lake (a geographical stretch)
CC of Orlando
Isleworth
Copperhead

Southern Dunes, Lake Nona, and Rolling Oaks could also contend.  

I would include Mission Inn - El Campeon, The Dunes at Seville, Victoria Hills, and Deltona Club...RIP Sugarloaf Mtn.  

I find it sad that we have to combine Tampa & Orlando to make a list for Central FL.  With all the sandy soil and rolling hills (albeit smaller hills) in the North Central FL area we should have better courses.

JWL

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #140 on: November 16, 2013, 08:07:39 PM »
Ricardo,
Do you not consider Pilara' part of Buenos Aires, or have you just not played it?

Andy Troeger

Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #141 on: November 16, 2013, 10:26:33 PM »
For Albuquerque (and everything within 30-40 miles, which does not include Santa Fe or Black Mesa)

1. Paa-Ko Ridge (by a mile)
2. UNM Championship
3. Twin Warriors
4. Pueblo de Cochiti
5. Sandia
6. Santa Ana
7. Four Hills (first private club listed--ABQ is not a private club mecca)
8. Albuquerque CC
9. Arroyo del Oso
10. Isleta

My Santa Fe list would be
1. Black Mesa
2. Las Campanas Sunset
3. Las Campanas Sunrise
4. Marty Sanchez Links de Santa Fe
5. Towa


A couple notes about the Indiana lists I've seen...

For Indianapolis, I'd have Wolf Run #1 and Crooked Stick #2. I'm admittedly more of a tee-to-green guy than a greens guy (compared to many here at least), but I don't think Broadmoor CC is particularly close to those top two. It is a good club certainly. I'd probably have The Fort #3 but I'm missing some of that next tier.

In Southern Indiana I'd have Victoria National #1, French Lick Hill #2, and Sultan's Run ahead of the FL Dye course. I haven't played the rest.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #142 on: November 17, 2013, 10:03:32 AM »
Sean and Mike

     Toledo is less than 60 miles from Detroit and i often play 36 starting in one and ending in the other city.  The Mud Hens are the farm team for the Tigers!  Toledo is doing a little better than Detroit, it wasn't bailed out nearly to the degree as the metro was!  Armpit, which city is the most dangerous in America answer: it isn't Toledo.  It is pretty sad that you have to jump all over Ryan for including Toledo and Windsor after he made a note that he was including them!  If i was visiting Metro Detroit i would want to know about Inverness and Sylvania CC if i was an outsider!

List   Detroit/Toledo/Windsor  (if you don't like it, too bad!)
 
Inverness (toledo)
Franklin Hills
CC of Detroit
Orchard Lake CC
Indianwood
UofM (ann arbor)
Bloomfield
Grosse Ile
Oakland Hills  N/S
Dearborn CC
Radrick Farms (ann arbor)
Sylvania CC (toledo)
Meadowbrook
Western GC
Red Run
Essex (Windsor)
Plum Hollow
Birmingham
Barton Hills (ann arbor, was average Ross pre Renovation)
Washtenaw CC (ann arbor/ypsi)
Roseland (Windsor muni) (played pre-renovation and loved it)

Who's jumping?  The thread was about "in your city".  I questioned if was reasonable to include Toledo and Windsor as part of Metro Detroit (most people's definition of in your city when talking about recreation, tourism etc), which they clearly aren't.  Okay, Ryan has sailed his own ship and redefined "in your city".  No worries.


Ciao
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 02:39:46 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #143 on: November 17, 2013, 10:20:01 AM »
Within one hour of Central Aberdour:

Muirfield
The Old Course (St. Andrews)
Gleneagles
Auchterderran

and the list goes one and on.......
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

BCowan

Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #144 on: November 17, 2013, 10:22:25 AM »
Sean

    You need to get a grip man.  There are no fast hard rules here.  In your city, well if two cities are close by or Chicago for example it can be 60 miles from one top track to another.  Job is to inform someone of the great tracks in your city and including ones less than 60 miles is a bonus.  Mud Hens/Tigers are a team.  Windsor is divided by the Detroit River!  Luckily great bands broke hard fast rules and expanded the boundaries of music, which isn't allowed under Sean's Golfocracy.  Do great chef's deviate from the recipe (the directions)?  Sean you weren't a tattle tale in elementary school were you?

Ben  

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #145 on: November 17, 2013, 10:38:28 AM »
B

Mud Hens/Tigers are a team.  Windsor is divided by the Detroit River!  Luckily great bands broke hard fast rules and expanded the boundaries of music, which isn't allowed under Sean's Golfocracy.  Do great chef's deviate from the recipe (the directions)?  Sean you weren't a tattle tale in elementary school were you?

You have completely lost me  ???, but thats okay, I don't need to be found.  

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #146 on: November 17, 2013, 11:10:34 AM »
Toronto

St. George's G&CC (Thompson)
Toronto GC (Colt)
Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast)
Rosedale GC (Ross)
Weston G&CC (Park)



« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 12:22:47 PM by Ian Andrew »
With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #147 on: November 17, 2013, 11:14:39 AM »
Toronto
within the actual city boundaries only

St. George's G&CC (Thompson)
Toronto GC (Colt)
Scarboro G&CC (Tillinghast)
Rosedale GC (Ross)
Weston G&CC (Park)
 


I thought Toronto GC was in Mississauga?

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #148 on: November 17, 2013, 11:27:04 AM »
.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 12:23:10 PM by Ian Andrew »
With every golf development bubble, the end was unexpected and brutal....

Jeff Shelman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best courses in your city
« Reply #149 on: November 19, 2013, 04:51:06 PM »
For my Twin Cities friends who were anxiously awaiting my ballot.

I'm not including Keller on here because I want to see it with my own eyes before including it.

1. WBYC
2. Interlachen
3. Minikahda
4. Oak Ridge
5. Hazeltine
6. Windsong
7. Golden Valley
8. Woodhill
9. Midland Hills (homer pick)
10. Wayzata

Others receiving consideration: Somerset, T&C, Minneapolis, StoneRidge, Spring Hill

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