[Sean_A]

The photos of Old Town gives me a sort of Aussie vibe.  Could that be possible?  It would seem to be a very interesting course when or if it plays firm and fast.  I like the looks of it.

Funny that. I was sitting here thinking 'I've never seen a more British-looking course in America'.

Adam - really?  I don't know of a trapped inland UK course which has anywhere near the sense of space as Old Town.  Add in the incredible number of direct water hazards and OTC really is quite apart from anything I know in UK. 

OLD TOWN CLUB CONT.

For some reason, twelve grabs the attention of many, including myself.  The drive to a two-tier fairway is nothing special and the green, while very good, is not a standout among Old Town's gems.  I think the aesthetic of the approach is superb; especially the lovely specimen tree in the background. This is the way specimen trees should be showcased on a golf course, though the scene is compromised a bit by the shaggy evergreen further right in the background.  I am reliably told that offending tree and others are now removed. Maybe someone more astute than me can explain the attraction.  Below is a look from beyond the drive zone, most will face a blind approach. 
 

One of two holes which from the tee unsettled me; the 13th hole features a blind drive framed by fairly tight tree lines left and right.  I have played narrower holes, but this seemed uncharacteristically narrow for Old Town.  The green though is excellent.  The short two-shotter 14th may look the most radically different hole on the course.  Trees where water runs down the left have been cleared and the bunker work to the rear of the long, skinny green has transformed its look.  By the time we reached the 15th tee, another hole with water playing a role, two things became clear to me.  First, no matter how well the course uses the hills, there was no way to avoid incorporating a lot of water shots.  I count at least nine holes where water can cause grief. Second, it is incredible how well fairway width and green placement mitigate the full impact of the creeks. However, this fact remains, five approaches require some form of aerial shot due to water. 

Other than #11, perhaps the 15th is the most intimidating.  While a carry is not required, water does crowd the green's left side.  This long par 3 looks Redanish, but it would be awfully difficult to sling a low hooking runner to the left side of the green.   
 

More to follow.

Ciao

[Adam Lawrence]

It's the landscape rather than anything else. In the flesh I'm sure you're right Sean. But a sense of space doesn't come over too easily in photographs.

[Sean_A]

It's the landscape rather than anything else. In the flesh I'm sure you're right Sean. But a sense of space doesn't come over too easily in photographs.

Adam

Your landscape comment is interesting.  I think I can see where you are coming from, but can you give some examples?  

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

This is a most impressive photo tour. Well done Sean. When viewed in conjunction with the current but separate GCA restoration thread http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,54419.0.html - and the WF websites before/after renovation photos - http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/wake/sports/m-golf/auto_pdf/2012-13/misc_non_event/otcredesign.pdf - it becomes even more impressive.
Looking forward to seeing the rest of the holes on this tour.
All the best

PS - does anyone have a course map? It would help understanding the routing around the 4th/7th holes and the use of the streams.

[Sean_A]

Thomas

Thanks.

I am not sure about copyright protection so I don't include aerial images in my writeups.  However, in Saltzy's terrific tour, there is numbered aerial.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,52184.0.html

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

Sean,
Thanks for this. Now I understanding the routing. The difference in the grass colour is presumably seasonal variance with your tour being in late Autumn and Marks being in May. With theses Autumn grass colours I can appreciate RJD's comment about an 'Aussie vibe', it does kinda remind me of the Tom Roberts painting 'Breakaway'.
All the best.

[Sean_A]

OLD TOWN CLUB CONT.

Most of Old Town's blind or obscured tee shots don't offer a guiding bunker. Until the renovation, among #s 1, 4, 8, 10, 12, 13 & 16, only the 8th featured fairway bunkers.  This current renovation saw C&C place two new bunkers on the 16th; one high and one low on the banked left to right fairway.  To be honest, I am not sure they work very well.  I understand the goal of trying to break-up the tree frame look, but perhaps only one bunker was necessary.  I managed to hit a power fade to the bottom of the hill only to leave myself an awkward distance for the very steep second.  The tabletop green is fairly small and quite contoured, it pays dividends to keep the approach below the hole, which I managed to do...way below the hole!  My kick up to the front hole location failed and I found myself looking toward the sky again.

The final par 5 takes us over a creek, past bunkers and back to the double green in the far distance.  The oddly placed far right bunker is new. 


Thinking the centre-line bunker was protecting something special, I decided to take the what I later found out is the foolish route down the right. Hoping to have the length of the green to hit up, I was disappointed my "clever" second didn't yield a reward. 


Its a bit of a wild idea, but upon reaching the creek I immediately thought that it would be cool if there was a land bridge some 15 yards wide feeding to the green.  For sure it would be a risky play for bigger hitters, but it would be fun to try and eliminate one of the forced carries.




One last look at 8 & 17 from the final tee.


There isn't quite as much going on with the home hole as on the 9th, but I rather like the simplicty of the design.




Its quite clear to me that the front nine is superior to a very good back nine, but the 10th, 12th & 18th are all first class holes.  The flow of Old Town's routing is excellent.  Very much like many fine English designs, the length of the course isn't distressing.  The player is afforded opportunities to bang and roll shots.  The greens are top notch.  The course was in superb nick.  The views are very handsome.  The only real drawback I can muster is the amount of water.  I would prefer less, but at least there are no ponds and many of the holes where water threatens offer lay-ups and/or plenty of width to avoid trouble.  I think Old Town merits 2*, its that good!  If the club can find some way to eliminate the Bermuda and further increase fairway acerage, it can only make the course better.

SCORECARD (daily tees)
Par 70
6280 Yards

1. 394
2. 143 !
3. 369
4. 516
5. 363 !
6. 173 !
7. 345 !
8. 382 !
9. 396
10. 398 !
11. 178
12. 413 !
13. 421
14. 317 !
15. 189
16. 358
17. 557
18. 368


My order of favourites on this trip from the visitor PoV:

1.Old Town - the only one of the 3 to make my Whip It Out List
GAP
2. Dormie
GAP
3. Mid Pines
SEVERAL GAPS
4. Wildwood Green

Order of best on this trip:

1a. Old Town
2. Dormie - while I am not entirely sold on the course, diversity is something I value a ton and Dormie has two tons of diversity
3. Mid-Pines - no slouch to finish third, would take it as a members' course over Dormie in a heartbeat
4. Wildwood Green

Ciao

[Jason Topp]

Sean - did you play from the back tee on 17?  The bunkers left are perfectly placed from there because, if they did not otherwise exist, many people would hit it there.  Dunlop told us they were out of reach and promptly put one in them.

I would be interested to hear the thinking behind the bunker on the right but but the hole would look pretty bland without it.  

Dunlop told us that the architects were very careful to make sure the fairway bunkers parrellelled the creek that angles across the fairway.  

I don't have a problem with forced carries over creeks, expecially in front of the green.  When they become ponds, I find them less desireable.  

[Dunlop_White]

Sean -- Great write-up! The Reynolds estate was 1000 acres large, and Maxwell had his "pick of the litter" for the course (165 acres). The topography is off-the-charts -- most agree. But you're correct that the creeks are a common theme throughout. In fact, the primary waterway called Silas Creek and its branches are located on 13 of the 18 holes. However, these creeks do not really threaten play on Holes 5, 7, 9 and 18. (May need the assistance of Ed Oden, Chris Clouser or Mark Saltzman here -- as I remember perhaps creeks working through other Maxwell courses like this, perhaps Dornock Hills?)

The cross-bunkers recovered on Hole 16 were Maxwell originals. They were abandoned and covered up in the 50's. I have always been a huge fan of cross-bunkers for their visual and directional impact -- defining the landing area ahead that you cannot readily see from the tee and even pointing you in the direction of the green. Plus, these cross-bunkers visually broke up a hillside of monotone green.

[Mark Saltzman]

Sean -- Great write-up! The Reynolds estate was 1000 acres large, and Maxwell had his "pick of the litter" for the course (165 acres). The topography is off-the-charts -- most agree. But you're correct that the creeks are a common theme throughout. In fact, the primary waterway called Silas Creek and its branches are located on 13 of the 18 holes. However, these creeks do not really threaten play on Holes 5, 7, 9 and 18. (May need the assistance of Ed Oden, Chris Clouser or Mark Saltzman here -- as I remember perhaps creeks working through other Maxwell courses like this, perhaps Dornock Hills?)

The cross-bunkers recovered on Hole 16 were Maxwell originals. They were abandoned and covered up in the 50's. I have always been a huge fan of cross-bunkers for their visual and directional impact -- defining the landing area ahead that you cannot readily see from the tee and even pointing you in the direction of the green. Plus, these cross-bunkers visually broke up a hillside of monotone green.

Dunlop,

Not to take the focus away from Old Town, but the first thing that popped into my head was Oklahoma City.  Here is what I wrote in a tour of OKCGCC:

While the front nine has several  strong holes (of particular note  are the 2nd, 5th and 7th), the real genius of OCGCC is the routing of a five-hole stretch on a tiny piece of land on the other side of a road.





Maxwell makes maximum use of the stream, having it cross in front and left of the green on 10...




It must runs short and right of the green on the 11th...




It must be crossed twice at the 12th, and it protects the left side of the green...






It runs right of and beyond the 13th green...




And must be carried yet again on the approach to the 14th...




To steal a line from Ed Oden, Maxwell found a feature he liked and figuratively bashes you over the head with it.

[Peter Pallotta]

Mark, Sean - you two should combine to create a website or book or ebook based on the courses you've played and like best and write about most fully. I mean it - you're both excellent at what you do, and your courses-choices are always interesting and just enough off the beaten track to get and keep our attention.

Peter

[Ronald Montesano]

They could call it The Confidential Guide or something~

[Peter Pallotta]

I was thinking "Arble & Mark" (sounds quite classy and upscale, in a British way); or "Saltzman & Sean" (sounds more American upscale). Either way, they'd be "Purveyors of Fine Quality Golf Courses - Worldwide".

[Thomas Dai]

OLD TOWN CLUB CONT.

Excellent, thorough course tours (as always). A real pleasure to view and read. Well done Sean.

Mischievously I can't help but wonder what say, the 13th at ANGC would look like with a similarly looking shaggy stream and beige/brown fairways? I guess it was like that once upon a time, time of year dependant though.

All the best.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Old Town looks like an absolute treat. Much prefer the look of this course to many more heralded ones I've seen photo tours of.

Think I need to see myself some Maxwell sometime.

[Steve Kline]

I agree Ally. I don't think I've ever played a Maxwell, but Old Town sure makes me want to.

Regarding the 13th green at Dormie, that photo doesn't do it justice. The green and surrounds tilt left to right pretty good. A low running shot can work its way to the back right nicely. Also, the depression on the right is a little more than the photo shows. When I played Dormie the first time I thought the photos I had seen didn't do justice to the topography.

[Sean_A]

Steve is right, there is more of an accentuated left to right tilt to the green than it appears.  Pretty much from where the pin is toward the front of the green tilts toward the fairway down to the swale - not a severe false front, but when the green is firm its a challenge to keep an approach below the hole. 

Kelly - remember, many folks will be hitting woods or long irons into this green so holding the back section of the green on the fly is a big ask unless the player is quite good.  I have a lot of time for this straight forward design approach - its a welcome break at Dormie.

Ciao

[Steve Kline]

After a really good drive from the regular tee I still had a 6 iron in. The next day a so-so drive left a hybrid. For many people it's going to be all they've got on the second shot.

[Sean_A]

Kelly - remember, many folks will be hitting woods or long irons into this green so holding the back section of the green on the fly is a big ask unless the player is quite good.  I have a lot of time for this straight forward design approach - its a welcome break at Dormie.

Ciao

This Is hole 13 at 390 yards?

I was imagining a wedge or 9 iron approach shot.

Yes, from the whites (there are two further back tees), its 390, but you could imagine going to the back tee, 100 yards back down the hill.

I hit driver/8 iron.  I was caught between minds trying to figure out if I should carry the green or bounce one in - should have bounced one in. I would rather be off the green below the hole than on it with 60+ foot putt

Ciao

[jeffwarne]

Kelly - remember, many folks will be hitting woods or long irons into this green so holding the back section of the green on the fly is a big ask unless the player is quite good.  I have a lot of time for this straight forward design approach - its a welcome break at Dormie.

Ciao

This Is hole 13 at 390 yards?

I was imagining a wedge or 9 iron approach shot.

It's very hard for me to imagine too many players who have chosen the white tees (with two sets further back) to be hitting 9 irons or wedges to a 394 yard hole.
But then I spend a lot of time watching players of this ability level who claim to hit it 270

[Sean_A]

I agree Jeff, even from 390 on firm ground many guys will be hitting at least mid-irons. 

Ciao

[Steve Kline]

I played one tee up from the back. Not sure of the actual yardage, but the whole was fairly lengthy. I truly hit it about 265-270 on average off the tee. 

[Sean_A]

I was thinking "Arble & Mark" (sounds quite classy and upscale, in a British way); or "Saltzman & Sean" (sounds more American upscale). Either way, they'd be "Purveyors of Fine Quality Golf Courses - Worldwide".

Pietro

You are always very gracious with your comments.  While not with Saltzy, I did have a conversation with a few chaps about a golf guides.  We figured guides for folks is well trodden so favoured the idea of a Dog's Guide to Golf.  Our preliminary discussions didn't go much further than

Ciao   

[Ronald Montesano]

Top Prize



This top dog is squatting beneath the lighthouse at Highland Links, Truro, Massachusetts...if you were unsure of the architectural merit of the post.

[Sean_A]

I had the good fortune to revisit Dormie Club a few weeks ago.  My, what an interesting design!  Its a dog gone shame they haven't built bridges and boardwalks to make the walk worth taking on.  Beside what is currently in the ground, I am struck by how influential Dormie Club is for the Sand Hills.  Do folks think Mid Pines, #2 and Pine Needles get the renovations they did without the advent of Dormie Club?  I don't think so, at least not in the very quick time frame it all happened...within 10 years of Dormie Club opening. Whatever one thinks of the design as part of Coore & Crenshaw's portfolio, it is readily apparent that this is one of their most influential courses to date. See the updated tour....scroll past Mid Pines.


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,57154.0.html


Ciao

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