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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
THE SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN New
« on: November 02, 2013, 07:29:28 PM »
I had the good fortune to visit North Carolina for a week or so.  Of course, golf was on the cards; revisits to revamped Mid-Pines and Old Town plus a look at Dormie Club and a local Raleigh course - Wildwood Green.  I visited a few interesting tourista sights along the way.  Some of it enlightenining and some downright puzzling.  Lets just say the Scots ain't got nothing on the Carolina folk when it comes to deep fried "food" :o

The day after landing at RDU we made our way to Southern Pines.  First up, Mid-Pines.  I think of all the Donald Ross courses in the Sandhills, Mid-Pines remains the only example whereby all the holes are in the same place and order as Ross designed; this is quite remarkable considering Mid-Pines opened in 1921. The other extraordinary aspect of the course are the greens; they were never changed, so for the most part what we have are essentially the greens that Ross floated out.  Of course, the K Franz renovation recaptured some of the lost greenspace which in many cases reveal the best or most difficult hole locations.  The sense of space and width offered on what I think is about a 100 acre golf course is truly spectacular. In addition to the greens, the renovation saw the removal of trees, the creation of short grass around tees and the reintroduction of sandy areas on the periphary of the holes.   

MID-PINES I&GC

The card reflects the simple demeanor of the course.




Map of the course.


The course says hello in spectacular fashion with a moderate length down n' up par 4. 


The green is deceptively uphill.  At least one extra club will be needed for the approach and (hopefully) the uphill putt.


The short 2nd too is a very good hole without being exceptional; an apt description for the entirety of Mid-Pines.


The funky third has serious drainage problems which will hopefully be sorted out in the next few years.  As of now, the hole merely serves as a gateway to the 4th, possibly the best and only great hole on the course.  Playing uphill for its entire 330 yards (from the tips), the green is reachable, but a high number is there for the ill-advised golfer.


Many tee shots will roll to the extreme right side of the fairway leaving a heroic shot to anywhere on the green, although a back hole location as seen in the photo is especially dicey.


5 & 6 are back to back 5s which so far as that concept goes works alright as a couplet.  The water is quite jarring on #5 as it can come into play for big hitters.


A very attractive tee shot, one can just make out the mess of bunkers protecting the approach and 6th green.




By the 7th I noticed a preponderance of left to right doglegs.  Wondering if the course was going to follow this pattern throughout, I discovered the front mainly plays left to right while the back plays right to left.  Generally, the fairways are wide enough to negate much of the advantage either way, but there is always the preference to the eye issue which is often overlooked.

 


The 8th is a curious short hole, very reminiscent of the style one would find in the UK.  The hole is innocent looking until a sideview of the green reveals its true nature.


Nine is a short two-shotter heading back toward the house.  At the turn and down the 10th the golfer can admire the outbuildings.  Instead of upgrading to a modern homogenized resort style, the buildings have retained the charm of yesteryear.  The 10th plays blindly over a crest, but it is the second which is interesting.  There is a nest of bunkers/waste areas protecting the lay-up and green, but its difficult to make out their precise positions.  A word about the bunkers and waste areas, apparently there are (I believe) 13 or 14 bunkers and these are identified as islands amonst grass.  The waste areas run into the pine needles; in these areas the club can be grounded.  I thought this was a clever way to delineate the two and make rulings simple.  One question though, we had a player jammed under the lip of a waste area.  There was some question as to the possibility of taking a penalty drop two club lengths no closer to the hole, but outside the waste area.  That sounded right to me, but we never had the idea confirmed.  Anyway, the approach to the 10th after a lay-up.


#11 is another short hole and one that reminded me a bit of a simplified version of Old Town's 6th.


I have a lot of time for the 12th; a sharpish legger left with probably the most severe green on the course. 




The next four holes don't really do much for me as a group.  All are very competent holes, but don't add much to the course.  The 13th is a banger par 3. 14 runs just below a ridge and calls for a right to left tee shot.  The fifteenth is a three-shotter with an oddly circular green.  It seems to me the green should spill left down the hill a bit.  16 is a sweeping downhill legger to the left.  It is the 17th which really gets the course back on track. Turning hard right, there are great deceptive waste areas to the right.  The prime driving zone is down the right for the green will not accept a shot from the safe driving zone to the left.   


The approach from the left of the fairway seems harmless, but that is far from the case.


The home hole too is terrific.  Not quite as severe a turn to the left as the 16th, but less generous off the tee. 


The green seems as if it broke free of trees and rests in a natural amphitheatre.


While very impressive, Mid-Pines does have a repetitive nature with the left/right waste areas featured so often.  Additionally, the length of the fours seem to be lacking in variety.  On the positive side, the greens are very good, the walk is splendid, there are handsome views on offer, there is plenty of width to get all classes of players around the course in a timely manner and perhaps most of important of all, Mid Pines now feels like a Sand Hills course.  Prior to the recent restoration and as is the case with many other courses in the area, the sandy nature of the site(s) were allowed to hibernate.  While I am not keen on too much sand, it has to be better than wall to wall bermuda rough.  Finally, I am impressed the design not only offers two loops of nine holes, but one can also play a few boozers loops which include 1-4; 1, 6, 17-18; 1, 6-9; 10-12, 7-9 and obviously a few longer loops.  This must be a great boon for the members looking to bounce around visiting parties.  The resort should be heartily commended for their efforts and lets hope the work eventually includes the awkward water hazard and drainage on #3.  If Mid Pines were private, I reckon it would make an outstanding members course.    1* 2013

Ciao
« Last Edit: April 24, 2020, 04:44:33 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Tyler Kearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN - Mid-Pines I&GC finished
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2013, 12:42:05 AM »
Sean,

I played Mid Pines after the Dixie Cup last month and really enjoyed the golf course.  I would certainly include it on a return trip to Pinehurst.  

I was quite enamoured with the new bunkering and rough removal, both more fitting to the sand hills setting.  The tree clearing that was undertaken has given the course a very roomy feel, and opened up nice golf course views throughout the property.  The felled trees allowed for the close proximity of greens & tees to be more greatly appreciated, namely the cluster of tees and greens at No. 1, 2, 5 & 6 and again at No. 7, 8, 11 & 12.  The green surrounds bled into the adjacent tees which helps make the course feel whole, rather than 18 different parts.  The added benefit of better air circulation and sunlight will prove beneficial to turf conditions for a good long while.  The walk was excellent and the course full of good, solid holes, but nothing overly spectacular.  I found the greens, while in very good condition, a little too subtle for my liking (faster green speeds would likely have alleviated this somewhat), with a notable exception to No. 7 which has some prominent internal contour. The other drawbacks which you noted, was the drainage on No. 3 fairway & the pond in the lay-up zone on No. 5.

TK

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN - Mid-Pines I&GC finished
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2013, 02:40:45 AM »
Splendid tour Sean. Most impressive. Thanks for sharing. Greens very 'green' - occasional maintenance I presume.
All the best

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN - Mid-Pines I&GC finished
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2013, 03:25:06 AM »
Another excellent tour Sean. Interesting looking course.

Jon

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN - Mid-Pines I&GC finished
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2013, 05:00:48 AM »
Splendid tour Sean. Most impressive. Thanks for sharing. Greens very 'green' - occasional maintenance I presume.
All the best

If the greens are an ultradwarf bermuda, which they appear to be,  they've already begun the winter "coloring process." This must be done well in advance of the turf actually going dormant. Much better than overseeding for the turf and the player.
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN - Mid-Pines I&GC finished
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2013, 09:36:31 AM »
Splendid tour Sean. Most impressive. Thanks for sharing. Greens very 'green' - occasional maintenance I presume.
All the best

If the greens are an ultradwarf bermuda, which they appear to be,  they've already begun the winter "coloring process." This must be done well in advance of the turf actually going dormant. Much better than overseeding for the turf and the player.

It was on the early morning of 10/10, a drizzly day with the dye getting on everything.  Annoying, but necessary?  Other than color/aesthetics, does it serve a purpose?  The greens are MiniVerde.  They were firm but not particularly fast.  Most of the break is created by the back to front slope, which, with many of the greens sited on high ground (numerous downhill drives and uphill approaches), can be considerable.  Enjoyable course with a very welcoming staff.  I'd bet that Sean felt right at home even without a "proper English lunch".  

Chris_Hufnagel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN - Mid-Pines I&GC finished
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2013, 10:03:16 AM »
Sean, thanks very much for the photo tour...

I leave this Thursday for a long weekend at Pinehurst and Mid-Pines - I am playing #2 on Friday and then playing Mid Pines with my hickories and McIntrye ball over the weekend.

I will post some photos from the weekend and report back...

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN - Mid-Pines I&GC finished New
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2013, 10:11:27 AM »
Tyler

Yes, the greens were a bit slow when we played, but I expect they will speed up going into winter.  I wonder if they were painted?  The colour seemed a bit unnatural to my eye.

Sweet Lou

I did plan for a fine lunch, alas, my driver, the man who was later found to be drunk with head in hands, decided it was better to wing it for directions.  Result; chili dogs on the run. 

Golf's Most Beloved Figure made an appearance for dinner and to show us round a few local pubs, one of which was the rather odd Wine Cellar in Southern Pines.  I reckon this is the new way to do wine cafes, stacks of wine with a counter available for inbibing; I rather enjoyed it, though I kept turning around hoping to get a glimpse of what was on sale.  However, GMBF kept us too busy for browsing.  The next stop was the Jefferson Inn where a tattooed lass from Bama was serving drinks.  Suffice it to say, the bar had a strange clientele which reminded me of Detrot's Cass Corridor back in the day.  Anyway, things in the S Pines Corridor seemed to be winding down so I took my very drunk pal back to his room - we were due on the tee for 9:30.   

DORMIE CLUB



About 5 miles north of Pinehurst, Coore & Crenshaw's design very much expouses the philosophy of Donald Ross; wide corridors and options.  This was my first C&C course and I wasn't disappointed.  I expected slopes, both in fairway and greens, to play a prominent role in the design and I wasn't wrong.  The greens are generally fairly large and sloping rather than having a lot of contour.  Earning the best angle in definitely pays dividends as most of the approaches can be tackled via air or ground.  While the terrain is similar to Mid-Pines, the layout and feel of Dormie is far different. The course is on a huge site with 100 feet of elevation change and two lakes.  An added benefit for the course is the housing phase is in a holding pattern.  The house is a complete contrast to the site, it is diminutive, but very much in a positive way.  If a tranquil experience was the goal of the developers, it was achieved in spades.

The view down #1 sets an admirable tone for the day.  The fairway bunkers are well short of the green and difficult to reach from the tee. They do serve to cause yardage confusion, especially for those out of position. 


The approach is deceptively uphill.


The second karooms left as if around a bank at Daytona.  There are a few holes of this ilk and perhaps C&C got a bit carried away with this style.  The short par four 3rd opens up considerably, but in practice, when the hole is cut in the rear of the green, there is little spare room. 










More to follow.

Ciao
 
« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 10:05:32 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN - Mid-Pines I&GC finished
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2013, 10:22:02 AM »
playing Mid Pines with my hickories and McIntrye ball over the weekend.

Anthony,

Thanks for the info ref winter colouring process. Is this practice common in this (or indeed other) parts of the US?

Chris,

which McIntyre ball do you use with your hickories and how does play in comparison to a modern (soft spec type) ball? Post photos of hickories too!

Sean,

Really enjoyed the Mid Pines tour. Looking to the forward rest of the Dormie Club.

All the best

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN - Mid-Pines I&GC finished
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2013, 10:26:20 AM »
Splendid tour Sean. Most impressive. Thanks for sharing. Greens very 'green' - occasional maintenance I presume.
All the best

If the greens are an ultradwarf bermuda, which they appear to be,  they've already begun the winter "coloring process." This must be done well in advance of the turf actually going dormant. Much better than overseeding for the turf and the player.

It was on the early morning of 10/10, a drizzly day with the dye getting on everything.  Annoying, but necessary?  Other than color/aesthetics, does it serve a purpose?  The greens are MiniVerde.  They were firm but not particularly fast.  Most of the break is created by the back to front slope, which, with many of the greens sited on high ground (numerous downhill drives and uphill approaches), can be considerable.  Enjoyable course with a very welcoming staff.  I'd bet that Sean felt right at home even without a "proper English lunch".  

It does serve a purpose. The color allows the mini verde to hold temperature longer and in the spring, warm up quicker. Painting of the turf is far greater than overseeding when it comes to playability. I'm sure that they are raising up the height of cut on greens to get a thick, healthier plant for the winter months.
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Chris_Hufnagel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN - Mid-Pines I&GC finished
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2013, 10:31:59 AM »
Thomas,

I play the Ouimet Ball - a photo is below...



It is a mesh pattern replica, which was played between 1905-1930.  As far as playability goes, I really like it and prefer it to a modern-day 'soft-spec ball.'

I wouldn't classify myself as an excellent hickory player (or modern-age player for that matter) - so to say I am looking for a competitive advantage when selecting my ball for my hickories would be an overstatement.  I would guess that a modern day ball might be a little longer and straighter, but I have played so few rounds with a modern ball that I am only speculating.  I will say that the McIntyre ball is certainly more cream-colored than the modern day balls, so finding them in the hay is a little more challenging.

I will send photos of my clubs and Mid-Pines next week - my set is all Tom Stewart's with the exception of my brassie...

Steve Kline

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN - Dormie Club on tap
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2013, 11:43:12 AM »
Sean - I found that back pin position on 3 at Dormie to be one of the easiest. There is a backboard and sideboards on both sides. While the green is not drivable there is a lot of strategy off the tee. Do you want a shorter shot that is easier to control or that you can run up the slopes of the green? Are willing to challenge the fairway bunker to do that and gain a better angle? A really good hole that would be fun to play on a continuous basis.

Also, I agree that the hard banking right to left fairway was overdone.

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN - Mid-Pines I&GC finished
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2013, 11:51:50 AM »
playing Mid Pines with my hickories and McIntrye ball over the weekend.

Anthony,

Thanks for the info ref winter colouring process. Is this practice common in this (or indeed other) parts of the US?

Chris,

which McIntyre ball do you use with your hickories and how does play in comparison to a modern (soft spec type) ball? Post photos of hickories too!

Sean,

Really enjoyed the Mid Pines tour. Looking to the forward rest of the Dormie Club.

All the best


Thomas,
  It is becoming more and more common to paint ultradwarfs instead of seeding. The benefits far outweigh the negatives, especially in the fall months when the conditions are perfect to enjoy golf and you're not having to play on wet, slow, soft greens as the overseed grows in. It's also much better at transition time as there is not any transition.
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Tyler Kearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN - Mid-Pines I&GC finished
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2013, 12:25:50 PM »



 

For those wondering, the lines running down the fairways at +/- 18" intervals at Dormie are a result of injections to combat a nematode infestation in the turf.

TK

Tyler Kearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN - Dormie Club on tap
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2013, 12:34:19 PM »
Sean,

Those two fairway bunkers short of the green on No. 1 are definitely out-of-play from the tee, and I wondered about them after a first play.  The second round saw my playing partners trying to extricate balls from each bunker, a result of being out-of-position from the tee and a legitimate second shot hazard for shorter hitters.  Those "randomly" placed hazards Coore & Crenshaw build seem to have a propensity for gathering poorly thought-out or executed strokes.

I thought the third green was absolutely wonderful, and I witnessed a ball slalom down a few of those tiers after being played from the back bunker with not enough authority.  There appears to be an infinite number of exciting putts on this green.

TK

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN - Dormie Club on tap
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2013, 04:28:44 PM »
Steve

We fooled around the third green for a spell and both reckoned mid left (with a great back plate), where the far left ball is located in the pic was the easiest hole location for any random shot from the fairway.  The back hole location requires a very precise shot from the left of the fairway. Anything from the right side of the fairway is problematic for any approach, but especially to the back of the green.   

Tyler

I really admire bunkers like the two on #1.  Its a modern take on the cross bunker, many of which still serve an excellent purpose in harrasing recovery shots from a less than good drive. 

DORMIE CLUB CONT

It is hard to top the third, but maybe the fourth does.  As on #2, the fairway slings left and has protecting sand on the corner.  The bunkers look small, but the land sort of feeds into the sand.  Besides, I am not sure getting tight to the sand is desireable.  It may be better to go straight and then use the left green-side slope to kill an approach.  However, I don't know how far one needs to drive to take advantage of the slope.  I expect flat bellies just plow it down the centre and are left with a finicky pitch.  To be fair, I am not sure how the finicky pitch can be avoided. Because the green was in shadows, I didn't have a clue as to how much slope fed into the green.  At some point, the ball essentially wanders straight down the slope.  The front hole location shown struck me as particularly evil.  Other than capping off great back to back holes, I was amazed the hole measured 415 yards from the blue tee; it played far shorter.




Just an incredible amount of short grass surrounding the green.


While five is definitely a different look for a water hole, I didn't care for it.  That said, it is a clever hole with wonderful geen running  away from the fairway!  The blind tee shot par five 6th didn't really do it for me, but it is different.  The trouble up the right can be had, but many will play safer left leaving an awkward second.  Its difficult to correctly guess how much the ball will roll down the slope for the approach.  I suspect this hole would grow on me with further plays. 


We then make the long walk to the 7th.  This brings up my only real issue about the design; other than the turbo boost holes turning left.  There are a few long walks between greens and tees, plus some horrid natural areas which cannot be negotiated in front of tees.  More than once I tried going through the natural areas only to be turned back by swampy conditions.  Avoiding these areas essentially means a walk down a cart path.  I didn't care for this off-course feeling.  This is a great pity because the property is magnificent. The owners should visit Addington to see how a course with tough terrain can be transformed by boardwalks and bridges.  Back to the hole at hand, this long par 3 gives the impression of exhibiting Redan-like qualities, but it doesn't really kick right. 


The 8th is yet another turbo boost hole swinging to the left.  At 472 yards from the Blue tees one had better get a boost!  The side ends with an attractive shortish one-shotter.  The green is quite interesting as it flows downhill from the right.


#9 from the 10th tee. The tier in the green can just be made out.


More to follow.

Ciao
 
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 01:43:29 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Matthew Sander

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN - Dormie Club on tap
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2013, 04:56:35 PM »
Sean,

I echo your sentiments regarding the 4th. I really like the use of counter slopes especially in the relationship between the approach and the green surrounds. The day we played, the pin was in the same position as your photo. I would imagine that when the course is playing f&f, using the slope left of the green (with the right shot shape) could get your ball pretty close to even that front right hole location. Missing the green to the right, into what may be the deepest bunker on the course (?), would seem to be an absolute no-no.

The 4th may have been my favorite hole on the course, featuring a fun (if not especially difficult) drive, and an interesting approach to the sloping green.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN - Dormie Club on tap
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2013, 05:17:12 PM »
If #4 at Mid Pines is possibly the only great hole on the course, is it also the stealthiest? How else to explain that you took no pictures of it?
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Tyler Kearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN - Dormie Club on tap
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2013, 05:21:50 PM »






Ron,

Both of the above pictures are of No. 4 at Mid Pines.

TK

Tyler Kearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN - Dormie Club on tap
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2013, 05:51:28 PM »
Sean,

The pictures do no justice to the severity of the feeder slope into No. 4 at Dormie.
The fifth green also features a fair amount of left-to-right slope, meaning the fun is only beginning once the ball lands on the green.

What did you think of the 2-3 trees along the left side of the hole corridor on No. 8?  The terrain and turbo boost seem to demand a draw from the tee, but those trees block a direct line to the green from this ideal spot.  Given the distance to the green, going over wasn't really an option, but Coore & Crenshaw certainly provided room right of the green for a big drawing approach - it just seemed to ask too much for a well executed drive.  I witnessed a number of approaches played after solid drives finished left of the one shown in the photo below.



I liked the 9th hole a lot, and consistently enjoy the C & C collection of short par 3's.

TK
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 05:54:10 PM by Tyler Kearns »

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN - Dormie Club on tap
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2013, 06:48:36 PM »
Tyler

That slope on #4 is severe, but I bet shots get hung up there.  I would need to kick some balls around that area to get a good idea of the best place to approach from and land; one go isn't enough.

The 8th, well, I didn't care for it.  First, its another booster hole left.  Second, bigger hitters are given a huge advantage.  I don't mind a few clubs difference, but I reckon one can hit a good drive and remain on top while a very good drive can bound 60-70 yards ahead onto the flat.  Thats a 6-8 club difference.  I didn't quite get to the flat and had maybe 175 in.  My playing partner had no chance from the top of the hill after a solid drive of maybe 230 yards.  Third, I there isn't a sufficent kick in from the right to help a draw along.  I think if the trees stay, then a kick in should be provided.  All in all, I think #8 is one of the least compelling holes on the course.  In fact, while Dormie has more highs than Mid-Pines, I think it also has more lows.  The variety of shots and holes at Dormie is incredible.

DORMIE CLUB CONT 

The 10th is a monster three-shotter bending left around (or over) some muckish vegetation.  I didn't realize the hazard was there until walking much further up the fairway, which incidentally slopes toward the trouble.  Upon reaching the second shot, the full wonder of the hole was revealed.  I am not sure what to make of this hole, but first impressions weren't overly positive.  Once again, however, the green was very good in a somewhat subdued way. 


I found the blind approach 11th quite perplexing if not wholly satisfying. The wee 12th is the sort of hole which always intrigues.  We decided to play the awkward length of 99 yards from the whites.  Of course, danger lurks, but there is predictably even more than meets the eye. 


On #13, once again, we chose to play the white tees (394 yards), mainly because my playing partner didn't like the open field look of the tee shot further back, down the slope.  I really enjoyed the "nothingness" of this hole after the previous several holes.  The approach is very handsome and quite deceptive.  There is a swale just shy of the green and a kick in bank to the left.  Using the bank will likely propel the ball to the back of the green. 


More to follow.

Ciao
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 01:50:39 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Tyler Kearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN - Dormie Club on tap
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2013, 07:13:53 PM »
Sean,

The hazard on No. 10 used to extend right across the fairway, although in speaking to a member, the current hazard is going to be filled-in.  Coore & Crenshaw were forced to keep it due to environmental regulations, however, it is no longer defined as wetlands.  In addition to No. 8, our group found this to be the weakest link.  Again, it seems like a much easier hole for the longer hitter, as the lay-up second shot (not across the hazard) is to the narrowest portion of the fairway and leaves a monster third shot into the green.  Getting close to the hazard off the tee is ideal as it makes the shot across the hazard much less daunting, although the height of the vegetation in the hazard limits visibility and makes the landing area appear much smaller than it is.

Much like No. 9, I felt the 12th was another standout short one-shotter which featured some excellent green contours.

TK

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN - Dormie Club on tap
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2013, 08:37:17 PM »

While very impressive, Mid-Pines does have a repetitive nature with the waste areas featured so often.  Additionally, the lengths of the fours seem to be lacking in variety.

Ciao

I love the insights but cannot agree with either of these impressions.  I thought there was a wide variety in par four effective hole lengths and the waste areas seemed like a significant improvement over bermuda rough such as can be found across the street.  

Sean - did you play Number 2?  I suspect you would find the waste areas there much more repetitive than here.  There is less elevation change on most of Number 2 so the waste areas seemed much more prominent to me.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN - Dormie Club on tap
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2013, 04:35:46 AM »
Tyler

I agree, the longer hitter has a huge advantage on #10.  Though I didn't like the juxtaposition of the wetland area with the Principal's Nose, the two are not congruous.

Jason

I definitely agree that the waste areas at Mid Pines are an improvement over what was there previously.  That said, the stuff is basically a lot of bunkering right and left.  Mind you, the most important aspect of the waste areas is they make Mid-Pines a Sand Hills course.  Previously, the design did not reflect the character of the turf and soil.  I just wish the waste areas were toned down a bit.  I also would like to have seen at least one huge waste area covering a few holes and creating effectively a cross bunker situation.  But I understand this was a renovation so that wasn't on the cards so far as I know. 

We played a mix of blue and white tees which was probably about 6300 yards.  Thinking on my approaches for the 4s; they ranged from 3 wedges, 3 eight irons which were punches or after a poor drive (which were wedge length), 2 six irons (one of which was 8 iron distance) and 2 five irons.  There aren't really any long, testing 4s on the course - definitely a weakness in my book.  I would like to see a bit more variety in that department.

I did not play #2; the price is just too steep for me.  I can appreciate the course will look very different today, but the greens were always my main issue with the design.  Forking out the cash would likely lead to huge dissapointment.  Besides, I was quite content playing Mid-Pines and Dormie plus a b&b for considerably less than a game at #2.   

DORMIE CLUB CONT.

Short, but steeply uphill, #14 does offer the banger a chance to hammer one home.  I get the impression that erring left or right can result in a tough recovery.  The green is fairly narrow so approaching from outside a narrow section of the corridor even from the fairway can be considered a recovery shot; clever design. 


Perhaps the best aspect of the current style of architecture of which C&C are leading proponents is the emphasis on recovery shots.  IMO, any course which focuses on this attribute cannot go far wrong.


Now then, #15.  This must be considered the wow hole at Dormie.  Its certainly intimidating from either the blue or black tee.  I wasn't sure of the carry distance, but I guessed maybe 210 yards from the white tee hitting between the bunkers and longer if hitting more toward the green.  One can play toward the left bunker, but we both thought that would leave a horrible approach. 


Once in the fairway, the approach is bewildering.  My instincts told me a shot rolling down from the left would work, but I instead hit a full 9 to the left side of the green.  In retrospect, it would have been better to play to the middle or right side of the green.  Going above the hole on the left leaves little scope for a downhill putt to stop.  Additionally, if one doesn't carry the green and get some grip, its dead easy to shoot off the down slope shy of the green and slip over the putting surface; its dead back there.




Perhaps most impressive of all concerning the 15th is the forward tee.  In my failed attempt to traverse the ravine I had a good look at the 260ish yard white tee.  Its quite an interesting hole from that angle to the far left.

More to follow.

Ciao
 
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 01:59:01 PM by Sean_A »
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Bill_McBride

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Re: The SAND HILLS & OLD TOWN - Dormie Club on tap
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2013, 08:28:03 AM »
Re: 15 at the a Dormie Club, it's apparent that C&C have a higher opinion of the average player's carry distance reality.  When I played it first a couple of years ago, the gunch shirt if the fairway was impenetrable.  Lost ball.  Look now, it's not only possible to find a ball in there but it will likely be playable.  There has been much bush hogging.  

The short tees on both 5 and 15 are available to shorter hitters, but I have to say you feel like a punk playing from there.  ::) ::).   I think it's a major fault of the course that those two two holes don't have a tee requiring a carry of say 160 yards.  

Otherwise there are a lot of really good holes, possibly not including 10, and I love the golf only, small clubhouse, low key vibe.  

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