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JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
I see the decline in golf more through the Bowling Alone prism.  There are fewer clubs of any sort nowadays that meet in real life.  Elks, Kiwanis, etc. People don't drink as much and fear the consequences of drinking and driving...those Wednesday night golf, bowling or softball leagues have all taken a hit.  Women nowadays don't like their husbands being gone three nights a week especially when she works as much or more than her husband.

I would also submit that I wouldn't want to be gone three nights a week even if my wife didn't care. I have a (almost) three-year-old daughter and a 7-month-old son. I'm not interested in being a Don Draper-type dad. I like to play golf, and my wife is actually a golfer and likes it when I play, but it's just not going to happen that much right now. Partially because I just don't have that much time, partially because I prioritize other activities more than golf, and partially because I just don't have that much disposable income.

I've been playing more tennis instead, which I took up when I stopped playing basketball about 8 or 10 years ago. I wish I'd started when I was younger. You need one other person, it's cheap, it's fun, and you can get a lot of exercise in an hour or two.

My target is 20 rounds of golf per year; not sure I will get there this year.

Richard Hetzel

  • Karma: +0/-0
I have the income, I just lack the time. It's the only reason I have not ponied up and joined a club. With 4 kids in all sorts of activities I have to put that first and a few years ago I was easily getting in 30-40 "NEW" golf courses in a season, now I struggle to get 15 "NEW" courses under my belt.

One has to wonder, had the great depression never occurred at the scale it did, would golf be even more inaccessible? I think many of the CCC and the WPA work built many municipal golf courses that brought golf to the masses.

Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
I believe the decline of the game is exagerated, and in essence it is just returning to normal after a sudden "Tiger" effect.
The boom in interest that accompanied the rise of arguably the greatest golfer of all time, never really translated into a numbers increase in a manner that was widely anticipated and I think the lack of rise is a better description of what we are really seeing.

The decline in the number of courses via closures is just a sign that there were too many courses built, I think we all agree with that.
The nature of the game with its time restraints will always make it a game for those with the most time on their hands, the fortunate ones who can allocate such time to the game.
It is exepensive to play, not because of the equipment but just the playing field upon which it is played.
The huge growth in numbers of the driving range phenomna that is TOP GOLF suggests there is interest out there if the cost of playing is moderated in some fashion.
IF the game is going to truly grow more affordable locations to play are essential , it is not in my opion 15" holes of any other gimmicks, but I fear it will be as it has always been, a game for the privelaged few.

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Michael, your post is entirely too sensible and reasonable.

Golf is not devolving into an activity for the wealthy, leisured class.  It has, for the most part, always been that.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 03:49:40 PM by Brian Hoover »

Brent Hutto

What do you mean by "wealthy"? If that means "not on food stamps" or "not bankrupt and jobless" then I guess golf is a game for the wealthy. But seriously I've played regularly with a guy who gets paid by the hour working as a drywall hanger, another who's an industrial welder, retired postal workers, a guy who along with his wife cleans houses for a living, all kinds of people at somewhere well under the median household income.

Do they play 120 rounds a year at an elite private club with caddies? Of course not. Some of these folks squeeze their entertainment budget a bit to play three times a month at a $25 public course. But they play golf.

I do continually, not just in this thread, wonder what kind of isolated and rarefied world some of you guys live in. It's like you don't even know that half the golfers in the world EXIST. Amazing.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 03:57:19 PM by Brent Hutto »

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
How about the "relatively" wealthy, leisured class?  According to the government, I am wealthy.  I can assure you that is not the case.

Brent, if you are a member of a golf club, then you are a member of that rarified group as well.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 04:23:56 PM by Brian Hoover »

Eric Strulowitz

  • Karma: +0/-0
What do you mean by "wealthy"? If that means "not on food stamps" or "not bankrupt and jobless" then I guess golf is a game for the wealthy. But seriously I've played regularly with a guy who gets paid by the hour working as a drywall hanger, another who's an industrial welder, retired postal workers, a guy who along with his wife cleans houses for a living, all kinds of people at somewhere well under the median household income.

Do they play 120 rounds a year at an elite private club with caddies? Of course not. Some of these folks squeeze their entertainment budget a bit to play three times a month at a $25 public course. But they play golf.

I do continually, not just in this thread, wonder what kind of isolated and rarefied world some of you guys live in. It's like you don't even know that half the golfers in the world EXIST. Amazing.

There is a private club not too far where I live, they opened up  for the public on Mondays.  They  were running a special, don't know if it is still available, for $20 after 3pm.    There are some amazing deals right now, not only online but coupons you find in local papers.  Cost is a factor, but I don't think it is a primary one for the "decline" in golf.  A round of golf can be cheaper then dinner at a local restaurant.  Of course, it will not be a marquee facility most likely, but this type of golfer is probably not interested in that any way.

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Brent,
Not knowing that half the golfers exist is not true, but when the game is viewed as a whole which is what the thread question asks, then the bottom line is that the game in general has not differed much in to whom it appeals in at least the past 50 years.
Are there people playing who dry wall....of course, can you play at places for $20 ...of course but in general terms it is still a game for the "better off" as the numbers continually show.

Brent Hutto

What numbers show that, Michael?

There are golf courses for wealthy people.

There are golf courses for relatively well-off people.

There are golf courses for people who think of $30 as a splurge expenditure.

There are no golf courses (as far as I've seen) for people living below the poverty line.

All these things were true when I started playing the game (back when Tiger was still in short pants) and I've seen no change in the fact that all four things are true today. Not sure what "numbers" are supposedly showing that only the courses for "wealthy" and "relatively well off" people are going to be there a year or a decade from now, with the ones for "people who think of $30 as a splurge" will be gone. I've seen no evidence of that at all.

Brent Hutto

Just to state the obvious, the fact that some golf courses do indeed cater to golfers in the top couple of percent of personal wealth does not to any degree, in any way change the fact that many more golf courses are out there catering to anyone who can afford a $30 green fee.

It's like saying eating out is only for the wealthy because a bunch of restaurants in New York or Chicago cater to people spending $400 a plate on a meal. There are still millions of folks eating out tonight who will never spend $400 on a meal.

J Sadowsky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Not everyone wants the Veblen goods that pass as the norm for equipment at many clubs and courses.

Here we go again. Titleist equipment is not a "Veblen good". I resent the implication that because I want gorgeous equipment with fantastic lines and typography that I am somehow deluding myself into thinking that it must be desirable because it is expensive. My blades look like fine art when compared to the hobbyist components, which resemble Legos. Everyone knows there is value in that.

Wait...is this sincere or parody?  I can make an argument that Titlist is not a Veblen good, of course, but this seems to be an argument that it is.  If you pay more because the equipment is supposedly "gorgeous" with "fantastic lines," as opposed to playability, and we are talking about...golf clubs...I think you are saying you desire your Titlists because of their cost.  If it's parody, I apologize - I honestly could not tell either way.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 05:30:11 PM by J Sadowsky »

Lyndell Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
A lot of valid points, IMHO golf will survive at all levels  because it is  unique  in that the playing field is the varying factor. Golf can be enjoyed on a goat track for a small fee or on hallowed ground for a much greater price or by invitation. It is a great game that has many nuances. Turf conditions,Terrain ,Design, Weather, Skill level, Playing  Format, Playing Partners, Event variation. Walk , Ride  I'm sure there are others but what sport can compete with these. I have been in the business for many years to me not that much has changed, prices for golf are affordable depending where you play. I do think players expect more from there courses these days so you have to keep up the turf. Golf participation follows closely with the economic condition of the country and the  available time of the participant . JMO

Jim Nelson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Golf is an addiction.  I would posit that all of the people who post or read the posts here are addicted to the game.  How did you become addicted?  For me, it was heading out with my friends after work to an "Executive" course with a few short par 4s mixed in with mostly par 3's.  No intimidation.  Low cost.  Lots of laughs.  I am not sure I would have become addicted to golf if I had to first play on a full length "Championship" course with all the attendant pressure.  People watching.  What to wear.  I suck.  It seems that most of  the advertising is aimed at elite golfers as others have mentioned. 

I spend the summers in Tahoe and almost daily drive by the short course in Brockway which, legend has it, was the original site of the Crosby.  The first couple of holes are visible from the road and guess what… they are almost always full.  Young, old, carts and walking.  Reduce intimidation, cost and time and people will come and some will get addicted.  The rest will take care of itself.
I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world.  This makes it hard to plan the day.  E. B. White

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
The game is alive and well in small town America.  

County statistics where I grew up:

Non-farm employment down 6.0% from 2011 to 2012
10.3% unemployment
$33,000 median household income
28,000 population
10.8% of population with a bachelor's degree or higher
26.1% of population below poverty level

I'd be surprised if the 9-hole club has more than 200 members, paying $85/month.  I'm guessing they mow the fairways twice a week and might cut the greens every other day.  Nobody cares.   Except when the pool's open (my first job in 1972 making $40/week) headcount is probably 4 - a club "manager/bookkeeper,"  bartender, superintendent and helper.  Course was in as good a shape as I can remember during my recent visit.   No food service and no golf shop.  Everybody rides and the cart fleet has long been paid for.  No tee times and average round is 1:15.  

And you thought you had it good.

If the game's dying, we've inflicted a few wounds ourselves.  

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Eric Strulowitz

  • Karma: +0/-0
The game is alive and well in small town America.  

County statistics where I grew up:

Non-farm employment down 6.0% from 2011 to 2012
10.3% unemployment
$33,000 median household income
28,000 population
10.8% of population with a bachelor's degree or higher
26.1% of population below poverty level

I'd be surprised if the 9-hole club has more than 200 members, paying $85/month.  I'm guessing they mow the fairways twice a week and might cut the greens every other day.  Nobody cares.   Except when the pool's open (my first job in 1972 making $40/week) headcount is probably 4 - a club "manager/bookkeeper,"  bartender, superintendent and helper.  Course was in as good a shape as I can remember during my recent visit.   No food service and no golf shop.  Everybody rides and the cart fleet has long been paid for.  No tee times and average round is 1:15.  

And you thought you had it good.

If the game's dying, we've inflicted a few wounds ourselves.  

Bogeythis.


I loved reading this Michael, reminds me of courses I played growing up.  I live in a major metropolitan area, there are few courses like this.
Just basic golf, no fancy clubhouses, no food service, no catering for weddings and the like, what a wonderful thought.   We have gotten so away from all that.  The last 20 years, lushness and green, amazing palatial clubhouses, designs penal just for the sake of it, etc.  Golf became in many places an anchor for residential communities, the  game got lost.    I think we got carried away with it all.  And we never even thought it would ever end, build they will come.   

 
I have played many rounds in the UK, and applaud how low key many of the clubs are, and how they are about golf. Even at some of the really famous venues, it is more about golf and less about the clubhouse, catering, selling homes,  etc.   I was amazed at how basic some of the facilities are, but they are really not basic at all, quite functional.  Because it is about the game first.  We forgot about the game first, and got obsessed with all that surrounded the game. 

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