[Dieter Jones]

Im watching the tiger v rory match from mission hills. Tiger forgetting he is miked up and dropping the f bomb is amusing if nothing else as the commentators scramble to apologize for his fruity language.

What I am finding interesting is that the crowd largely has no idea of the expected etiquette in golf. Sure they are allowed inside the ropes (including standing around in the bunkersetc) so it is always going to be more intimate than a standard tournament. What interests me most is that both players are just blocking it out and getting on with it.

On every tee shot the crowd continues to chatter and the camera noise starts at set up and continues all throughout the swing. I know there is nothing more than pride on the line but could this type of crowd interaction work in a tournament? I know tennis toyed with the idea of letting people move around and talk etc during points. Hell only the planes drown out the crowd noise at the us open tennis.

I'm really talking about the whole total silence aspect rather than encouraging boreish behavior. To me there is nothing worse than the yobbo yelling "get in the hole" or "you da man" but are golfer just too precious for the good of the game?

[Garland Bayley]

Yes, golfers are too precious.

If a basketball player can make free throws with all the distractions the opposing crowds throw up, then a golfer should be able to play on with crowd noise. Throwing people out of tournament crowd for perceived slights by prima donna golfers is ridiculous.

[Jon Wiggett]

GJ,

I do not think you can compare one sport to another. There are certain standards that are expected in every sport and in golf it is expected that people are quiet when a player hits a shot.

Jon

[Garland Bayley]

I think they are professionals, and they should deal with it. They are paid to play and to entertain. They are not paid to police the attendees. I don't think you will end up with a situation like the free throw scenario I mentioned. That was purely for illustration of the depth of concentration a player should have. However, I think the people with the quiet signs at tournaments should be done away with.

Noise happens.

[Jon Wiggett]

GJ,

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I would expect you to be quiet when I hit my shot professional or not. I suspect you will find most other golfers would to.

Jon

[Garland Bayley]

Jon,

I play in a Monday series of seniors golf events. What I have found is that we high handicappers tend to keep yakking away while others are playing their shots, and these others don't even notice. Every once in awhile we get a real scorecard player with a low handicap in our foursome. We get scolded for our behavior and enjoy our rounds less while we kowtow to his highness the scorecard player. These guys can't even stand to see our balls sitting on the green while they putt and insist we mark our balls and remove them. We think they should get a proper sense of perspective. And, maybe we could get through our golf round faster if it weren't for the despicable habits of low handicappers.

[Matthew Petersen]

I'm not sure pro golfers are as "precious" as is being assumed here.

When I attend an event in person, I'm typically surprised at the amount of ambient noise--bathroom doors banging, chatter from a nearby concession area, noise from adjacent holes, crowded grandstands. Players go on about their business through all of this with no fuss I ever recall. To get prickly about that sort of thing would be precious., and out of line, because ambient noise is part of the game and you and I wouldn't be bent out of shape about noise from a road, hotel, airport, or whatever. But if someone in your group makes a sudden noise during your swing, that's a different thing and based on that I can relate to the frustration of sudden gallery/camera noise when a player is swinging.

[Jon Wiggett]

GJ,

guess you prove your own point

Jon

[mike_beene]

I am amazed that there have not been deliberate attempts to yell during a backswing when the spectator stands to win or lose with the bookmakers and the wrong guy is winning.Noise or no noise it is the ill timed surprise that will mess a player up.

[Joe Leenheer]

Yes, golfers are too precious.

If a basketball player can make free throws with all the distractions the opposing crowds throw up, then a golfer should be able to play on with crowd noise. Throwing people out of tournament crowd for perceived slights by prima donna golfers is ridiculous.

Really?  You are comparing Golf to Basketball?  We all know that Golf is more then a game which is what all other sports are.  Golf is a way of life. It has it's own language, a code of conduct, a "spirit", and it transcends the word "sport" on many levels.  

Yes we've seen the top players urge the crown to erupt on the first tee at Ryder Cups....but they wouldn't dare do that when trying to knock in a two footer for a halve.  Golf is the hardest game out there....and we don't need spectators hooting and hollering to make it more difficult.

Maybe your group of Monday "High Handicap" Seniors would shoot some better scores and lower your handicaps if you practices a little more etiquette and put in a bit more focus....but if what you are looking for is a social event and your score second or third fiddle...then who are we to judge....enjoy!  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Yes, golfers are too precious.

If a basketball player can make free throws with all the distractions the opposing crowds throw up, then a golfer should be able to play on with crowd noise. Throwing people out of tournament crowd for perceived slights by prima donna golfers is ridiculous.

Garland,

What's the lowest handicap you ever had ?

And, have you ever competed in a significant medal play tournament ?

If so, which one ?

You don't have a clue about "golf", etiquette and competition.

Golfers call penalties on themselves.

They don't pretend to make catches they know they didn't make

They don't "flop" in an attempt to get a penalty called upon their opponent.

You don't see football players calling "holding" or "interference" on themselves.
You don't see basketball players calling "walking, charging, blocking or other fouls" on themselves.

Other sports are reactive.
Other sports have the opponents competing or vying for the same ball.
Other sports have players not actively engaged with the ball during a play.
The golfer is engaged with the ball on every play.

Let's bet $ 10,000 on a shot or putt, and let us engage in whatever antics we chose as you attempt your shot/putt, then tell me how you feel after you've just lost $ 10,000.   Then, let's do it for the difference in prize money at the U.S. Open and tell us how you feel about this subject

[Garland Bayley]

"You don't see basketball players calling "walking, charging, blocking or other fouls" on themselves."

Actually it's very common that they do.
When played without referees like golf, then it happens all the time.

My use of basketball was to show the level of concentration people are capable of. I did not intend for golf crowds to engage in the basketball spectator behavior. IMO quiet conversation should be entirely acceptable. I think outlawing cameras for their distraction capability is treating golfers too precious. Outlawing them for protection of copyright rights or what ever legal thing applies makes more sense to me if a tour chose to do that.

[Colin Macqueen]

My dear Garland,

Where on earth did you get this notion of yours from!

Golf at all levels has always been played in a serene and tranquil environment. The inner thoughts and fears of the golfer must be allowed to bubble and dwell without any distractions from the outside world crashing in. Being left to stew in one's own juice is one of the joys of the "gemme"! The peaceful, nay transcendental, nature of the game is one of its paramount virtues. This state of grace should not be disturbed by raucous, ignorant or rude interjection!

It may be that golf spectators in the USA have meandered from this virtuous path and found themselves in the thickets of brashness and sadly may be perceiving crass noise as a normal response.

No, no, no, no, no…… . golfers can never be too precious as you yourself so clearly indicated in response #5! No need for the elite, scratch man or the lowliest, scrabbling "rabbit" to have to put up with banalities from the bleachers. Be precious ........ we deserve it!

Cheers Colin

[Garland Bayley]

...
Golf at all levels has always been played in a serene and tranquil environment. ...

This is not true. Read the biography of Old Tom Morris, and you will find that his life was in danger at certain away matches.
Read the biography of James Braid and you will find physical harm possible due to the raucous behavior of the spectators.

So competition golf for money has long been an unserene and nontraquil environment.

[Patrick_Mucci]

"You don't see basketball players calling "walking, charging, blocking or other fouls" on themselves."

Actually it's very common that they do.

Baloney

When played without referees like golf, then it happens all the time.

More baloney.

Their opponents call the penalty, not the player guilty of the infraction

I played full court basketball into my 50's, three times a week, and NO ONE called a foul on themselves.

My use of basketball was to show the level of concentration people are capable of.

At what task ?
There's a different skill set required for dribbling than for Neurosurgery.
Ditto for making a side hill, down hill 4 footer on a green stimping at 13, for $ 1,000,000 and a place in golfing immortality.


I did not intend for golf crowds to engage in the basketball spectator behavior.

But once you approve of "crowd noise" where does it stop.
Do the fans rooting for player "A"  wait until the right moment to heckle/rattle player "B" ?

It's a very slippery and dangerous slope

IMO quiet conversation should be entirely acceptable.

I'm not sure that anyone is opposed to quiet, non-invasive conversation, but, then again, who decides ?
Isn't it better to have everyone remain respectful and quiet rather than get into the adjudication process.

I think outlawing cameras for their distraction capability is treating golfers too precious.

When there's silence, and in the middle of a stroke, a camera's click, it can be distracting.

There are days when you can shoot off a gun and it won't bother me.
Then, there are days when collateral noise is disconcerting.
The problem is, I don't know which day it will be when I tee it up on the first tee.

Outlawing them for protection of copyright rights or what ever legal thing applies makes more sense to me if a tour chose to do that.

So how did we go from respectful, knowledgeable galleries to collosal morons screaming, "get in the hole" as a golfer tees off on a par 5 ?

I prefer a NO or miniscule tolerance policy.

[Garland Bayley]

...
I played full court basketball into my 50's, three times a week, and NO ONE called a foul on themselves.[/size][/color]
...

Since this experience is unique to you, perhaps it is you that inspired the lack of etiquette in the games.

You certainly lack etiquette in internet posting.

[Patrick_Mucci]

...
I played full court basketball into my 50's, three times a week, and NO ONE called a foul on themselves.[/size][/color]
...

Since this experience is unique to you, perhaps it is you that inspired the lack of etiquette in the games.

You've proven yourself a collosal moron once again.
I've also observed thousands of games and NO ONE calls fouls on themselves.

How much street/pickup basketball have you played ?    With MEN ?

You certainly lack etiquette in internet posting

I see, I disagree with you or prove you wrong and that's bad internet etiquette.

Now, instead of being just a collosal moron, you're also wimp..

[Garland Bayley]

David,

As I believe D stands for. If you read my posts, you would have read that I would find talking quietly acceptable.

I never condoned yelling such as is done at basketball games, I only pointed out that the game has not had the genteel history that some would make out that it has had. If you read my posts you would find that the basketball free throw example was a demonstration of the ability of true competitors to concentrate and shut out the surroundings, not an example of behavior that should be allowed at golf tournaments.

As for observations of pick up basketball games, when playing with gentlemen it is my experience that seldom does the offended player need to call foul, as the offending player has already called it. The necessity of calling fouls on the cheat who would purposely foul and not call it got one such cheat banished from the University gym where I played my pick up games 4 or 5 days a week, and he was on the University faculty. Not only was he on the faculty, he was a Holy Cross priest. In a short time, he was denied tenure and moved on.

[Jon Wiggett]

GJ,

your comparison with basketball is flawed. The basketball player is expecting the noise, indeed probably requires it. If he was to hear a sound that was unexpected then he would probably preform lower than he normally would.

Jon

[Carl Nichols]

Serious, non-rhetorical question:

Do people believe there is something much more difficult about hitting a golf ball than, say, hitting a baseball, such that quiet is required for the former but not the latter?  NOTE:  This is not a question about whether a golfer expecting quiet will be affected by loud noise; I assume that's the case, but one could also say the same about baseball if the rule were that you had to be quiet during at-bats.  The question instead is about whether golf's rule about quiet is necessary or appropriate for reasons relating to performance, or if it's really just about decorum.  

[Dwight Phelps]

I think that tour players are sometimes over-the-top regarding the crowd noise, but the, I've never had to hit shots with hundred of thousands of dollars on the line.

I have always wondered about Tiger, though.  There were all those stories about him practicing and his dad using an air horn in the middle of his backswing, and he's always seemed like the most sensitive to this stuff (camera shutters, etc.)  If he grew up practicing with an air horn, why's he bothered by a camera click?

I think if cheering were allowed, Tour players would get used to it pretty quick and scores would likely not suffer terribly, I just don't see golf going in that direction.  I like the tranquility.  I can't even imagine what the Masters would be like if they allowed active cheering.  Kind of freaks me out just to think about.

[Carl Nichols]

"You don't see basketball players calling "walking, charging, blocking or other fouls" on themselves."

Actually it's very common that they do.

Baloney

When played without referees like golf, then it happens all the time.

More baloney.

Their opponents call the penalty, not the player guilty of the infraction

I played full court basketball into my 50's, three times a week, and NO ONE called a foul on themselves.

My use of basketball was to show the level of concentration people are capable of.

At what task ?
There's a different skill set required for dribbling than for Neurosurgery.
Ditto for making a side hill, down hill 4 footer on a green stimping at 13, for $ 1,000,000 and a place in golfing immortality.


I did not intend for golf crowds to engage in the basketball spectator behavior.

But once you approve of "crowd noise" where does it stop.
Do the fans rooting for player "A"  wait until the right moment to heckle/rattle player "B" ?

It's a very slippery and dangerous slope

IMO quiet conversation should be entirely acceptable.

I'm not sure that anyone is opposed to quiet, non-invasive conversation, but, then again, who decides ?
Isn't it better to have everyone remain respectful and quiet rather than get into the adjudication process.

I think outlawing cameras for their distraction capability is treating golfers too precious.

When there's silence, and in the middle of a stroke, a camera's click, it can be distracting.

There are days when you can shoot off a gun and it won't bother me.
Then, there are days when collateral noise is disconcerting.
The problem is, I don't know which day it will be when I tee it up on the first tee.

Outlawing them for protection of copyright rights or what ever legal thing applies makes more sense to me if a tour chose to do that.

So how did we go from respectful, knowledgeable galleries to collosal morons screaming, "get in the hole" as a golfer tees off on a par 5 ?

I prefer a NO or miniscule tolerance policy.

Pat:
In the 50's or in your 50's?  

[Garland Bayley]

GJ,

your comparison with basketball is flawed. The basketball player is expecting the noise, indeed probably requires it. If he was to hear a sound that was unexpected then he would probably preform lower than he normally would.

Jon

No, the comparison is not flawed. Put the golfer putting in the basketball arena. I suggest he will know how to tune out the noise just as the basketball player does. Put the basketball player on the line at a relatively quiet golf setting, and unexpectedly click an SLR camera in the middle of his shooting stroke. I expect the results to be similar to clicking during a golf stroke.

Perhaps basketball crowds should be silent during opponents free throws except of course the designated air horn blower.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Serious, non-rhetorical question:

Do people believe there is something much more difficult about hitting a golf ball than, say, hitting a baseball, such that quiet is required for the former but not the latter?  

Carl,

I think the answre is "yes" for a number of reasons.

First, the batter has the luxury of knowing that he'll get more than one attempt.
Second, the batter knows that the pitcher is imperfect.
In some cases, the batter can just stand there and let the pitcher self destruct (4 balls)
Third, the batter doesn't have to play his foul balls, he gets additional chances irrespective of where the ball lands on the ground outside of the foul lines.  The golfer has to contend with having to subsequently play errant balls that he's hit.
Fourth, one swing doesn't have the potential for ruining the match for the baseball player.
Fifth, the golfer needs both power and finesse, a highly skilled touch.
Sixth, baseball is a team sport, golf is an individual sport, hence the golfer gets no support, only competitors and he has 139 of them at the same time.

NOTE:  This is not a question about whether a golfer expecting quiet will be affected by loud noise; I assume that's the case, but one could also say the same about baseball if the rule were that you had to be quiet during at-bats.  The question instead is about whether golf's rule about quiet is necessary or appropriate for reasons relating to performance, or if it's really just about decorum.  

I think it's both

[Patrick_Mucci]

[quote author=Jon Wiggett link=topic=57114.msg1330827#msg1330827 date=1383087224
GJ,

your comparison with basketball is flawed. The basketball player is expecting the noise, indeed probably requires it. If he was to hear a sound that was unexpected then he would probably preform lower than he normally would.

Jon

No, the comparison is not flawed. Put the golfer putting in the basketball arena. I suggest he will know how to tune out the noise just as the basketball player does. Put the basketball player on the line at a relatively quiet golf setting, and unexpectedly click an SLR camera in the middle of his shooting stroke. I expect the results to be similar to clicking during a golf stroke.

Perhaps basketball crowds should be silent during opponents free throws except of course the designated air horn blower.



Garland,

On the first shot, the golfer can ruin his round.
With the basketball player, it doesn't matter if he hits or misses the first shot.

Basketball is a team sport comprised of offense and defense.

There is no defense in golf.  (BRING BACK THE STYMIE)

In basketball you're playing against but one opponent.

In golf you're playing againsts 139 opponents, where each and everyshot is critical.

In addition, in golf, there's a continuum that doesn't exist in basketball.
If the golfer hits it into deep thick rough, or in the woods, he has to play it from there.
In basketball, either he hits the shot or his team or the other team gets the ball and there's little in the way of adverse consequences associated with each shot.

In addition, in basketball, the shot is static.
The rim is exactly 10 feet from the floor on every court.
The foul line 15 feet from every basket.
No wind, no rain, no cold, no heat.
In golf, just the opposite is true.
Every shot is different and the elements, even the speed of the green (court) varies every day.

In one sport, the actions are almost all physical reflex actions whereas in golf they almost always require a thought process followed by a physical action, with grave concern for any adverse consequences

[/size]
[/quote]

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()