US Open venues now relegated to “lesser” events?

[David Kelly]

You don't really believe that golf course raters are totally objective and exclude a certain exclusivity from their ratings do you?

That's lazy thinking.  There was a consensus on many of the classic, private courses listed in this thread long before Golf Digest started putting out lists.

[Garland Bayley]

Cliff,

Pacific Dunes?
Old MacDonald?
Bandon Trails?
Bandon Dunes?

I only put these up, because I have played them.
Even though they lack exclusivity, they beat a huge percentage of the privates.

If I would go to New York and had a choice between Bethpage and Winged Foot, I would choose Bethpage because of the land.

From the Confidential Guide:
"there is nothing intrinsically unique about the course in contour or scenery; it seems like one ought to build a course just like it on any piece of parkland, given enough land and the courage to build green complexes this severe."
"a layout of unmistakable quality throughout. Some of the bunkers are cavernous, and there is plenty of contour at hand to lend character to a number of outstanding holes"

I think you know which course is being described in each quote.

[Garland Bayley]

You don't really believe that golf course raters are totally objective and exclude a certain exclusivity from their ratings do you?

That's lazy thinking.  There was a consensus on many of the classic, private courses listed in this thread long before Golf Digest started putting out lists.

That's lazy thinking. You think only golf course raters are influenced by exclusivity?

[Tommy Williamsen]

Of your list Baltusrol and Oakland Hills are the most likely to have Opens. 

[David Kelly]

You don't really believe that golf course raters are totally objective and exclude a certain exclusivity from their ratings do you?

That's lazy thinking.  There was a consensus on many of the classic, private courses listed in this thread long before Golf Digest started putting out lists.

That's lazy thinking. You think only golf course raters are influenced by exclusivity?

I was addressing what you wrote, not what you didn't write but which occurred to you afterwards.

[Garland Bayley]

David,

That's BS.

What's your explanation for the flowery description of a course rated 6 versus the dismissive description of a course rated 9 given above?

[Chris DeToro]

Obviously there's a lot more that goes into who hosts the Open than just quality of course such as the ability to host patrons, transportation to and from the course, reasonable accommodation for players and fans, etc.  But I guess every once in a while, it would be great to limit it so that the US Open can go back to a Merion or course of similar ilk.

[Ronald Montesano]

For those that attended the Open at Merion, was it worth it? All the restrictions on movement, even with truncated ticket sales, which led to minimized vantage points for viewing? I wonder if folks are looking at it with rose-colored glasses. The Walker Cup had no issues with movement and is the ideal event for Merion, here and forever on. It would be the same for Myopia, Charles River, Kebo Valley and other courses of dwarfed footprint. The Open business machine has simply passed them by.

[Cliff Hamm]

Ron...how right you are.  The course looked spectacular, if you could envision it without the USGA changes.

Have been to many, many US Opens and this was the worst from a spectator point of view.  I usually try to watch from the ropes, but gave up.  Enjoyed the bleacher where you could watch 18 drives and shots into 17.  But not great for spectators to say the least.  Not to even mention the awful mud from the rain....Great course, just doesn't have the infrastructure for an Open unless they want to limit it to 15k or so.

[jeffwarne]

For those that attended the Open at Merion, was it worth it? All the restrictions on movement, even with truncated ticket sales, which led to minimized vantage points for viewing? I wonder if folks are looking at it with rose-colored glasses. The Walker Cup had no issues with movement and is the ideal event for Merion, here and forever on. It would be the same for Myopia, Charles River, Kebo Valley and other courses of dwarfed footprint. The Open business machine has simply passed them by.

Cliff,
I'll defer to you as you've been to more US Opens than I. (I've only been to Bethpage '02, 09, and Shinny in 04)
but I thought watching at Merion was a breeze.
I walked and was able to see not only every hole, but nearly every shot, and I had my 5"1' wife with me who saw  almost all the action.
I thought Bethpage was awful, and Shiiny tougher to see than Merion.
I was there sunday and it was dried out by then.
Logistically it was a breeze getting in and out, unlike the nightmare at bethpage

[Cliff Hamm]

Have been to SH in '86, WFW  twice plus PGA, and Baltusrol 3x plus PGA.  Logistically found Merion to be fine. Did find it frustrating that you could not get near the 16th hole, for example.  Also the odor after the rain was appaling  and thought the USGA could've been a much, much better job with the mud

I am older now and perhaps that's a piece of it. Just did not think that Merion was a great spectator course and unlike   like you found it difficult to spectate near the ropes.

[Gary Slatter]

What if the USGA bought and built themselves a super course to host their Opens every year?   Maybe have four nines and parking facilities.

[jeffwarne]

Have been to SH in '86, WFW  twice plus PGA, and Baltusrol 3x plus PGA.  Logistically found Merion to be fine. Did find it frustrating that you could not get near the 16th hole, for example.  Also the odor after the rain was appaling  and thought the USGA could've been a much, much better job with the mud

I am older now and perhaps that's a piece of it. Just did not think that Merion was a great spectator course and unlike   like you found it difficult to spectate near the ropes.

yes forgot about 16
doesn't hurt I'm 6'5"
maybe my wife saw less than I think

I also had a member hook me up(particularly my son) in the member's area in the middle of the day, so maybe I just got lucky early and late out on the course

[Tim_Cronin]

What if the USGA bought and built themselves a super course to host their Opens every year?   Maybe have four nines and parking facilities.

That was kicked around, at least informally, in the late 1960s or early 1970s. The idea was to build several courses around the country that would host the Open when they weren't open for all. It was decided not to get into the course business. The PGA Tour did it instead.

[Patrick_Mucci]

"L"  &. "L". Seem to dictate future Open sites.

Length  and Logistics

You need both.

Remote sites are a fantasy and a formula for financial failure.

Steve Kline,

What five West coast sites would you suggest ?

[Garland Bayley]

If the USGA restored the MacKenzie at Haggin Oaks in Sacto, (and if it could be restored), would it be a viable US Open site?

[David Bartman]

If the USGA restored the MacKenzie at Haggin Oaks in Sacto, (and if it could be restored), would it be a viable US Open site?

no

[Garland Bayley]

Why not? It's a 36 hole complex that is easily accessible in a population area.

[Chris Mavros]

I enjoy the USGA branching out to a few different courses like Erin Hills, Chambers Bay and going back to Merion.  Would like to see even more branching out.  Scioto, Camargo, Pasateimpo and, just throwing it out there, how about a Vegas course?  Shadow Creek or Cascata?