[Matthew Lloyd]

I’d be interested to hear some takes on a trend that I’d like to see reversed – that trend being a number of former U.S. Open venues being taken out of the rotation.  It was great to see Merion front and center this summer and got me thinking about the number of great courses that used to host the Open that now appear to be firmly part of the rotation for other events such as the PGA, US Amateur, US Senior Open, etc.  All great events obviously, but not the U.S. Open. 

In particular I’m referring to the courses listed below. If forced to pick one to bring back into the fold, I’d go with Oak Hill, with Inverness a close second.

A couple of disclaimers:

(1)   I’m 36 years old so my knowledge of the history of major championship venues is admittedly limited, so if this is all short-sighted and too small of a sample set please set me straight. There may be more long-term trends that I’m ignoring.

(2)   If I have omitted any former U.S. Open courses that should be included please suggest others.

1978 – Cherry Hills (hosted PGA, US Am, US Senior Open since)
1979 – Inverness (hosted PGA twice, US Senior Open since)
1988 – The Country Club (hosted US Amateur since)
1989 – Oak Hill (hosted PGA twice, Ryder Cup, US Amateur, Senior PGA since)
1990 – Medinah (hosted PGA twice, Ryder Cup since)
1991 – Hazeltine (hosted PGA twice, Ryder Cup, US Amateur since)
1993 – Baltusrol (hosted US Amateur and PGA since, with another PGA set)
1996 – Oakland Hills (hosted a US Amateur, Ryder Cup and PGA since)
2001 – Southern Hills (hosted a PGA and US Amateur since)

And since 2001 and looking ahead to 2020, the following venues will have hosted the U.S. Open twice: 

Pinehurst
Oakmont
Shinnecock Hills
Pebble Beach
Winged Foot

All great venues of course and deserving, but I’d like to see some of the “forgotten” courses brought back.  To compare these courses to Merion is not entirely accurate as they’ve all been quite busy hosting other elite events, but hopefully the general theme of this thread makes sense.

[JLahrman]

Given that Erin Hills and Chambers Bay will be hosting US Opens in the near future, is there really a "rotation" for US Open courses?

Just curious, have the courses that you've listed applied for US Opens but been denied?

[Matthew Lloyd]

Good question re these courses applying for the Open -- I don't know. 

That made me realize that my question is probably more theoretical than anything, as you're right -- it's not like the British Open with a firmly set rotation, but it does seem like other than the two public course outliers (Erin Hills and Chambers Bay) that the event is settling into more of a rotation recently. 

After seeing the short distances of Merion hold up, I'd be really curious to see some other courses that to be outdated be selected.

[Will Peterson]

1979 – Inverness (hosted PGA twice, US Senior Open since)
1989 – Oak Hill (hosted PGA twice, Ryder Cup, US Amateur, Senior PGA since)
1990 – Medinah (hosted PGA twice, Ryder Cup since)
1991 – Hazeltine (hosted PGA twice, Ryder Cup, US Amateur since)
1993 – Baltusrol (hosted US Amateur and PGA since, with another PGA set)
1996 – Oakland Hills (hosted a US Amateur, Ryder Cup and PGA since)
2001 – Southern Hills (hosted a PGA and US Amateur since)

Is part of the reason that those courses have teamed up with the PGA?  I wouldn't think that the USGA would want to have an Open sandwiched between a pair of PGAs, but wouldn't be as concerned about an Am or Senior Open.  Didn't Baltusrol host an Open in '67, '80, and '93?  The next date should have been '06, but they had just hosted the PGA in '05.  (I have no idea when dates were announced or if the relationship with the PGA started after being turned down by the USGA.)  It would seem that these courses are now PGA courses.

[Alex Miller]

Why do you want to see this trend reversed? While great courses I'd rather watch a tighter rota of the proven greats.

Shinnecock Hills
Winged Foot
Pebble Beach
Pinehurst #2
Oakmont

Same 5 as you listed. Maybe add 1 or 2 for geographic variety (Chambers, Southern Hills, Erin Hills, LACC, Merion, etc...). Wait a sec... I think I like what the USGA is doing now  

[Cliff Hamm]

Despite holding exciting championships with excellent leader boards Baltusrol was dropped from the rota.  They went to the PGA because the USGA did not offer the US Open.  This was largely the result of Bethpage Black becoming an Open course and to a lesser extent Shinnecock.  Only so many Opens can be held in the New York area.

The USGA was not happy with the low scores at Baltusrol.  That is too bad.  I do believe that Baltusrol will once again hold a well deserved US Open in the early '20's.

[Chris DeToro]

I'm really torn on this one.  I love what the USGA is doing by bringing in some of the new "classics" to the rota like an Erin Hills (assuming it ends up becoming a classic) because how else are we going to establish what makes these modern courses classic 100 years from now?  Those classics became such at least partly because of the lore of what happened there in tournament golf.  But I do love watching the pros play the venerable great old courses too.

I do love what they've been doing with the Senior and Women's Opens though.  I actually tuned into both this year because I was very curious to see how both courses looked under tournament conditions.  

[Jonathan Mallard]

I got into a discussion with someone about the theory that the USGA doesn't like to go back to courses that have hosted the PGA.

I pointed out that Pebble Beach, Oakmont, Southern Hills, and Winged Foot (that I can think of) have all hosted US Opens after the PGA has been held there.

Additional note: Both the PGA and the Ryder Cup are slated to appear at Bethpage.

[Dwight Phelps]

This thread got me thinking about courses that haven't hosted a major and which would be the best to add to some sort of major rotation.  That got me googling, which led me to this... interesting piece (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/35678-10-golf-courses-that-should-host-a-major-championship).  Needless to say, it's somewhat shocking to me to see what people outside of GCA have to say about some courses that are less-well-liked around here.


Among the gems I came across:

"I groaned when I heard that the USGA had scheduled another US Open at the mediocre snore-fest of Pinehurst No. 2"

"Since a major will never be played at Pine Valley(read below), this [Tobacco Road] is the next closest challenge" Don't think I've ever heard Tobacco Road and PV compared like this, but maybe I'm reading in the wrong places...

"While the USGA has a steamy love affair with Pebble Beach Golf Links, and golf enthusiasts wax poetic about the natural beauty of Cypress Point, the area's true gem might be that other unheralded course sitting in the mecca of Pebble Beach."  You guessed it - Spyglass Hill.  Over Pebble and CP.

"Yes, St. Andrews is the birthplace of the game and it’s how golf should truly be played and all that garbage. But it’s a downright boring course."

"Seriously, describe me any hole from the British Open rota besides the postage stamp at Royal Troon or the road hole at St. Andrews? Right, you can’t. There is nothing to separate the courses from one another."

And then he finishes by stating that ANGC should be #1 over PV because we see ANGC each year on TV.  I'll admit I've played none of these courses and can only go by what I've heard, read, or seen on TV, but I just had to post some of these quotes when I read them.


All that being said, does anyone think there's any sort of realistic possibility of a away-from-population center gem from getting a major in the near future?  I'd guess PGA over US Open.  I'm thinking of really 2 areas - Sand Hills of Nebraska/Colorado and Bandon.  I'd say, based on what I know, that chances are somewhere slightly above 'none' in the same way that the Jaguar's current playoff hopes are just slightly above 'none' (technically), but I can't help but imagine the world's best teeing it up at one of these courses instead of retread layouts.

[Chris DeToro]

I threw up in my mouth a little when I read some of those quotes...

[Matthew Lloyd]

i would LOVE to see a major played away from a population center but agree the chances are next to zero.  Bandon or Sand Hills hosting a major would be incredible. Ballyneal another one. We can dare to dream...

[JLahrman]

For each of those quotes, I'm guessing you could find several posters on this website who would agree with the statement. Maybe not the Pine Valley - Tobacco Road comparison, and maybe not rationalizing ANGC as #1 because it's televised every year, but almost certainly the others.

[Jason Topp]

Matthew:

I cannot identify one of the upcoming sites I would swap out for any on your list:

2014    114th    Pinehurst Resort, Course #2
2015    115th    Chambers Bay    
2016    116th    Oakmont Country Club
2017    117th    Erin Hills
2018    118th    Shinnecock Hills Golf Club    
2019    119th    Pebble Beach Golf Links    
2020    120th    Winged Foot Golf Club

I know in Hazeltine's case the opportunity to host two PGAs and a Ryder Cup made it easy to forgo a shot at a US Open.

[Tim_Cronin]

A lot of it for some courses is the site fee. At one time the USGA offered more than the PGA. The PGA at times offered a flat fee plus percentage of revenue (except TV revenue) that was more than the USGA would offer. Club boards have to consider the bottom line vs. the disruption of the course for the better part of a summer, and nothing short of renovation disrupts a course like a non-Masters major.

[Steve Kline]

I'd prefer they go with a set rotation so they stop screwing with the great old courses.

I'd prefer they find some unique, interesting west coast venues. I really like watching the U.S. Open in prime time.

[Chris DeToro]

I wonder how the USGA and PGA made the decisions on host courses back in the day before the corporate boom in golf.  Does anyone have any insight or good articles on that?  I know a lot of talk was made this year about how much the USGA "lost" by going to Merion in this day and age and I just wonder how this was handled in the past

[Jay Flemma]

Oakland Hills will be coming back and hosting a U.S. Open very soon.

Southern Hills and Oak Hill are just "too easy" and too short to host an Open without being tricked up beyond all recognition.

[JR Potts]

A lot of it for some courses is the site fee. At one time the USGA offered more than the PGA. The PGA at times offered a flat fee plus percentage of revenue (except TV revenue) that was more than the USGA would offer. Club boards have to consider the bottom line vs. the disruption of the course for the better part of a summer, and nothing short of renovation disrupts a course like a non-Masters major.

Exactly.  I suspect you will start seeing these events at public facilities every 4 out of 5 years very shortly....with a spattering of tried and true traditional major hosts hosting every 20 or so years.  Unless the financial model changes (which I suspect it won't), it's just not worth it anymore.

[Garland Bayley]

I have no problem with relegating those private clubs to "lesser" events. I prefer the new philosophy of the USGA to put the open on courses open to the public. This puts it more in alignment with The Open Championship that is contested on courses that are open to the public.

[Chris DeToro]

I have no problem with relegating those private clubs to "lesser" events. I prefer the new philosophy of the USGA to put the open on courses open to the public. This puts it more in alignment with The Open Championship that is contested on courses that are open to the public.

I feel like the USGA is wavering on this a little--when they brought the Open to Torrey and Bethpage, I would be completely in alignment, but I hardly consider Pebble Beach and Pinehurst "public" with fees in the $300+ range.  Chambers Bay and Erin Hills are a bit more reasonable, but only time will tell if they get multiple Opens or just one shot

[Cliff Hamm]

I have no problem with relegating those private clubs to "lesser" events. I prefer the new philosophy of the USGA to put the open on courses open to the public. This puts it more in alignment with The Open Championship that is contested on courses that are open to the public.

Sorry, but comparing apples and oranges.  Most and the best courses in GB allow some form of public access.  Not true here.  The publics are public and the privates are private. When Winged Foot, Merion, Oakmont, Shinnecock, etc. allow public play let me know.  If you were to exclude the privates you'd miss many of our best courses.  Just not true in GB.

[Garland Bayley]

Or Cliff,

many of the privates are considered best, because they are private, not because they are best.

[Cliff Hamm]

You don't really believe that do you?

[Garland Bayley]

Cliff,

You don't really believe that golf course raters are totally objective and exclude a certain exclusivity from their ratings do you?

[Cliff Hamm]

I believe that the best courses are private...Wish it weren't that way, but it is...

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