[David Royer]

This past Tuesday Lou Duran, Tyler Kearns and I played Pinehurst 2. A caddy is required unless you want to do cart path only.  On my way back to OH-IO I started thinking about how a good caddy helps you read greens.  It seemed upon reflection that part of experience was diminished in appreciating the greens.  I tended to look at the greens but relied on his reads.  His reads were spot on.  In retrospect I think I would have missed (even) more putts but would have enjoyed the misses that much more.   Thoughts?

[Richard Choi]

I almost never ask for a read. I enjoy getting fooled on the read and try to figure out how the architect did it. I want to be an active participant on strategies, not just sit back and execute on order.

[Greg Taylor]

Well it's non-linear for me.

They can ruin a good course and a day's golf, but they rarely enhance it, and I don't enjoy it that much more.

To be honest I find the "legendary caddy stories" to be tiresome. Carry the bag and shut up!

[BHoover]

Usually when I've taken a caddy, the caddy has been a high school kid who may or may not know much about golf and the course I'm playing. So I usually never even think about asking for shot advice or green reads. The only times I've relied on a caddy to read greens were at The Golf Club and Muirfield Village. But I have a hard enough time reading greens on my own (asDave Royer knows from our home club putting green), and it's damn near impossible for me to actually translate a caddy's read to an effective putting stroke. So in my case, the caddy does not detract from the greatness of the course.

[David_Tepper]

"I almost never ask for a read. I enjoy getting fooled on the read and try to figure out how the architect did it. I want to be an active participant on strategies, not just sit back and execute on order."

Richard C. -

On the very rare occasions I play with a caddy, I always try to make my own read for a putt and then run it by my caddy to see what he thinks. If the caddy's read is different from mine, I defer to his.

That way you are engaged as an "active participant," but you are also likely to sink a few more putts!

DT
 

[Matthew Lloyd]

If you're planning to play a course more than once, then I think going without a caddy is essential.  I'm convinced the only way you can truly learn a course is by making your own decisions and taking your lumps through trial and error, and that experience eventually enables you to get a great "feel" for the course.

I equate these struggles with being in a bad relationship with a woman.  All of your friends and family can tell you she's terrible, but until you learn this first-hand through your own decisions, you don't believe it.  I believe this applies to poorly read putts as well...

[Brent Hutto]

There are various, superficially similar activities that take place on a golf course. Similarities aside there are meaningful differences between the experience of taking part.

One activity that I'm totally addicted to is the one I call "Playing Golf". Read my own putts, decide on my own clubs, carry my own bag, walk on my own two feet, your basic game of golf. I could do that 200 times a year and not get tired of it. In actuality I do it a little over 100 times a year and enjoy almost every round.

Another activity is waltzing around a golf course in the company of a caddie. He carries my bag, rakes my bunkers, offers advice on putting and club selection and basically leads me around like a tourist on a packaged excursion. I've had varying degrees of enjoyment from these activities but never as much fun as the one I call "playing golf". It's quite a different experience and once a year or so is plenty for me, just as a change of pace.

Still another is the one I call "Resort Golf". That's the one where I sit in a golf cart at some place where the climate and/or scenery is spectacular. Takes about five hours, costs a lot and what with being in the cart it's not the real thing at all as far as I'm concerned. But it is still an enjoyable enough pastime if the surroundings are salubrious. Like the "Caddy Golf" ex experience this is one best enjoyed in very small, infrequent doses. But once a year or so, what the hell.

Various other activities interest me not at all. The hit-n-giggle social things like Scrambles and the like bore me to tears and the only acceptable dose is zero. But that's just me.

[Will Lozier]

Carry the bag and shut up!

Wow Greg.  You seem to have no appreciation for one of the great traditions of the game.  You must have been really wronged by a looper to be so scarred.  Disappointing.

[Richard Choi]

"I almost never ask for a read. I enjoy getting fooled on the read and try to figure out how the architect did it. I want to be an active participant on strategies, not just sit back and execute on order."

Richard C. -

On the very rare occasions I play with a caddy, I always try to make my own read for a putt and then run it by my caddy to see what he thinks. If the caddy's read is different from mine, I defer to his.

That way you are engaged as an "active participant," but you are also likely to sink a few more putts!

DT
 

But, watching the putt do something completely different than what I expected is half the fun!

[Sean Walsh]

So far the reasons for not liking a caddy have no relation to not liking to take a good caddy. Perhaps other than Brent, I can understand the wish to strip the game back to you and the course

A good caddy can do all the reads, know the strategy, maybe even have the legendary stories BUT can also read (or ask) his golfer what is required of him/her.  Not liking a "good" caddy probably says more about you than them.

Of course no-one is perfect and any human is likely to do something you don't particularly care for.  If it reaches the level that it bugs you, ask them politely to stop doing it.  If they don't they are definitely not a good caddy. Also if someone is crass enough to want me to shut up they're probably not someone I want to be talking to anyway win/win

FWIW I only caddied for the one season but at some stage on the first hole ground rules were set or requested for what the golfer wanted from me.  The only thing I refused to do during a season was use a golfer's range finder.  I gave my yardages and if he chose to use his range finder to check them that was up to him.  He stopped doing it after a few holes.  

[Dwight Phelps]

But, watching the putt do something completely different than what I expected is half the fun!

You and I have VERY different ideas of what constitutes 'fun'. 

[David_Tepper]

"But, watching the putt do something completely different than what I expected is half the fun!"

Yes, I have always thought that making putts was fun. My mistake!

[Brent Hutto]

Sean,

In my few experiences with caddies (maybe 15-20 rounds over the years) I've found that if I'm going to do it at all, I want the full "guided tour" experience. If I try to play my own game and just let the caddie show up, shut up, keep up, etc. it's still nothing at all like playing on my own. So once in a while I do the full deal, the vast majority of the time I just schlep my own bag. Seems kind of bloodyminded to arrange for the service to be available and then ask to NOT receive most of it.

And it is fun in a special, out of the ordinary treat sort of way.

To answer the original question, if I'm going to just see a golf course one time then having a caddie point out various features and so forth is as likely to add as to detract from the experience. For me, the only really satisfying experience is to play the course several times and I would prefer to be doing my own thing in that case. Although the first time around with a caddie would be an OK start.

[Brian Finn]

I always try to make my own read for a putt and then run it by my caddy to see what he thinks. If the caddy's read is different from mine, I defer to his.

This is essentially my approach as well.  I will always take a look of my own, and defer to the caddy more often than not.  I have never felt having a caddy read greens took away from my round.  Some of my most enjoyable rounds ever (#2, Sleepy Hollow, The Creek, and Kiawah Ocean to name some particularly fond memories) came with knowledgable caddies reading greens.  I still checked out and appreciated each green, perhaps even more so, as I was not raking traps or carrying my bag.

Of course, I have had some really awful caddies as well, but in this case I usually figure it out early on and just politely request no input on club selection, green reading, etc.

[Sean_A]

Greg

I too would rather have a bag carrier and not a caddie.  I can't see much point in being guided through a course.  If I think it is that funky I will try to play it twice. 

Ciao 

[John DAngelo]

Any caddy can ruin a round or enhance a round, but I don't believe they're able to diminish a great golf course unless you let them.

I have had fantastic experiences with unknown caddies at both known and unknown courses.  I think the key is in knowing and discussing your preferences at the beginning of the round.  I don't always remember to do this, but am always happy when I do.  For instance, from a caddy who doesn't know my game, I NEVER want to hear which specific club to use.  I generally like to ask about distance and how long the shot will play, but i almost always want to ask.

This is especially true of putting.  I've had the great experience of forming a relationship with a couple of caddies at clubs to which i've belonged, who come to know my game and that I tend to die the ball into the hole or ram it into the back on this or that kind of putt.  In these rare cases, having a second opinion on a read is really valuable.  But likewise, when I've forgotten to tell the unfamiliar caddy that I like to read my own putts, it's really annoying to have them (with the best of intentions) try to help read a putt for me that I've already decided on and am ready to putt.

Also know that I am generally happy to carry my own luggage, so to speak, on the course.  But am also happy to support a caddy program where and when appropriate.  If the choice is take a buggy or take a caddy, and those are the only two choices, it's a no-brainer to take a caddy.

In any case, the thread topic is a good question.  I think the answer is, only if you let them.

[Richard Choi]

"But, watching the putt do something completely different than what I expected is half the fun!"

Yes, I have always thought that making putts was fun. My mistake!

Sure, correctly guessing the line and executing is fun as well, but for me, it is not nearly as fun as when it does something unexpected.

Reading a putt is like solving a 3D puzzle, I enjoy the challenge. When a putt does something unexpected, that means there was some sort of optical illusion that caused me to do so. Figuring out what that illusion is and recognizing it again on a different hole is one of the great things you learn as you study golf course architecture. I care more about architecture than my score. It is far more interesting.

[David_Tepper]

"Sure, correctly guessing the line and executing is fun as well, but for me, it is not nearly as fun as when it does something unexpected.

Reading a putt is like solving a 3D puzzle, I enjoy the challenge. When a putt does something unexpected, that means there was some sort of optical illusion that caused me to do so. Figuring out what that illusion is and recognizing it again on a different hole is one of the great things you learn as you study golf course architecture. I care more about architecture than my score. It is far more interesting."

But Richard, can't you find out just as easily that your read was wrong by sinking the putt off your caddy's read as by missing the putt on your own read? Isn't that a more pleasant way to discover the architecture?

[Richard Choi]

"Sure, correctly guessing the line and executing is fun as well, but for me, it is not nearly as fun as when it does something unexpected.

Reading a putt is like solving a 3D puzzle, I enjoy the challenge. When a putt does something unexpected, that means there was some sort of optical illusion that caused me to do so. Figuring out what that illusion is and recognizing it again on a different hole is one of the great things you learn as you study golf course architecture. I care more about architecture than my score. It is far more interesting."

But Richard, can't you find out just as easily that your read was wrong by sinking the putt off your caddy's read as by missing the putt on your own read? Isn't that a more pleasant way to discover the architecture?

No, the surprise is the best part. And you wouldn't know exactly how wrong you were.

[Colin Macqueen]

Gentlemen,
I think a good (any) caddy does diminish a great (any) golf course.

I think this because the game of golf is your game and yours alone. The excitement and fun, the anticipation and outcome, the disquiet and disappointment, the victories and defeats are all for you and you alone to savour!
At every turn, whether the drive has finished in a less than ideal position on the fairway or run int o a wee pot bunker nestled out of sight,  the approach has caught the unappreciated false front or the putt has slid to the left due to subtle undulation in the green, the exultation or dismay has to be your experience. You craft the shot to the best of your ability, you are the master of your own destiny, you are responsible for your golf.

No need to insert a caddy, a somewhat "capricious calling" at the best of times. Why have them steal your thunder, render you almost redundant and deny you the exquisite sweet smell of success or the rank, bitter taste of defeat.

Why have the intrigue and fascination of the golf course removed from your experience. The golf course must unveil itself to you …..  not be unmasked by a caddy. Your own judgement is crucial and must stand on its own merits. One must not kowtow to another when playing your golf. As H.G. Hutchinson so aptly wrote - "Such subservience as this is lamentable".

Thank you for listening!!

Cheers Colin

[jeffwarne]

just flip the Caddiemaster a $20 and tell him you need a shite caddie

a bit too much beard pulling in this thread

[Tommy Williamsen]

i have never understood the hostility towards caddies on this site.  A caddie can enhance a round.  Go ahead and be a bore and tell him to just shut up and carry the bag.  I do not take a caddie regularly but will when I bring a friend to my club.  They all have appreciated the local knowledge the caddie provides.  I would rather be surprised by how a putt breaks after I follow my caddie's advice and make it than not ask and miss it. Lighten up guys.

[Carson Pilcher]

I usually take a caddie at two locations that I play on a regular basis.  At one location, I call ahead and ask for the same caddie everytime.  He has become a friend and I enjoy hanging out with him.  Besides that, he can read the greens better than anyone at the club.

At the other club, I might not know the caddies as well, but most of the time, I enjoy getting to know the guy and chatting him throughout the round; regardless of his green reading ability.

[Jason Thurman]

i have never understood the hostility towards caddies on this site.  A caddie can enhance a round.  Go ahead and be a bore and tell him to just shut up and carry the bag.  I do not take a caddie regularly but will when I bring a friend to my club.  They all have appreciated the local knowledge the caddie provides.  I would rather be surprised by how a putt breaks after I follow my caddie's advice and make it than not ask and miss it. Lighten up guys.

Seriously. Why would anyone complain about caddies? I mean, besides the fact that they can be a $100 detriment to a round of golf.

Honestly though, if a caddie is a detriment, it's usually at least equally the fault of the player. A quick conversation on the first tee can help them understand how to help you get the most out of the round.

And I've never had a round diminished by an Evans Scholar kid. I love real, traditional caddie programs staffed with kids who are trying to make a buck or two during the summer. Those are great.

[Sean_A]

i have never understood the hostility towards caddies on this site.  

Zero hostility here.  Not wanting a caddie is not a sign of hostility.  Lighten up .

Ciao

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