Wilshire: Is Norman Macbeth our least appreciated guy?

[Marty Bonnar]

I am utterly loving the ladies coverage this weekend. What a fun, interesting, strategic positioning golf course this looks. I know Tommy is our guy for here. Give us some LA loving, Mr T, baby!
F.

[David_Tepper]

FBD -

I agree. It is certainly nice to see a U.S. tour course that is not wall-to-wall green.

DT

[Kalen Braley]

Reading a handful of old GCA threads from a 10+ years ago.  Seems there is some controversy surrounding the work at Wilshire...most notably this one.  https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,37013.0.html

P.S.  Trying to find ground level pictures of #3, looks like an interesting out-of-the box hole, does anyone have one to post up?

[Jon Cavalier]

P.S.  Trying to find ground level pictures of #3, looks like an interesting out-of-the box hole, does anyone have one to post up?

[Kalen Braley]

Thanks for posting those Jon,

Looks to be a fascinating short par 4.

[Dan Grossman]

I’m a fan of short par 4s, although this isn’t my favorite. I think the shelf on the left of the fairway is a bit too narrow to reward the play that brings those bunkers in play. The slope in the fairway moves everything down to the right and then it just becomes a contest to see who can hit it around the tree.


It’s not a bad hole, but I wish there was more room to the left to make laying back a more viable play.

[Tal Oz]

Paging Alex for his take on this hole!

I will say as a lefty who plays a draw, this hole really suits me. 3 has to be my most birdied hole out there. However, it can play somewhat one dimensionally with the cant of the fairway having most tee shots end up on the right half of the fairway stymied by the tree necessitating a 15y cut with a wedge for a righty. Hugging your teeshot as close to the fairway bunkers left gives you an unobstructed view of the green.

Wilshire is showing up wonderfully this week. The greens are BOLD in shape and have plenty of subtle breaks. 6400y is a perfect yardage for these ladies. As an aside, I dislike the tournament routing ending on the par 3 10th.

[mike_beene]

Short grass all the way to the hazards, the general sandy waste look and the compact routing all seem very appealing. Never played it but now I want to.

[Jeff Schley]

Haven't played it after the restoration, but has been widely acclaimed. Tough town to stand out as the private bench is VERY deep in LA. As an aside curious where others would rank Wilshire in the pecking order post restoration?  Prior to I would have had it respectable, but lower than most.
1. Riviera2. LACC3. Bel Air4. Sherwood5. Lakeside6. Wilshire7. El Cabellero8. Hillcrest9. Rolling Hills10. Hacienda

[Alex Miller]

I'm loving the coverage too! Goes to show how much different the balance of width off the tee is different for pros vs amateurs. There's definitely plenty of room to get it around out there, but these ladies make it seem SO easy. The greens on the other hand... I don't think anyone who's played there multiple times is surprised at some of the "struggles". There's lots of subtlety combined with slopes, runoffs, and a generally tilt off of the Hollywood Hills that provides a cherry on top in making it difficult to hole putts out there.


Also, before talking about the architecture a HUGE kudos to Brian Sullivan and the team for not only the presentation but truly dialing in the conditions out there for a great set up this week. Day-in day-out there have been steady improvements over the last 2 years - the changes to the course in the last decade (bunkers, rough transition to waste areas, and tree removal) have been able to meld well and provide a really fun and strategic challenge. Plus views of downtown, the hollywood sign and hills, and griffith observatory have really opened up!





Funny that the 3rd hole has come up... it's probably the most "controversial" of holes in its current iteration. Personally I would have taken a chainsaw to the tree at the corner a long time ago if I had the stones to do it... but there are definitely alternatives to improve the design too. Expanding the left side of the fairway and removing the first (and maybe left second) bunker would make playing to the left shelf a more viable option too, rather than reshaping the fairway completely. If it were up to me, removing the large tree and adding a couple of tasteful freeform mounds short right would do the trick. There's still a second smaller tree that can come into play for mis-hit shots, and I think mounds would still provide incentive to strike the approach well and retain some of the value that the tree at the corner requires. My $.02.


The LA private bench is deep! I'm sure that rankings would vary greatly depending on personal taste but IMO there are some pretty clear tiers that form so my ranking would be as follows:


Tier 1
LACC North, RIV (9-10)


Tier 2
Bel Air, Wilshire, Lakeside (7-8)


Tier 3
Hillcrest, LACC South, Sherwood, El Cab (6-7)


Tier 4
Annandale, Hacienda, El Cab, Palos Verdes, Rolling Hills, Oakmont (5-6) potentially missing some others... Woodland Hills?

[Jeff Schley]

Alex good tiers.  A couple others would be San Gabriel (underrated IMO), Virginia and Shady Canyon.

[Marty Bonnar]

Is a Director of Agronomy a Head Greenkeeper?
F.

[David Ober]

I am utterly loving the ladies coverage this weekend. What a fun, interesting, strategic positioning golf course this looks. I know Tommy is our guy for here. Give us some LA loving, Mr T, baby!
F.

Wilshire is an absolute blast to play. I play the Macbeth Invitational every year, and in tournament shape, it's just so much fun. Can really jump up and bite you if you're not paying attention. And the little creek that runs through? It's wonderfully in play on many holes.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Is a Director of Agronomy a Head Greenkeeper?
F.

Job titles have gone crazy the last 5+ years, in all areas of business.  "Chief _____ Officer" for the most unremarkable of positions.

[Michael Whitaker]

Really impressed with the look of Wilshire. Suttle undulations on the greens don’t usually show up on TV, but several times during today’s broadcast (Saturday) it was easy to see the multiple “waves” in the overhead shots. Really impressed. It’s the kind of course that suits the LPGA. Great choice for them!

[Tim Leahy]

I'm loving the coverage too! Goes to show how much different the balance of width off the tee is different for pros vs amateurs. There's definitely plenty of room to get it around out there, but these ladies make it seem SO easy. The greens on the other hand... I don't think anyone who's played there multiple times is surprised at some of the "struggles". There's lots of subtlety combined with slopes, runoffs, and a generally tilt off of the Hollywood Hills that provides a cherry on top in making it difficult to hole putts out there.


Also, before talking about the architecture a HUGE kudos to Brian Sullivan and the team for not only the presentation but truly dialing in the conditions out there for a great set up this week. Day-in day-out there have been steady improvements over the last 2 years - the changes to the course in the last decade (bunkers, rough transition to waste areas, and tree removal) have been able to meld well and provide a really fun and strategic challenge. Plus views of downtown, the hollywood sign and hills, and griffith observatory have really opened up!





Funny that the 3rd hole has come up... it's probably the most "controversial" of holes in its current iteration. Personally I would have taken a chainsaw to the tree at the corner a long time ago if I had the stones to do it... but there are definitely alternatives to improve the design too. Expanding the left side of the fairway and removing the first (and maybe left second) bunker would make playing to the left shelf a more viable option too, rather than reshaping the fairway completely. If it were up to me, removing the large tree and adding a couple of tasteful freeform mounds short right would do the trick. There's still a second smaller tree that can come into play for mis-hit shots, and I think mounds would still provide incentive to strike the approach well and retain some of the value that the tree at the corner requires. My $.02.


The LA private bench is deep! I'm sure that rankings would vary greatly depending on personal taste but IMO there are some pretty clear tiers that form so my ranking would be as follows:


Tier 1
LACC North, RIV (9-10)


Tier 2
Bel Air, Wilshire, Lakeside (7-8)


Tier 3
Hillcrest, LACC South, Sherwood, El Cab (6-7)


Tier 4
Annandale, Hacienda, El Cab, Palos Verdes, Rolling Hills, Oakmont (5-6) potentially missing some others... Woodland Hills?

Brentwood?

[David Ober]

I'm loving the coverage too! Goes to show how much different the balance of width off the tee is different for pros vs amateurs. There's definitely plenty of room to get it around out there, but these ladies make it seem SO easy. The greens on the other hand... I don't think anyone who's played there multiple times is surprised at some of the "struggles". There's lots of subtlety combined with slopes, runoffs, and a generally tilt off of the Hollywood Hills that provides a cherry on top in making it difficult to hole putts out there.


Also, before talking about the architecture a HUGE kudos to Brian Sullivan and the team for not only the presentation but truly dialing in the conditions out there for a great set up this week. Day-in day-out there have been steady improvements over the last 2 years - the changes to the course in the last decade (bunkers, rough transition to waste areas, and tree removal) have been able to meld well and provide a really fun and strategic challenge. Plus views of downtown, the hollywood sign and hills, and griffith observatory have really opened up!





Funny that the 3rd hole has come up... it's probably the most "controversial" of holes in its current iteration. Personally I would have taken a chainsaw to the tree at the corner a long time ago if I had the stones to do it... but there are definitely alternatives to improve the design too. Expanding the left side of the fairway and removing the first (and maybe left second) bunker would make playing to the left shelf a more viable option too, rather than reshaping the fairway completely. If it were up to me, removing the large tree and adding a couple of tasteful freeform mounds short right would do the trick. There's still a second smaller tree that can come into play for mis-hit shots, and I think mounds would still provide incentive to strike the approach well and retain some of the value that the tree at the corner requires. My $.02.


The LA private bench is deep! I'm sure that rankings would vary greatly depending on personal taste but IMO there are some pretty clear tiers that form so my ranking would be as follows:


Tier 1
LACC North, RIV (9-10)


Tier 2
Bel Air, Wilshire, Lakeside (7-8)


Tier 3
Hillcrest, LACC South, Sherwood, El Cab (6-7)


Tier 4
Annandale, Hacienda, El Cab, Palos Verdes, Rolling Hills, Oakmont (5-6) potentially missing some others... Woodland Hills?

Brentwood?

I love Brentwood since their re-do. Lots of fun to play also.

[David Ober]

I’m a fan of short par 4s, although this isn’t my favorite. I think the shelf on the left of the fairway is a bit too narrow to reward the play that brings those bunkers in play. The slope in the fairway moves everything down to the right and then it just becomes a contest to see who can hit it around the tree.


It’s not a bad hole, but I wish there was more room to the left to make laying back a more viable play.

Completely agree with you here. In all honesty, there should be no left bunkers there (or maybe just one?). Shoul be just the trees and waste area to the left, jaybe. Let people play from up there. As it is now, the ball, during The Macbeth, will simply not stay up there unless you thread the proverbial needle into a ridiculously narrow section.

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