[Joe Leenheer]

...not hit driver on short par 4's.....?

I love a shortish risk/reward par 4 (not drivable...although I like those too).  My club has a great one with a drop shot vibe off the tee followed by a second shot that is played uphill (almost full club) .  From the back tees I can hit a hybrid inside of 150 or hit driver and be  well inside of 100.  When I first played the hole I would hit driver most of the time.  Now I don't dare hit more then the hybrid to avoid trouble right and a fairway bunker left.  Also I prefer to have a full club into the elevated green instead of a "feel wedge".

However, if I were just visiting and not as familiar with the hole, I'm pulling driver without hesitation.

So allow me to finish the question.."How often to you not hit driver on short par 4's when you play a course for the first (or second) time?

[Ally Mcintosh]

On links courses, I almost never hit driver on downwind holes.... Usually my little steel shafted 4-wood.

I find it goes as far as with any decent amount of wind, the driver is knocked down quicker and with firm conditions, the 4-wood will get as much run

[Thomas Dai]

Equipment has altered club selection pretty dramatically. In yee olde days, a wooden or smaller headed metal driver wasn't the easier club in the bag to hit. The modern 460* jumbo driver may arguably be the easiest club in the bag to hit. Also, the modern golf ball seems to like to go straight whereas the previous generation of ball had a distinct tendency to move off-line rather easily and also balloon into the air. The 1-iron often used to be the choice of positional club off the tee for many lower hcp's, particularly if there was a head or sidewind. I go along with what Ally says about fairways woods off the tee downwind on links courses though, especially in firmer conditions. But if like me, as you get older and the ball doesn't go so far for you, with the modern driver it's driver more often than not. I also increasingly find the tee-it-low and grip-down-the-shaft shot with the driver is also very useful, espcially if there's a 'hook' wind blowing.
All the best

[Steve Kline]

I don't hit driver very often at all on short par 4s. With an average drive of 270 yards, I'm just not long enough to reach them, especially since I usually play the back tees which means drivable pars are at least 300 yards. I'll hit 3-wood or hybrid and try to get my sand wedge or pitching wedge close.

[Adam Clayman]

There's a great short hole on the front at Minikhada. The ridge that crosses the fairway causes most all the necessary thought off the tee. Hitting driver would be risky, because it leaves the hardest shot in golf; An uphill approach from a downhill lie. The only time I played it, I noticed that and chose the club that gets me to either just short of the apex or on the apex. going long, over the ridge was ill conceived.    

The pros always play the tenth at Shinney with driver, rather then laying back and hitting that full shot in. Everyone of them likely thinks the hole is a poor one, but it was their non-thinkinh way lay attitude thats poor.

[Dan Byrnes]

Not too often.  I don't hit my 3 wood all that more consistently than my driver if at all.  There is one hole on my home course where I hit a three wood as it keep me from the trouble I can reach with my driver.

Dan

[Matthew Petersen]

I virtually always hit driver, simply because:

(a) I hit driver from the tee as well as I do anything else. Nothing worse than being "responsible" by pulling out a 4-iron and then hitting that in trouble anyway.
(B) I'm a comparatively lousy short iron/wedge player but pretty decent around the greens so the greenside trouble would have to be pretty severe for me to think I'd actually be better off hitting wedge. If I lay up, I'm liable to hit the wedge second into whatever trouble I wanted to avoid with my drive!

Plus, I don't play a ton of golf. I don't play too many places over and over. Generally I'd rather be bold and go for it because the memory of a great shot pulled off will live a lot longer than the sting of not pulling it off. I suppose if it was late in a close match or I had a very good score going that might change my calculation as well.

[PCCraig]

There's a great short hole on the front at Minikhada. The ridge that crosses the fairway causes most all the necessary thought off the tee. Hitting driver would be risky, because it leaves the hardest shot in golf; An uphill approach from a downhill lie. The only time I played it, I noticed that and chose the club that gets me to either just short of the apex or on the apex. going long, over the ridge was ill conceived.

I'm guessing you're talking about the 5th hole. I agree, it's a fun short par-4, mostly because the green and landing area is blind from the tee. I usually hit a driver off the tee, however, as it usually leaves either a short pitch (if the ball goes a little right) or a short bunker shot (if the ball goes a little left/long off the tee).

On a short par-4 with no water or OB I don't see much reason not to hit driver...I'd almost always rather hit a short pitch or bunker shot than a roughly 100 yard full swing shot to a (typically) smaller green.

[Brian Finn]

How often to you not hit driver on short par 4's when you play a course for the first (or second) time?

Very infrequently.  Unless there is a very clear benefit to laying up, I will usually blast away.  Particularly during my first time around a new course, I like to attempt to pull off difficult (even improbable) shots.  While I take great satisfaction in shooting a low score, my game is erratic, so I am just as likely to hit a long iron into trouble (or so I tell myself).  Nobody would ever accuse me of having excellent course management skills, and even at courses where I play regularly, I seldom lay up or play the 'smart' shot on short/medium par 4s.

[Bill Seitz]

I used to hit three wood on anything less than 400 yards.  These days I actually hit my driver just about as straight as my three wood, so if I'm hitting the shorter club, it's because I'm trying to take trouble out of play, like on the 6th and 7th holes at Kingsley.  But unless there's a reason to shy away from driver that isn't related to fairway width, I'll hit driver.  On 13 I almost always hit driver, even though I probably shouldn't.

A few years ago I played in a Chicago District Amateur qualifier at Ridge Country Club.  It's a very old, fairly short and very narrow course.  I decided after the practice round that I'd play it safe and hit 3-wood on 8 holes, driver on 4 (because they were a little longer and it was worth the risk) and iron/hybrid on 2.  I was 4/4 on fairways with driver, 2/2 with iron/hybrid, and 0/8 with 3-wood.  From that point on, I decided I was going to hit driver in those situations more often than not.  I was paired that day with Scott Ten Broeck, of the relatively famous (in Chicago golf circles) Ten Broeck family.  Despite being members at Beverly, he said he'd never played the nearby Ridge CC.  He hit driver on every hole, and it paid off as he qualified, and I missed by about a shot.  Thems the breaks.

[Josh Tarble]

An older gentleman at my club put it to me like this:

"Why would I ever not hit driver...I'm just as likely to put the hybrid in the trees.  And then I'm still in the trees and farther away from the hole"

There are a few times that I won't hit driver, but it's pretty rare and usually has to do with running out of fairway or a worse angle because a driver miss can put me too far.

[George Pazin]

An older gentleman at my club put it to me like this:

"Why would I ever not hit driver...I'm just as likely to put the hybrid in the trees.  And then I'm still in the trees and farther away from the hole"

There are a few times that I won't hit driver, but it's pretty rare and usually has to do with running out of fairway or a worse angle because a driver miss can put me too far.

I'm almost the exact opposite in my approach. I need a compelling reason to hit driver. For instance, I doubt I'll ever hit one on a Pete Dye course, because there's always way too much trouble around the greens. I can hit my driver plenty far enough, but it's just so rare that I hit one where I want to that there has to be almost no penalty for missing it before I consider hitting it.

Maybe people should define what they mean by short. I'm always more inclined to hit 2 7-irons than a driver and some kind of wedge, any kind of wedge, but that's probably because I feel a lot more comfortable with irons than my driver. If I'm out goofing around, I'll probably pull driver just for the heck of it, but I play so little that I'm rarely just goofing around, I feel the need to maximize my happy outcomes.

[Garland Bayley]

I always lay back so I can hit my 21 wood in.

[Jeff Shelman]

If a hole is less than roughly 330 yards, I basically will never hit driver.

I would much rather have a full club into a green than a half wedge. I'll try to hit something that leaves me with 100-125 into the green.

[BHoover]

An older gentleman at my club put it to me like this:

"Why would I ever not hit driver...I'm just as likely to put the hybrid in the trees.  And then I'm still in the trees and farther away from the hole"

There are a few times that I won't hit driver, but it's pretty rare and usually has to do with running out of fairway or a worse angle because a driver miss can put me too far.

I completely agree with Josh. Why would I ever not hit driver? It's probably the club that I feel most confident hitting off the tee. I'm not a great long iron and wedge player and my 3-wood isn't as accurate as my driver. Unless there's something stupid like a pond in front of the green, I'm reaching for the driver.

Maybe, maybe if I'm playing a tournament, then I'm hitting less than driver. But if I'm playing a casual round or match play, the driver is my club of choice.

[Carl Johnson]

Stupid answer, but true.  I don't carrry a driver.  The only "wood" I carry is a three wood, and that's what I play off the tee 98% of the time (ignoring par threes).  Yesterday I played a short par four (285) and hit a four hybrid (22 degrees) off  the tee to stay short of a creek in front of the green.  I have confidence in the club and hit a perfect lay up to 110 or so.  My playing companion hit driver and cleared the water by a few feet, rolled onto the green and then missed his eagle put, but said he'd hit his Sunday shot (max shot) and would not try it again.  (This was a new course for both of us.)  For what it may be worth.

[JC Jones]

How often to you not hit driver on short par 4's when you play a course for the first (or second) time?

Very infrequently.  Unless there is a very clear benefit to laying up, I will usually blast away.  Particularly during my first time around a new course, I like to attempt to pull off difficult (even improbable) shots.  While I take great satisfaction in shooting a low score, my game is erratic, so I am just as likely to hit a long iron into trouble (or so I tell myself).  Nobody would ever accuse me of having excellent course management skills, and even at courses where I play regularly, I seldom lay up or play the 'smart' shot on short/medium par 4s.

Yes.  I'm so erratic these days that I live for the "glory" shots that I may or may not pull off.  The one or two a round that do work are what keeps me coming back.

[Eric Smith]

Yes.  I'm so erratic these days that I live for the "glory" shots that I may or may not pull off.  The one or two a round that do work are what keeps me coming back.

These days..

[John McCarthy]

OB or water?  Play it safe.  Just sand?  Gimmie the lsrge one.

[Joe Leenheer]

It's interesting to hear that most responses are based on SCORE or probability of a GOOD VS BAD shot.  

No comments on how the GCA affects your decision ala what type of shot does the green complex receive better?

I think the 10th at Riviera is a well known enough example to use here.  When I get to play the "Riv" I'm for sure hitting driver on 10.  But if I played it on a regular basis or in a stroke play tournament, I'm laying up all day to get to a yardage that will allow me to hit a low spin approach shot.

....and for those that say you might as well always hit driver and be further in trouble....If there is a bunker 280 yards from the tee...and you hit your driver 280...why not hit 3 wood and ELIMINATE the bunker.  Consider this.... If you hit a shot 30 Degrees offline your driver may find trouble on that line, where as a shorter club would not and stay in play...I like to call it Golf's Law of Dispersion... The longer the flight of the ball, the more likely it will find trouble.

[John McCarthy]

Joe; 

The best players in the world don't know how to play 10 at Riv.  I sure don't.   So I am heaving it up there and hoping for a good lie.   

[Amol Yajnik]

The OP asked about hitting driver on a shorter par 4 when you are playing a course for the first or second time.  If hitting a driver is going to leave me with less than a full wedge into a green, then I'm taking less than driver because I hate trying to hit partial shots with my wedges.  A pretty good shot with my driver is about 260 yards, so say that a hole is 320 yards.  My lob wedge is good for an 80 yard shot, so on a hole like that, I'll hit 3 wood and then probably have a sand wedge or lob wedge in.  Also, if there is trouble that I can easily reach with my driver but not reach with a shorter club, then less than driver is the play.  All of that said, it depends on how I'm feeling that day.  The only time I played Dormie Club, I hit a hybrid on #3 off of the tee, but then hit driver on #14 despite the chances of me driving the green was probably <5%.

FWIW, my scores have dropped this year by focusing on trying to get inside 150 yards off of the tee into the widest part of the fairway, whether that is 80 yards away from the green or 140 yards away from the green.

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