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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How low does your index need to be to ALWAYS break 100
« Reply #75 on: October 15, 2013, 10:28:35 AM »
By not posting scores when you didn't play "proper medal" in the US, you were in fact utilizing the system in a manner that benefited you relative other golfers.

The biggest benefit was finishing quicker.

I have no problem with the fact that a handicap is measured on the rounds that are played in the manner that the handicap is most commonly used in, casual matches.

I suspect a huge percentage if casual matches involve no official handicaps.

For all the shortcomings, I think the GHIN system is very good for it's most common use, applying shots on individual holes in matches among groups.  

Does this mean a large medal?

I think our system does a very good job of applying strokes in matches

Does it?  I hear bitching all the time between players who are not familiar with each other's game.  And when you know someone's game its dead easy to create your own handicapping system which is far more accurate.  

but I'd fear that the UK system would give a greater benefit to the higher handicap player in these "casual" matches.

A few years back the system changed to full handicap difference in singles.  I think many low cappers now feel the advantage has swung too far in favour of high cappers.  Giving away 12 shots rather than 9 is a huge difference.  

That said, our system is awful when trying to determine a "Low Net" for a rather large group of golfers.  If there are a group of 50 golfers, there are undoubtedly 2 - 3 people who "cheat" the system and have a huge advantage.  

Its very easy to cheat when casual rounds are used for handicapping.  Attesting scores is the bedrock of fair handicapping - that doesn't exist for a huge number of rounds in the US.  


By far my biggest problem with handicapping is when a guy can get more than 1 shot on a hole.  That is a load of nonsense.  Handicaps should work up to 18 and that is that.  Part of the problem is resolved by creating divisions, but I still find it horrible that a guy can claim a net par after a double bogie.  That is plain wrong.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How low does your index need to be to ALWAYS break 100
« Reply #76 on: October 15, 2013, 10:38:54 AM »
Andrew,

The handicap allowance in matchplay in the UK used to be 7/8 handicap difference in singles.  A study by CONGU showed that virtually all club matchplay competitions were won by relatively low habdicap golfers.  It has since been changed to full allowance for singles and a similar study shows that, on balance, the majority of matches are still won by low handicap players and that multiple round competitions still turn up low handicap winners.  Despite that, low handicappers still think the system is unfair!

In fourball better ball matchplay, we operate with a handicap allowance of 3/4 from the lowest player.  That is, in a match with one pair with handicaps of 6 and 10 and one with handicaps of 14 and 18 then the 10 handicapper will have 3 shots (3/4x(10-6)), the 14 handicapper 6 shots and the 18 handicapper 9 shots.  I understand from BUDA matches that in the US 4bbb matches are played with full allowance.  Given the nature of handicap golfers that is simply madness and it's no wonder that higher handicap players in 4bbb would have an advantage.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How low does your index need to be to ALWAYS break 100
« Reply #77 on: October 15, 2013, 10:43:07 AM »
I believe some UK&I courses have an allocated slope rating to enable US visitors to return their scores. Unable to recall any course names at the moment, probably the usual big-name suspects, but I've definitely seen slope-rating referred to on UK&I scorecards/websites.
ATB

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How low does your index need to be to ALWAYS break 100
« Reply #78 on: October 15, 2013, 10:44:55 AM »

By far my biggest problem with handicapping is when a guy can get more than 1 shot on a hole.  That is a load of nonsense.  Handicaps should work up to 18 and that is that.
Ciao


Given that the average handicap is 15 you're not even covering 2/3 of the golfing population...




Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How low does your index need to be to ALWAYS break 100
« Reply #79 on: October 15, 2013, 10:49:48 AM »
Here's rating and slope for Scottish courses:

http://www.popeofslope.com/scotland/courseratings.html
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How low does your index need to be to ALWAYS break 100
« Reply #80 on: October 15, 2013, 10:53:14 AM »

By far my biggest problem with handicapping is when a guy can get more than 1 shot on a hole.  That is a load of nonsense.  Handicaps should work up to 18 and that is that.
Ciao


Given that the average handicap is 15 you're not even covering 2/3 of the golfing population...

Thats life.  Guys can get better, play to an 18, not play in comps or stick with other very high cappers.  We already know that the higher we go on the scale the less accurate handicapping is.  What we have now is a ton of low cappers who won't play in handicapped events because they know the system is either rigged or guys cheat with fake high caps.  I don't know how many times I saw a 22 capper walk up to collect a prize with 44 points.  Like I say, its nonsense.

Ciao





New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How low does your index need to be to ALWAYS break 100
« Reply #81 on: October 15, 2013, 10:59:40 AM »
At my home course, Northumberland GC, a medal score of net 70 has an excellent chance of winning.  Anything below net 70 and you're EXTREMELY unlucky not to win.  Yet we have Stableford scores in the low to mid 40s on a regular basis in Stableford comps.  Go figure.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How low does your index need to be to ALWAYS break 100
« Reply #82 on: October 15, 2013, 12:40:21 PM »
Jose Coceres shot 104 in final qualifying for the 1998 Open at Royal Birkdale. I believe he was playing at Hillside and it was a filthsome day and serious credit to him for posting it and not copping out. He was on the European Tour for quite a long time. Bottom line is I'm not sure there is one where you can guarantee it.
Just spotted this point. I recall Jose Coceres being involved in a scorecard error and signing for a score of over 100. Perhaps is was this event. I think he wrote down his score for 9-holes in the space for the 18th hole score, or some similar oversight, and when the card was totalled it came to over over 100 and per the regulations of the day it couldn't be corrected. Guess there may have been a concentration issue involved as well! Jose Coceres was indeed on the European Tour for several years, won a couple of tournaments and then went to the US Tour where he won another couple of tournaments. A very handsy, wristy player I recall.

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